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RaboDirect Pro12: Round 11/12

On another note I think Connacht have a great chance of taking the scalp of Munster at home in the next few hours. Think we've put out the stronger team overall and will take some beating in the sportsground, although Munster are a fair bit stronger in the bench obviously.

Connacht XV

15. Robbie Henshaw
14. Tiernan O'Halloran
13. Danie Poolman
12. Dave McSharry
11. Fetu'u Vainikolo
10. Dan Parks
9. Kieran Marmion

1. Brett Wilkinson
2. Jason Harris-Wright
3. Nathan White (captain)
4. George Naoupu
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Andrew Browne
7. Johnny O'Connor
8. Eoin McKeon

Replacements:
16. Ethienne Reynecke
17. Denis Buckley
18. Ronan Loughney
19. Michael Swift
20. Eoghan Grace
21. Paul O'Donohoe
22. Matthew Jarvis
23. Eoin Griffin



Munster:
D Hurley; J Murphy, C Laulala, J Downey, L O'Dea; I Keatley, P Stringer;
D Kilcoyne, M Sherry, S Archer; D O'Callaghan, B Holland; P Butler, T O'Donnell, J Coughlan capt.

Replacements: S Henry, W du Preez, BJ Botha, D Foley, S Dougall, D Williams, JJ Hanrahan, D Barnes.
 
Yeah think Connacht could well do it White vs Kilcoyne and O'Dea vs O'Hallorn will be interesting. Good to see Griffin, TO'D and Dougall involved for their respective teams.
 
Yeah think Connacht could well do it White vs Kilcoyne and O'Dea vs O'Hallorn will be interesting. Good to see Griffin, TO'D and Dougall involved for their respective teams.

Think you'd predict only one winner there with Wilkinson vs Archer on the other side. Surprised they didn't have Naoupu at the back, McKeon at 6 and Browne in the row though.

Think I'd bet on Connacht there. Plenty of dry powder for Munster in their next game alas...
 
Think you'd predict only one winner there with Wilkinson vs Archer on the other side. Surprised they didn't have Naoupu at the back, McKeon at 6 and Browne in the row though.

Think I'd bet on Connacht there. Plenty of dry powder for Munster in their next game alas...

Yeah of course the Munster scrum will probably be crap but still some information that can be gleamed from it.
 
Well, I didn't see the game, but the results over the past three weeks haven't surprised me. I'm not bitter any any means, and fair dues to Clermont and Ulster, but from a Leinster perspective we do have to acknowledge the fact that this team is reaching the end of a cycle.This is the first chance I've had to get a good long post out in a while, so I feel I should say a few things I've felt about Leinster over the past few months. At the end of last season most of us probably knew that we had reached our zenith. We'd been only the second team in the history of the Heineken Cup to achieve a two in a row and had done so playing some scintillating rugby along the way. I have more fond memories from the last four years than I could write about. The comeback against Northampton, the never say die refusal to get beaten against Montpellier away, the downing of Toulouse, Leicester, Clermont, Bath, Quins, Munster, and Ulster on our way to glory have been nothing short of a miracle and its been a privilege to witness.Going into the start of this season the signs that the team was at a serious juncture were all there to bee seen. While we still had a core of top class internationals a large part of the starting squad was also well into their thirties. The failure to find a serious top class lock was once again a problem, the back three looked pretty thin after the front liners, and the summer signings were less than stellar. A tough Heineken Cup draw meant that we would essentially need to be at full strength for the Clermont game, and hopefully for the two games beforehand too. Of course that's not how it turned out. When you've had a squad as long on the road as ours you're always likely to hit injury patches and this year our relative luck on that front ran out. Injury after injury to front line players made finding continuity in the early part of the season difficult, and left the guys seriously lacking match time for the big games in Europe. However it wasn't the big name losses that hurt the most in my mind. Usually when we start a season we can look to the likes of Nacewa, Strauss and Boss to lead the league campaign, ably abetted by Rhys Ruddock, Eoin O'Malley, Dom Ryan, Dave Kearney and some other serious talent bubbling just under the first fifteen. All but one of those guys were missing for large parts of the early season and the likes of HVDM and Leo Auva'a failed utterly to fill the leadership void left in their wake as a team of kids were thought some tough lessons, like away to Llanelli. It didn't help that our two more experience summer signings, Goodman and Bent, who would have been invaluable in those early months, were still plugging away at the ITM.In such a state we went into the Heineken Cup, and boy did it show. God knows how, but we came away with two wins from two after the opening weekend, have been utterly unimpressive. However, we were still hanging in there. Munster were beaten on the domestic front, and if we could build some continuity the season could still be very, very good. Alas, we lost Brian, Fitzgerald and O'Malley still were nowhere to be seen and Clermont were able to expose our lack of depth with two pretty impressive wins. Ulster, much improved on last season, were able to do the same this weekend. Bah!However, all isn't lost yet by any means. There's still a league campaign to fight for and a spot in the Amlin that we should try our hardest to get. Winning is a habit and one I'm not content with giving up. As I mentioned earlier we're at a critical point in terms of how competitive Leinster are to be over the next three or four seasons. There are some major areas we need to look at fixing over the summer and the next season. We've managed to get our hands on a top class lock, much needed. We should target another player in that department too. Ryan Caldwell is out of contract at the end of the season and his tenacity would do no harm whatsoever. Having a front five that's mean and nasty is no bad thing, and with Leo likely to be off in the summer we'll need all the help we can get in that department. Devin Toner clearly isn't up to it it pains me to say. Worth keeping around the squad? Possibly. But a luxury we can ill afford against a team with a decent scrum. Mark Flanagan remains a prospect, and I for one cannot wait to see him come back from injury in the new year. By the sounds of things he's bulked up considerably so he could be an asset. If we go into next season with McCathy, another high quality lock - be it Caldwell, Roux, or someone else, and what we have now minus Leo we should be set in that department. Anything else and it's still and area of concern we can ill afford.Loose head prop is now an issue we'll have to deal with. Our success over the past few years has been built on being able to bring different qualities and styles to different games as is required. Losing HVDM, as I believe we will, would be a huge loss, as I don't think Jack McGrath is ever likely to be a good enough player for the Heineken Cup. We may have to consider using an NIQ spot. Here. Similarly, we can ill afford to lose either of our hookers. Neither of them should have any real reason to go, but doubt remains over Cronin's future at the province. He's still a good way ahead of anything Munster would have in that department so a move back home may be appealing to him. I pray he stays.Scrum half too presents challenges. We've got two international class guys both coming up to the end of their careers. Their contrast in styles has been of huge value to Leinster over the past two or three years and they'll be tough to replace. Fortunately this is a department where I believe we have all the talent we need within the province. In McGrath and Cooney we have a 9 and replacement that would do for pretty much any team in Europe should be be able to maximize their potential. We've got to look at blooding the hell out of the pair of them over this season and the next, as McGrath in particular is one of the best talents we've seen in the province in years.Our centres too are an issue. We're not going to be able to replace Brian O'Driscoll and Gordon D'arcy over night, simple as. In O'Malley and McFadden we have a capable 12 -13 combination, but it's hardly stellar. I still hold out hope that wen Fitzgerald eventually makes it back he'll finally be given the run in the centre he deserves as that's where his best talents lie. Ian Madigan also has a lot of potential to be a very high quality 12, as the weaknesses in his game that are exposed at 10, namely his inability to manage a game, are less important inside. I do think we need an import here, someone like Richard Kahui would fit the bill perfectly. We should look to keep Goodman too.Finally, we should aim to get ourselves someone to cover the back three. If everyone is fit and available we're set in this department, but far too often over the past two seasons that hasn't been the case. Unfortunatley our hands may be somewhat tied by the IRFU here.So in summation, if we lose HVDM and Quinn Roux in the off season we'll have 3 of our 4 NIQ spots available. We need to plug a gap in the centres, find a winger, and probably bring in a new LHP. If we can do that, we should be set for the next two or three years while home grown talent gets a chance to grow up beside the imports. If not, we may not be competing at the very top for a while yet.The scrum half spot is
 
Yeah think Connacht could well do it White vs Kilcoyne and O'Dea vs O'Hallorn will be interesting. Good to see Griffin, TO'D and Dougall involved for their respective teams.
Yep, good young talents all of them. Really liking what I see from TO'D and Dougall so far this year. They've been good at the breakdown, always working hard hitting rucks and turning over ball, and O Donnell in particular has done some great ball carrying. O'Dea is another talented lad, its just a pity that he's not had the chance of more game time this year. Still it'll be good to see what he can do today.
 
Well, I didn't see the game, but the results over the past three weeks haven't surprised me. I'm not bitter any any means, and fair dues to Clermont and Ulster, but from a Leinster perspective we do have to acknowledge the fact that this team is reaching the end of a cycle.This is the first chance I've had to get a good long post out in a while, so I feel I should say a few things I've felt about Leinster over the past few months. At the end of last season most of us probably knew that we had reached our zenith. We'd been only the second team in the history of the Heineken Cup to achieve a two in a row and had done so playing some scintillating rugby along the way. I have more fond memories from the last four years than I could write about. The comeback against Northampton, the never say die refusal to get beaten against Montpellier away, the downing of Toulouse, Leicester, Clermont, Bath, Quins, Munster, and Ulster on our way to glory have been nothing short of a miracle and its been a privilege to witness.Going into the start of this season the signs that the team was at a serious juncture were all there to bee seen. While we still had a core of top class internationals a large part of the starting squad was also well into their thirties. The failure to find a serious top class lock was once again a problem, the back three looked pretty thin after the front liners, and the summer signings were less than stellar. A tough Heineken Cup draw meant that we would essentially need to be at full strength for the Clermont game, and hopefully for the two games beforehand too. Of course that's not how it turned out. When you've had a squad as long on the road as ours you're always likely to hit injury patches and this year our relative luck on that front ran out. Injury after injury to front line players made finding continuity in the early part of the season difficult, and left the guys seriously lacking match time for the big games in Europe. However it wasn't the big name losses that hurt the most in my mind. Usually when we start a season we can look to the likes of Nacewa, Strauss and Boss to lead the league campaign, ably abetted by Rhys Ruddock, Eoin O'Malley, Dom Ryan, Dave Kearney and some other serious talent bubbling just under the first fifteen. All but one of those guys were missing for large parts of the early season and the likes of HVDM and Leo Auva'a failed utterly to fill the leadership void left in their wake as a team of kids were thought some tough lessons, like away to Llanelli. It didn't help that our two more experience summer signings, Goodman and Bent, who would have been invaluable in those early months, were still plugging away at the ITM.In such a state we went into the Heineken Cup, and boy did it show. God knows how, but we came away with two wins from two after the opening weekend, have been utterly unimpressive. However, we were still hanging in there. Munster were beaten on the domestic front, and if we could build some continuity the season could still be very, very good. Alas, we lost Brian, Fitzgerald and O'Malley still were nowhere to be seen and Clermont were able to expose our lack of depth with two pretty impressive wins. Ulster, much improved on last season, were able to do the same this weekend. Bah!However, all isn't lost yet by any means. There's still a league campaign to fight for and a spot in the Amlin that we should try our hardest to get. Winning is a habit and one I'm not content with giving up. As I mentioned earlier we're at a critical point in terms of how competitive Leinster are to be over the next three or four seasons. There are some major areas we need to look at fixing over the summer and the next season. We've managed to get our hands on a top class lock, much needed. We should target another player in that department too. Ryan Caldwell is out of contract at the end of the season and his tenacity would do no harm whatsoever. Having a front five that's mean and nasty is no bad thing, and with Leo likely to be off in the summer we'll need all the help we can get in that department. Devin Toner clearly isn't up to it it pains me to say. Worth keeping around the squad? Possibly. But a luxury we can ill afford against a team with a decent scrum. Mark Flanagan remains a prospect, and I for one cannot wait to see him come back from injury in the new year. By the sounds of things he's bulked up considerably so he could be an asset. If we go into next season with McCathy, another high quality lock - be it Caldwell, Roux, or someone else, and what we have now minus Leo we should be set in that department. Anything else and it's still and area of concern we can ill afford.Loose head prop is now an issue we'll have to deal with. Our success over the past few years has been built on being able to bring different qualities and styles to different games as is required. Losing HVDM, as I believe we will, would be a huge loss, as I don't think Jack McGrath is ever likely to be a good enough player for the Heineken Cup. We may have to consider using an NIQ spot. Here. Similarly, we can ill afford to lose either of our hookers. Neither of them should have any real reason to go, but doubt remains over Cronin's future at the province. He's still a good way ahead of anything Munster would have in that department so a move back home may be appealing to him. I pray he stays.Scrum half too presents challenges. We've got two international class guys both coming up to the end of their careers. Their contrast in styles has been of huge value to Leinster over the past two or three years and they'll be tough to replace. Fortunately this is a department where I believe we have all the talent we need within the province. In McGrath and Cooney we have a 9 and replacement that would do for pretty much any team in Europe should be be able to maximize their potential. We've got to look at blooding the hell out of the pair of them over this season and the next, as McGrath in particular is one of the best talents we've seen in the province in years.Our centres too are an issue. We're not going to be able to replace Brian O'Driscoll and Gordon D'arcy over night, simple as. In O'Malley and McFadden we have a capable 12 -13 combination, but it's hardly stellar. I still hold out hope that wen Fitzgerald eventually makes it back he'll finally be given the run in the centre he deserves as that's where his best talents lie. Ian Madigan also has a lot of potential to be a very high quality 12, as the weaknesses in his game that are exposed at 10, namely his inability to manage a game, are less important inside. I do think we need an import here, someone like Richard Kahui would fit the bill perfectly. We should look to keep Goodman too.Finally, we should aim to get ourselves someone to cover the back three. If everyone is fit and available we're set in this department, but far too often over the past two seasons that hasn't been the case. Unfortunatley our hands may be somewhat tied by the IRFU here.So in summation, if we lose HVDM and Quinn Roux in the off season we'll have 3 of our 4 NIQ spots available. We need to plug a gap in the centres, find a winger, and probably bring in a new LHP. If we can do that, we should be set for the next two or three years while home grown talent gets a chance to grow up beside the imports. If not, we may not be competing at the very top for a while yet.The scrum half spot is

**** me man.... paragraphs!!
 
Well, I didn't see the game, but the results over the past three weeks haven't surprised me. I'm not bitter any any means, and fair dues to Clermont and Ulster, but from a Leinster perspective we do have to acknowledge the fact that this team is reaching the end of a cycle.This is the first chance I've had to get a good long post out in a while, so I feel I should say a few things I've felt about Leinster over the past few months. At the end of last season most of us probably knew that we had reached our zenith. We'd been only the second team in the history of the Heineken Cup to achieve a two in a row and had done so playing some scintillating rugby along the way. I have more fond memories from the last four years than I could write about. The comeback against Northampton, the never say die refusal to get beaten against Montpellier away, the downing of Toulouse, Leicester, Clermont, Bath, Quins, Munster, and Ulster on our way to glory have been nothing short of a miracle and its been a privilege to witness.Going into the start of this season the signs that the team was at a serious juncture were all there to bee seen. While we still had a core of top class internationals a large part of the starting squad was also well into their thirties. The failure to find a serious top class lock was once again a problem, the back three looked pretty thin after the front liners, and the summer signings were less than stellar. A tough Heineken Cup draw meant that we would essentially need to be at full strength for the Clermont game, and hopefully for the two games beforehand too. Of course that's not how it turned out. When you've had a squad as long on the road as ours you're always likely to hit injury patches and this year our relative luck on that front ran out. Injury after injury to front line players made finding continuity in the early part of the season difficult, and left the guys seriously lacking match time for the big games in Europe. However it wasn't the big name losses that hurt the most in my mind. Usually when we start a season we can look to the likes of Nacewa, Strauss and Boss to lead the league campaign, ably abetted by Rhys Ruddock, Eoin O'Malley, Dom Ryan, Dave Kearney and some other serious talent bubbling just under the first fifteen. All but one of those guys were missing for large parts of the early season and the likes of HVDM and Leo Auva'a failed utterly to fill the leadership void left in their wake as a team of kids were thought some tough lessons, like away to Llanelli. It didn't help that our two more experience summer signings, Goodman and Bent, who would have been invaluable in those early months, were still plugging away at the ITM.In such a state we went into the Heineken Cup, and boy did it show. God knows how, but we came away with two wins from two after the opening weekend, have been utterly unimpressive. However, we were still hanging in there. Munster were beaten on the domestic front, and if we could build some continuity the season could still be very, very good. Alas, we lost Brian, Fitzgerald and O'Malley still were nowhere to be seen and Clermont were able to expose our lack of depth with two pretty impressive wins. Ulster, much improved on last season, were able to do the same this weekend. Bah!However, all isn't lost yet by any means. There's still a league campaign to fight for and a spot in the Amlin that we should try our hardest to get. Winning is a habit and one I'm not content with giving up. As I mentioned earlier we're at a critical point in terms of how competitive Leinster are to be over the next three or four seasons. There are some major areas we need to look at fixing over the summer and the next season. We've managed to get our hands on a top class lock, much needed. We should target another player in that department too. Ryan Caldwell is out of contract at the end of the season and his tenacity would do no harm whatsoever. Having a front five that's mean and nasty is no bad thing, and with Leo likely to be off in the summer we'll need all the help we can get in that department. Devin Toner clearly isn't up to it it pains me to say. Worth keeping around the squad? Possibly. But a luxury we can ill afford against a team with a decent scrum. Mark Flanagan remains a prospect, and I for one cannot wait to see him come back from injury in the new year. By the sounds of things he's bulked up considerably so he could be an asset. If we go into next season with McCathy, another high quality lock - be it Caldwell, Roux, or someone else, and what we have now minus Leo we should be set in that department. Anything else and it's still and area of concern we can ill afford.Loose head prop is now an issue we'll have to deal with. Our success over the past few years has been built on being able to bring different qualities and styles to different games as is required. Losing HVDM, as I believe we will, would be a huge loss, as I don't think Jack McGrath is ever likely to be a good enough player for the Heineken Cup. We may have to consider using an NIQ spot. Here. Similarly, we can ill afford to lose either of our hookers. Neither of them should have any real reason to go, but doubt remains over Cronin's future at the province. He's still a good way ahead of anything Munster would have in that department so a move back home may be appealing to him. I pray he stays.Scrum half too presents challenges. We've got two international class guys both coming up to the end of their careers. Their contrast in styles has been of huge value to Leinster over the past two or three years and they'll be tough to replace. Fortunately this is a department where I believe we have all the talent we need within the province. In McGrath and Cooney we have a 9 and replacement that would do for pretty much any team in Europe should be be able to maximize their potential. We've got to look at blooding the hell out of the pair of them over this season and the next, as McGrath in particular is one of the best talents we've seen in the province in years.Our centres too are an issue. We're not going to be able to replace Brian O'Driscoll and Gordon D'arcy over night, simple as. In O'Malley and McFadden we have a capable 12 -13 combination, but it's hardly stellar. I still hold out hope that wen Fitzgerald eventually makes it back he'll finally be given the run in the centre he deserves as that's where his best talents lie. Ian Madigan also has a lot of potential to be a very high quality 12, as the weaknesses in his game that are exposed at 10, namely his inability to manage a game, are less important inside. I do think we need an import here, someone like Richard Kahui would fit the bill perfectly. We should look to keep Goodman too.Finally, we should aim to get ourselves someone to cover the back three. If everyone is fit and available we're set in this department, but far too often over the past two seasons that hasn't been the case. Unfortunatley our hands may be somewhat tied by the IRFU here.So in summation, if we lose HVDM and Quinn Roux in the off season we'll have 3 of our 4 NIQ spots available. We need to plug a gap in the centres, find a winger, and probably bring in a new LHP. If we can do that, we should be set for the next two or three years while home grown talent gets a chance to grow up beside the imports. If not, we may not be competing at the very top for a while yet.The scrum half spot is
Caldwell has signed a contract extension with Bath, so he's out of the running with Leinster

http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2012-13/rugby/story/174813.html

Id to see Roux sign another contract with Leinster next season, but not sure how likely that is considering that his first one went disastrously.
 
Hmmm, I don't know why it got rid of them. I did format it, I swear.

Could be your post was too long - I noticed you ended mid-sentence "The scrum half spot is..."

[or rather, I guess it cut you off mid-sentence]
 
Sheer madness to write Healy off at the moment, as mad as it is to think of front rows in terms of A > B > C > D etc... in my view Healy has all the ability to be 1/3 of a dominant Lions front row, come the tour. He'd be my first choice, because whilst I think Corbisiero is a better scrummager and is 'busy' in the loose, Healy has put forward a big case over the last few months and years for the strength of his all-round game. In particular I'd say that it's no longer so important to make sure that your starting front row is the very best scrummaging one possible without considering the tradeoffs, since we now get 4 props in our match day squad, giving us plenty of opportunity to make all the changes we want.

I have to say though, Ulsterfan2012, the first choice Irish front row got pretty much dominated that day...

...then Court came on and it was demolished. I don't think its fair to re-write the history as all Tom Court's fault...
 
Healy at the moment is probably in pole position for the Lions shirt. He has been in good form. If he carries on then it will be tough not to select him.
 
Match worth watching? How did strings play I was expecting him to be big this season after a great end of season with Newcastle.. frankly he has just been disappointing...
 
Sheer madness to write Healy off at the moment, as mad as it is to think of front rows in terms of A > B > C > D etc... in my view Healy has all the ability to be 1/3 of a dominant Lions front row, come the tour. He'd be my first choice, because whilst I think Corbisiero is a better scrummager and is 'busy' in the loose, Healy has put forward a big case over the last few months and years for the strength of his all-round game. In particular I'd say that it's no longer so important to make sure that your starting front row is the very best scrummaging one possible without considering the tradeoffs, since we now get 4 props in our match day squad, giving us plenty of opportunity to make all the changes we want.

I have to say though, Ulsterfan2012, the first choice Irish front row got pretty much dominated that day...

...then Court came on and it was demolished. I don't think its fair to re-write the history as all Tom Court's fault...

Ireland were demolished that day bu it was clear that Ross was playing hurt as well, there's no point basing anything on the 2012 6n, it'd be better to wait for 2013 and the Hcup so far this year.
 
Sheer madness to write Healy off at the moment, as mad as it is to think of front rows in terms of A > B > C > D etc... in my view Healy has all the ability to be 1/3 of a dominant Lions front row, come the tour. He'd be my first choice, because whilst I think Corbisiero is a better scrummager and is 'busy' in the loose, Healy has put forward a big case over the last few months and years for the strength of his all-round game. In particular I'd say that it's no longer so important to make sure that your starting front row is the very best scrummaging one possible without considering the tradeoffs, since we now get 4 props in our match day squad, giving us plenty of opportunity to make all the changes we want.

I have to say though, Ulsterfan2012, the first choice Irish front row got pretty much dominated that day...

...then Court came on and it was demolished. I don't think its fair to re-write the history as all Tom Court's fault...

You had the upper hand when Ross was still on, but not anywhere near to the extent when Court came on.

Its not Courts fault - he's a loose head, it's Kidneys fault not having a replacement. Any team that had a loose head playing tight head would be screwed. If you want to think you would have got just as many penalties if Ross was still on, you can go for it.
 
You had the upper hand when Ross was still on, but not anywhere near to the extent when Court came on.

Its not Courts fault - he's a loose head, it's Kidneys fault not having a replacement. Any team that had a loose head playing tight head would be screwed. If you want to think you would have got just as many penalties if Ross was still on, you can go for it.

Ross as he was that day? Sure we would. Ross on a normal day? Hmm, probably not.

Can't really blame Kidney for only having one sub on the bench in the day of the 7 man bench though, was standard practice, and although Court routinely wobbles at tighthead he was still the only thing remotely close to an ambi-propterous IQ player at that time. You can blame him for how little real international experience he had though, or the times Buckley was played at tighthead he could have given Court some practice there with no worse effects.
 
Every time Hewitt and Evans play together, Tom Shanklin has to be interviewed on camera.
 
Turks look powerless. Getting absolutely crushed in the scrum, dominated.
 

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