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RBS 6 Nations - England vs Wales - 25/02/2012, 16:00

Bad reposte;
All those players named all grew up in Wales; Tuilagi, Hartley, Barritt and Botha all have very tenuous links to England; if Tuilagi was to sign for a French club team, his inclusion in the England squad would look very silly. As for Barritt, he states on his RFU profile his parents are "Rhodesian" (an odd term to use in 2012) and he was born and brought up in South Africa; completely different situation to the Welsh players growing up as children in Wales.
Barritts Grandparents (only on one side, I think) are English, and if you're Rhodesian you can have an English passport anyway.
Matt Stevens has two English parents.
Dylan Hartley has an English parent.
Manu Tuilagi is as English as Tangaki Taulupe Faletau is Welsh.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
 
Actually I had no issues with the tackle, looked a decent one to me. He made the effort to wrap and its hard to do so at speed to a guy who is ducking out the way.
 
Barritts Grandparents (only on one side, I think) are English, and if you're Rhodesian you can have an English passport anyway.
Matt Stevens has two English parents.
Dylan Hartley has an English parent.
Manu Tuilagi is as English as Tangaki Taulupe Faletau is Welsh.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I make a tounge in cheek joke and now look what Ive done
<img style="-webkit-user-select: none" src="http://littlejunkies.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/monteiro_my_bad_500px.jpg?w=580">
 
Actually I had no issues with the tackle, looked a decent one to me. He made the effort to wrap and its hard to do so at speed to a guy who is ducking out the way.

Completely agreed, and I would like to stress again the word technical. I was not hurling brickbats, but musing slightly tongue in cheek on the fact that a good 20 seconds of play from everyone involved include two things that an eagle-eyed anal-retentive ref might have blew up on. The nature of rugby really. Let us move onto more important things, such as the need for all international rugby players to pass strict genetic purity tests before playing, all eugenics style yo ;)
 
Barritts Grandparents (only on one side, I think) are English, and if you're Rhodesian you can have an English passport anyway.
Matt Stevens has two English parents.
Dylan Hartley has an English parent.
Manu Tuilagi is as English as Tangaki Taulupe Faletau is Welsh.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

tumblr_lnml7k3bpj1qewyg3.jpg
 
Completely agreed, and I would like to stress again the word technical. I was not hurling brickbats, but musing slightly tongue in cheek on the fact that a good 20 seconds of play from everyone involved include two things that an eagle-eyed anal-retentive ref might have blew up on. The nature of rugby really. Let us move onto more important things, such as the need for all international rugby players to pass strict genetic purity tests before playing, all eugenics style yo ;)

I see you've got an English flag flying underneath your username...I'm going to have to ask you to mail your birth certificate and passport to TRF offices.
Also those of your grandparents, great grandparents, neighbours and y8 history teacher.
 
Barritts Grandparents (only on one side, I think) are English, and if you're Rhodesian you can have an English passport anyway.
Matt Stevens has two English parents.
Dylan Hartley has an English parent.
Manu Tuilagi is as English as Tangaki Taulupe Faletau is Welsh.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Notice the convenient ignoring of one Mouritz Botha;)
 
I see you've got an English flag flying underneath your username...I'm going to have to ask you to mail your birth certificate and passport to TRF offices.
Also those of your grandparents, great grandparents, neighbours and y8 history teacher.

I don't think I'd pass that test. :D
 
I see you've got an English flag flying underneath your username...I'm going to have to ask you to mail your birth certificate and passport to TRF offices.
Also those of your grandparents, great grandparents, neighbours and y8 history teacher.

I am afraid I'm going to have to require a full family tree for five generations with references from the College of Arms and security clearances from MI5 for all of them plus their milkmen and librarians before I can trust you with that information.

I am also reminded that my y8 history teacher was wankworthy and I think I might have found what I'm doing this game ends.
 
Barritts Grandparents (only on one side, I think) are English, and if you're Rhodesian you can have an English passport anyway.
Matt Stevens has two English parents.
Dylan Hartley has an English parent.
Manu Tuilagi is as English as Tangaki Taulupe Faletau is Welsh.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Notice the convenient ignoring of one Mouritz Botha;)

Lets be honest we got as many as 8 players not born in Wales and England have about 10 so its pretty even and they all qualify via parents, grand parents or residency.

England - Thomas Waldrom, Dylan Hartley from New Zealand, Alex Corbisiero from USA, Matt Stevens, Mouritz Botha, Brad Barritt from South Africa, Lee Dickson from Germany, Manu Tuilagi from Samoa, Charlie Sharples from Hong Kong (not sure how he qualifies prob residency).

Wales - George North, Alex Cuthbert, Dan Lydiate, Jon Davies, Aaron Shingler (injured - Luke Charteris) from England, Toby Faletau from Tonga and Ian Evans from South Africa.

So I think both teams got they scouting networks going for them.
 
If you pause it at just the right spot - and Beeb did inadvertantly - Halfpenny is on his knee with Croft's hand on his jersey, which is to the best of my knowledge all the law requires to execute the tackle, and Halfpenny shouldn't have got back to his feet. Of course, he did, he got away with it, Croft's momentum had taken him too far away to stop him from doing so, and I'd never blame the ref for not giving it - so, to reiterate the key word, technically. I'm not saying it should have been given as it was undiscernable to the human eye and I'd have been annoyed if it had been given against an England player, but technically with full video he got away with it. Similar to how technically you could have done Croft for not wrapping up but few refs ever would and rightly so.

Jesus, how anal do you wanna get? lets start a game show where all the international referees go up against each other -"Spot the offence". Referees can only call on the TMO for decisions on whether a try was scored or not, other than that they have to rely on their own and their touch judges ability to make a call. Technology isn't always for the better!
 
May and Sharples should be the new England wings, and drop Ashton too the bench so he realises he is replaceable ;)
 
Notice the convenient ignoring of one Mouritz Botha;)
Not really convenient, as I don't agree with him playing for England (as he's not good enough, really, and he isn't English).

Charlie Sharples from Hong Kong (not sure how he qualifies prob residency).
Sharples has two English parents, who were working in Hong Kong when he was born. Same with Dickson: Born in Germany as his Dad was based there in the army.
Good post though :D
 
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Perhaps North should have stepped aside and said "here you go Stret, Have 5 points on me!" Yea right! England were vastly improved on the previous two games but played to their full potential on the day,and they will continue to improve. Wales were awful (especially Plillips and Priestland) and played nowhere near their full potential, but still managed to pinch a win so we'll gratefully accept it.As for the ref, it was Steve Walsh! his middle name is "controversial", but that's 6 nations rugby for you.

So you condone cynical/unfair play if it supports your team? What North did was a yellow card offense. I think maybe you might have a different view if it were any other team.

But this was one negative aspect of an overall very exciting game, so I would rather not linger on it.
 
So you condone cynical/unfair play if it supports your team? What North did was a yellow card offense. I think maybe you might have a different view if it were any other team.

But besides this is one negative aspect of the game last night from a very exciting one overall, so I would rather not Linger on this point.

Ye and ...

What if Ashton / Strettle / Foden had done the same, would you be saying the same thing? I bet a good amount that you wouldn't have said anything. I'll await the response, yes I would have.

What some fail to see is that both the linesman and referee where watching from behind and definitely could not see that North had slapped the ball into touch and therefore be penalised.
 
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My thoughts in fuller detail, with less hungover/short-sighted vitriol.

Amazing game of rugby, you can't ask for a great deal more. If England had got over the line I would have been drunkenly telling all the Welsh guys on these boards how much I love them and how amazing they are, so it's very likely a good thing we didn't get there. I think Wales will need to step it up to another level to beat a more settled French team with more precision than England. This said, a Grand Slam in decider at the Millennium Stadium would probably see Wales as favourites.

I think the teams were fairly evenly matched on the day, although I do think a more settled backline could have seen England run in one or two tries. I don't think it's fair to say Wales didn't deserve something from the game bearing in mind they played away from home, and it was always going to be tough. A couple o really simple things impressed me in the game. I can't remember at exactly what time, but when England had a lineout near the halfway line, it was given to parling(possibly somebody else) in midfield, he was tackled, and at that point the speed at which Warburton got in there and won a penalty utterly boggled my mind. It was brilliant. Reminded me how little we see of that from England. Another thing was when Davies tackled Strettle( admittedly he knocked it on) chased him, got in position and won the penalty for strettle holding on. He was so composed and precise, I was really impressed.

Stevens, it turns out, doesn't just hemmorrage penalties when playing otu of position in the front row, he also gives away penalties on the floor, and despite the fact that the referee has been shouting at him to get his hands off/out. He must be completely brainless to give away such a penalty when the score, I think, was 12 - 9. I really don't think he has earned his continued presence in the 22. EPS, possibly yes. I'm sure this has been mentioned before but Paul Doran-Jones right now is a better bet. I can't comment on Nick Wood as I haven't seen much of him, but apparently he's playing his socks off. He's not young though, interested to hear what has changed and if nothing why he has never been mentioned as a possible England guy in the past.

I've rarely seen substitutes lose a game as successfully as ours did yesterday. Youngs is horse sh*t at present, and needs to lose a stone and a half. Simpson apparently did well against Sale on Friday but apart from that I can;t say that he's been in great form, with Nic Berry normally starting games with Simpson on the bench. Wishing Lancaster hadn't decided to rule out Care, he's the man for us right now.

I thought Lawes made a positive impact, shame about getting the ball taken from him like candy from a baby. Could have happened to anyone to be fair. Can't really remember anything of Webber, except that we won the lineout from his throw.

At this point I definitely have to admit to Dullonien that I was completely wrong about the front row. I said that Corbs Hartley and Cole were a trio who would never be dominated by any other front row, but I was proven wrong yesterday.

Ashton and Strettle both unconvincing. Strettlre did some good things but made at least one god-awful decision, when he tried to run the ball out of his 22, got tackled and pinged for not releasing. Also I just get this sense thatother wingers may have finished his try better. Not because he did anything specifically wrong, just because he's inherently limited? I don't know. Sharples deserves a start, Ashton needs to work hsi way back. I still don't think Foden is droppable. I eel Brown butchered slightly any space that Strettle had at the end there, although I know it's not fair to judge Brown on that basis alone. Johhny May would be good if he can worm his way up the pecking order. Barritt and Tuilagi were exceptional. Being able to tackle the latter is the exception rather than the rule, and if I knew how do those video avatar thingies I would have one of Tuilagi handing off Priestland as if he was some random child. I would watch that two second clip all day and foam at the mouth (presumably like Cyril does with his lovely avatar)

Farrell looks the business, pleasantly surprised me. I don't think Flood can be judged too much on his brief cameo. It was just that 5% extra precision in attack that could have made the difference, and which with further squad development will see us winning games again. But, it would be wrong to pretend that Wales don't deserve some credit for us not scoring (Warburton clinging on to Tuilagi's ankles springs to mind.
 
So you condone cynical/unfair play if it supports your team? What North did was a yellow card offense. I think maybe you might have a different view if it were any other team.

But this was one negative aspect of an overall very exciting game, so I would rather not linger on it.

I'd have knocked that ball out and taken the gamble we'd see the 10 mins out, or in this case get a line out rather than a certian try
 
I can't remember at exactly what time, but when England had a lineout near the halfway line, it was given to parling(possibly somebody else) in midfield, he was tackled, and at that point the speed at which Warburton got in there and won a penalty utterly boggled my mind.

Barritt.

At the risk of sounding begrudging, its pretty easy for an openside when a player charges straight into midfield without support.

Stevens, it turns out, doesn't just hemmorrage penalties when playing otu of position in the front row, he also gives away penalties on the floor, and despite the fact that the referee has been shouting at him to get his hands off/out. He must be completely brainless to give away such a penalty when the score, I think, was 12 - 9. I really don't think he has earned his continued presence in the 22. EPS, possibly yes. I'm sure this has been mentioned before but Paul Doran-Jones right now is a better bet. I can't comment on Nick Wood as I haven't seen much of him, but apparently he's playing his socks off. He's not young though, interested to hear what has changed and if nothing why he has never been mentioned as a possible England guy in the past.

In fairness to Stevens, I imagine most of us have had penalties given against us where the ref was apparently shouting at us to take hands off but we never heard him. It's not uncommon. He was imo well within his rights there to go for the ball. He won a turnover at the ruck a lot closer to our line when Wales were looking dangerous, he won the penno against Scotland that allowed Farrell to ease us a little bit ahead - there isn't a good ground player in the world who hasn't been penalised at some time or another while living on the line, it's the price you pay and I think its very unfair to have a major go at him over it. Am curious as to how many penalties he's given away at the scrum as well, its wobbled dangerously but I can't recall too many. I'd still probably drop him mind.

Wood is quality and its baffling he hasn't been picked before. The only logical explanation I can think of for why Nick Wood hasn't played for England is because he plays for Gloucester. The England hierarchy hate Gloucester players.
 
Ye and ...

What if Ashton / Strettle / Foden had done the same, would you be saying the same thing? I bet a good amount that you wouldn't have said anything. I'll await the response, yes I would have.

QUOTE]

Look I'm not quite sure why I have upset so many people here. The point I made is that it was disappointing North slapped the ball out of play. Accept it, that act is cynical and unfair and I would not condone that action, and some refs would yellow card that offense. Don't try to judge me saying I would say nothing if it were an English player, Im saying this now, and I don't like what North did. (Its OK to have a different opinion from me, EVERYBODY has different opinions, but you shouldn't judge and discredit my own opinion).

Ashton is one of my favorite players and yet I don't jump to his defense blindly when he commits mindless penalty offenses, swallow dives or plays crap for 4 games (and counting).

I mean for god sake that was one part of my original post and people don't let it go.</SPAN></SPAN>
 
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