RBS 6 Nations - England vs Wales - 25/02/2012, 16:00

[Taylo2]

After an evening of feeling quite gutted, I woke up today feeling positive about the future of English rugby. Despite the result, that was a great game of rugby...no doubt about that. It had a bit of everything, breaks, tackles, controversy....everything you could want from a top level rugby match.

Whether a try or not, and i think it was, the result should not discourage the England side. Wales are a good team, and for large parts of the game England were on top. A draw would probably been the fairer result overall, as Wales played some really good rugby too, and their try was well taken by Williams.

The critical moment for england seemed to be Farrell going off, once the substitutions started the momentum left England.

Disappointed with the final outcome, but what a game, and it gives the side hope for the future. Farrell, Barritt, Tuiliagi....worked really well for me. An in form Ben Youngs would be a great addition, but Dickinson did well for me. Botha got better as the first half went on, and Morgan had a good game. Croft is beginning to find a bit of form, he was everywhere yesterday.

As for Wales, what a side this generation could be. And trust me that is hard for me to say, having lived with 2 Welsh lads at uni who are like brothers to me, except when rugby is involved i didn't receive a gloating text this time round, so can only assume they either drank themselves into oblivion or they actually acknowledged Englands improvement. I like to think a mix of 2 maybe

Got to agree with Olly about Halfpenney, the lad is a player, a very important addition to the Welsh backline, complimenting the brute force of North and Cuthbert well. interesting to see how Wales do v France, but just like in Auckland, i'll be rooting for the boys in red, yet feel dirty while doing so

 

[Seaton]

THey moved about 5m forewords, where is the advantage?

Yes! Yes! Moan! Question! Berate!

Let me feed off your anger and annoyance!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Will comment more later today, but I definitely think you have to be careful about saying 'the sign of a good team is winning when not playing well'. It's true, and Wales deserve credit for always being in there when playing away from home. But the thing to remember really is that Wales were not in control of game, in the way that a great team playing poorly might be. The game literally could have swung either away. Let's be clear, this is not a welsh team that can win by playing poorly. It happened yesterday, but it won't always happen.

Also, this 'we won despite being uninspired' smacks of really now understanding the game that took place yesterday.If the other team turns up, plays well, arguably winning the collisions and nullifying the presence of the 'Welsh monsters', you have to admit that the other team is not allowing the other to be play to its full potential. It's hardly a case of 'we felt slightly uninspired'.

Don't get me wrong, I think the very fact of going away and winning against a good side shows that Wales are a good team, but in my humble opinion we saw yesterday that this wales team is not 'better in every position'. Far from it. I want to see Wales to continue to improve week on week as I think they will, but I don't want to hear that current ability exaggerated at every turn.

 

[TPenn]

Will comment more later today, but I definitely think you have to be careful about saying 'the sign of a good team is winning when not playing well'. It's true, and Wales deserve credit for always being in there when playing away from home. But the thing to remember really is that Wales were not in control of game, in the way that a great team playing poorly might be. The game literally could have swung either away. Let's be clear, this is not a welsh team that can win by playing poorly. It happened yesterday, but it won't always happen.

Also, this 'we won despite being uninspired' smacks of really now understanding the game that took place yesterday.If the other team turns up, plays well, arguably winning the collisions and nullifying the presence of the 'Welsh monsters', you have to admit that the other team is not allowing the other to be play to its full potential. It's hardly a case of 'we felt slightly uninspired'.

Don't get me wrong, I think the very fact of going away and winning against a good side shows that Wales are a good team, but in my humble opinion we saw yesterday that this wales team is not 'better in every position'. Far from it. I want to see Wales to continue to improve week on week as I think they will, but I don't want to hear that current ability exaggerated at every turn.

I see what you are saying, but as much as England did play well and dealt with the threat of the Welsh backline, they didn't have anything to do with Priestland having a shocker. He's a very good player and he is the one that gets the backline moving, but yesterday was his worst performance in a Welsh shirt. I think that had as much to do with the likes of North and Cuthbert being quiet as the English defence. Where England were good was in the way they identified Priestland as a weak link after the first 20 minutes and didn't let him settle and play his way into the game at all.

 

[Rhondda Rudie]

After an evening of feeling quite gutted, I woke up today feeling positive about the future of English rugby. Despite the result, that was a great game of rugby...no doubt about that. It had a bit of everything, breaks, tackles, controversy....everything you could want from a top level rugby match.

Whether a try or not, and i think it was, the result should not discourage the England side. Wales are a good team, and for large parts of the game England were on top. A draw would probably been the fairer result overall, as Wales played some really good rugby too, and their try was well taken by Williams.

The critical moment for england seemed to be Farrell going off, once the substitutions started the momentum left England.

Disappointed with the final outcome, but what a game, and it gives the side hope for the future. Farrell, Barritt, Tuiliagi....worked really well for me. An in form Ben Youngs would be a great addition, but Dickinson did well for me. Botha got better as the first half went on, and Morgan had a good game. Croft is beginning to find a bit of form, he was everywhere yesterday.

As for Wales, what a side this generation could be. And trust me that is hard for me to say, having lived with 2 Welsh lads at uni who are like brothers to me, except when rugby is involved i didn't receive a gloating text this time round, so can only assume they either drank themselves into oblivion or they actually acknowledged Englands improvement. I like to think a mix of 2 maybe

Got to agree with Olly about Halfpenney, the lad is a player, a very important addition to the Welsh backline, complimenting the brute force of North and Cuthbert well. interesting to see how Wales do v France, but just like in Auckland, i'll be rooting for the boys in red, yet feel dirty while doing so

Great post.

 

[TrueSlawter]

Disappointing that North deliberately slapped the ball out of play after the kick - lost a lot of respect for him after that. And were those 3/4(if you count the advantage the ref did'nt come back to) penalties on Wales line before the Strettle try not bordering on cynical play/penalty try?

Also Mike Brown put Strettle in an awful position for his disallowed try - he passed the ball to him immediately after receiving it, what ever happened to drawing the man and then passing .

I'm not going to say England should have won the game, but its promising to know we could have I spose.

I bet if you were playing in that game (or any other) in that situation you would've gone to hit it out in to touch.. If he went to grab it it would've beena 5m scrum to england as strettle would've tackled him, if he left it strettle should score from that situation etc.

 

[cyRil]

I am now sober and apologise for any comments that I may or may not have made last night.

 

[bushytop]

But the thing to remember really is that Wales were not in control of game, in the way that a great team playing poorly might be. The game literally could have p
swung either away. Let's be clear, this is not a welsh team that can win by playing poorly. It happened yesterday, but it won't always happen.

If they were in control of the game they wouldn't be playing poorly would they?

When we are talking about great sides playing poorly but grinding out results we refer to games such as RWC Final 2011. All blacks weren't in control but found a way to win. RWC South Africa vs Wales. SA were the worse team, lacked control yet found way to win. RWC 2003 QF England vs Wales, Wales controlled the game for 60 mins and were out playing a great England side (& eventual champions) but England found a way to close out the game.

England were brilliant yesterday yet this promising young Welsh outfit found a way when not at their best... a very good sign I'm sure you will agree.

 

[dullonien]

THey moved about 5m forewords, where is the advantage?

How far forwards would have been far enough? If they had moved 20m forwards into the 5th row of the stands, maybe then there would have been enough advantage. I'm not saying that this is what happens, but imo if a team has advantage and crosses the line but fails to score then the advantage should be over. I wouldn't have begrudged Walsh coming back for the advantage, but I don't think any ref should come back after a genuine try scoring attempt, because I don't understand how there could ever be more of an advantage than an opportunity at scoring a try. The amount of metres gained, or the length of time should have nothing to do with it. This is why I thought Walsh was correct here, maybe most ref's would have brought play back, but I'd prefer they didn't.

 

[j'nuh]

What a day for rugby. By the end of this game, I was exhausted. I've always felt more excited about the Wales-England fixture than any other one, international or club. There's a rivalry and, for the most part, a great deal of respect between the fans of both countries. It's for this reason that I really admire the Welsh team and want them to do well when England aren't playing them. Wales grand slam 2012? Yes please.

On England, I am over the moon. Getting results in this six nations would be ideal, but not important. Creating some kind of platform to build a team off of for the next 4 years was the main aim, and hopefully the bulk of this team will live up to the challenge.

The good: Parling has significantly boosted our options in a barren area for England. Barritt-Tuilagi is the beautiful center partnership that many have been calling for for ages - keep this going. Farrell has proven me wrong - even if he doesn't take the ball up to the line in contact as often as Burns does, Farrell has his own way of getting an attack going. The balance he had between kicking and passing was a good one. Strettle had a great game.

The bad: Youngs needs to disappear for a while. Croft gets through very little work (although he did much more yesterday than he has up until that point). Flood seems like he needs more time at club level to build up his confidence. Foden isn't playing anywhere near his ability level. Ashton isn't offering anything at the minute.

 

[Thingimubob]

Do find it funny that a few English fans are up in arms about this advantage thing (which I was too drunk/happy to notice yesterday ) when exactly the same situation helped them vs Scotland with Laidlaws no-try.

Cracking game anyway, a draw probably would've been a fair result, was very tense in the big hall in uni! Packed with fans from both countries (plus a few from the other 4 nations), such a good atmosphere! Scott Williams showed fantastic vision and finishing for his try, though I'm still ****** off with him for not passing the bloody ball!

Anyway, I am currently a very hungover, but happy man for some reason I have paint everywhere too...

 

[nadodrzak]

Great game. Great emotions. Great effort. Great result.

 

[Mogs999]

What a day for rugby. By the end of this game, I was exhausted. I've always felt more excited about the Wales-England fixture than any other one, international or club. There's a rivalry and, for the most part, a great deal of respect between the fans of both countries. It's for this reason that I really admire the Welsh team and want them to do well when England aren't playing them. Wales grand slam 2012? Yes please.

On England, I am over the moon. Getting results in this six nations would be ideal, but not important. Creating some kind of platform to build a team off of for the next 4 years was the main aim, and hopefully the bulk of this team will live up to the challenge.

The good: Parling has significantly boosted our options in a barren area for England. Barritt-Tuilagi is the beautiful center partnership that many have been calling for for ages - keep this going. Farrell has proven me wrong - even if he doesn't take the ball up to the line in contact as often as Burns does, Farrell has his own way of getting an attack going. The balance he had between kicking and passing was a good one. Strettle had a great game.

The bad: Youngs needs to disappear for a while. Croft gets through very little work (although he did much more yesterday than he has up until that point). Flood seems like he needs more time at club level to build up his confidence. Foden isn't playing anywhere near his ability level. Ashton isn't offering anything at the minute.

Hit the nail bang on the head there mate, i agree with everything you say. What IS wrong with Ashton these days ? he cant wait to offload, it's as if he's afraid of catching the pox off the damn ball!

 

[gmghughes]

Good reposte sir

Bad reposte;
All those players named all grew up in Wales; Tuilagi, Hartley, Barritt and Botha all have very tenuous links to England; if Tuilagi was to sign for a French club team, his inclusion in the England squad would look very silly. As for Barritt, he states on his RFU profile his parents are "Rhodesian" (an odd term to use in 2012) and he was born and brought up in South Africa; completely different situation to the Welsh players growing up as children in Wales.

 

[big ginger 8]

Bad reposte;
All those players named all grew up in Wales; Tuilagi, Hartley, Barritt and Botha all have very tenuous links to England; if Tuilagi was to sign for a French club team, his inclusion in the England squad would look very silly. As for Barritt, he states on his RFU profile his parents are "Rhodesian" (an odd term to use in 2012) and he was born and brought up in South Africa; completely different situation to the Welsh players growing up as children in Wales.

Do not start this **** for the millionth time.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Bad reposte;
All those players named all grew up in Wales; Tuilagi, Hartley, Barritt and Botha all have very tenuous links to England; if Tuilagi was to sign for a French club team, his inclusion in the England squad would look very silly. As for Barritt, he states on his RFU profile his parents are "Rhodesian" (an odd term to use in 2012) and he was born and brought up in South Africa; completely different situation to the Welsh players growing up as children in Wales.

Tuilagi grew up in England. Hartley has lived in England since he was 13 and has an English mother. As for the other, well I suppose you have a point there. But Tuilagi and Hartley are as English as anyone else in the squad.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Only watched the game now since I was busy finishing the Super15 weekend and NHL matches. I have to say I enjoyed this match. Wales was amazing defensively, especially during the sin-bin minutes of Priestland. Could have gone either way. Both teams deserved the win but in the end Wales managed to take this.

Gatland is building a team to go the distance. Chapeau!

 

[Peat]

Halfpenny, for me, is the most important of the Welsh backs atm.
He doesn't catch the eye smashing over people like Philips or North, but the amount of work he gets through, without looking phased (getting flattened by Robshaw, getting right back up and making 10m, for example) is immense.

Was Croft. Shame he hit him so hard he flew over him. Technically a penalty to both teams.

The bad: Youngs needs to disappear for a while. Croft gets through very little work (although he did much more yesterday than he has up until that point). Flood seems like he needs more time at club level to build up his confidence. Foden isn't playing anywhere near his ability level. Ashton isn't offering anything at the minute.

Puzzled you thought Croft gets through little work. Was rather busy for my money, although not as busy as Italy. Agree on Youngs (far worse than last week), Flood and Ashton. Although I reckon Flood will probably be in next week, and I'm not that fussed either way, I think training will cool his nerves.

Foden's in a difficult position, his kicking is mostly fine (one costly half-error aside), his defence is fairly sound - but he's doing bugger all in attack. But how can he if he has no support when counter-attacking against an organised chase (did well with what he could) and no one passes him the ball when he hits the line? Tuilagi is a fantastic machine but he's not good for the people outside him, which unfortunately includes Foden.

Either Farrell snr needs to be working with Tuilagi on straightening the line to fix his man and then pop/offload to Foden/blindside winger, or Foden/blindside winger need to be hitting the 10-12 gap to take it up (which will also stop opposition defences from thinking they can drift early). That will give them the ball to shine which right now they're simply not getting, and it's slightly harsh in my book to blame them for this. Or that's the way I see it.

 

[SelimNiai]

Was Croft. Shame he hit him so hard he flew over him. Technically a penalty to both teams.

How? If its for what I think you mean, Halfers wasn't held so was perfectly allowed to get up and carry on

 

[Peat]

How? If its for what I think you mean, Halfers wasn't held so was perfectly allowed to get up and carry on

If you pause it at just the right spot - and Beeb did inadvertantly - Halfpenny is on his knee with Croft's hand on his jersey, which is to the best of my knowledge all the law requires to execute the tackle, and Halfpenny shouldn't have got back to his feet. Of course, he did, he got away with it, Croft's momentum had taken him too far away to stop him from doing so, and I'd never blame the ref for not giving it - so, to reiterate the key word, technically. I'm not saying it should have been given as it was undiscernable to the human eye and I'd have been annoyed if it had been given against an England player, but technically with full video he got away with it. Similar to how technically you could have done Croft for not wrapping up but few refs ever would and rightly so.