RaboDirect Pro12: Round 11/12

[Draggs]

I'd genuinely be interested to know who advised/convinced the Cardiff Blues/Dragons that Campese Ma'afu and Tim Ryan would be good signings.

Can I blame the Scarlets or Robert Howley?

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Teams for the Munster - Ulster clash. RaboDirect PRO12, Thomond Park, Sat 29th December, 5.30pm:
Ulster
(15-9): A D'Arcy, C Cochrane, M Allen, L Marshall, C Gilroy; N O'Connor, P Marshall;
(1-8): C Black, R Herring, A Macklin, L Stevenson, N McComb, R Diack, M McComish, R Wilson;
Replacements (16-23): N Annett, R Lutton, T Court, A O'Connor, A Birch, M Heaney, S Olding, R Andrew.

Munster
(15-9): D Hurley; D Howlett capt, C Laulala, J Downey, S Zebo; I Keatley, C Murray;
(1-8): W du Preez, D Varley, BJ Botha; D O'Callaghan, B Holland; P O'Mahony, T O'Donnell, P Butler.
Replacements (16-23): M Sherry, M Horan, S Archer, Dave O'Callaghan, J Coughlan, P Stringer, R O'Gara, F Jones.


Predicting 32-19 to Munster unfortunately. I thinks it the right call to be resting the NIQ players though.

 

[Tony Manx]

Teams for the Munster - Ulster clash. RaboDirect PRO12, Thomond Park, Sat 29th December, 5.30pm:
Ulster
(15-9): A D'Arcy, C Cochrane, M Allen, L Marshall, C Gilroy; N O'Connor, P Marshall;
(1-8): C Black, R Herring, A Macklin, L Stevenson, N McComb, R Diack, M McComish, R Wilson;
Replacements (16-23): N Annett, R Lutton, T Court, A O'Connor, A Birch, M Heaney, S Olding, R Andrew.

Munster
(15-9): D Hurley; D Howlett capt, C Laulala, J Downey, S Zebo; I Keatley, C Murray;
(1-8): W du Preez, D Varley, BJ Botha; D O'Callaghan, B Holland; P O'Mahony, T O'Donnell, P Butler.
Replacements (16-23): M Sherry, M Horan, S Archer, Dave O'Callaghan, J Coughlan, P Stringer, R O'Gara, F Jones.


Predicting 32-19 to Munster unfortunately. I thinks it the right call to be resting the NIQ players though.

That does not look like a very strong Ulster team against a pretty good Munster one?

 

[coonor]

That does not look like a very strong Ulster team against a pretty good Munster one?

Yeah it's quite contrasting teams. Ulster have rightly picked a young, under strength team. This is not a must win game but it's great totest some fringe players. Even at this stage this top league position is Ulster's to lose!

 

[Peat]

That does not look like a very strong Ulster team against a pretty good Munster one?

About the size of it.

Due to Irish player management, pretty much all the internationals could play only one of these two rounds - there's a few exceptions like Gilroy who hadn't registered many starts prior to this - Munster rested their guys to visit Connacht while we went full bore on Leinster, so almost all of our internationals while out while all theirs are back. Can't be helped. Resting the NIQs doesn't help either admittedly - but Muller's injured, Pienaar's been playing for about 2 years solid without a real break, Afoa's played a lot of 80 minutes this season; Payne and Williams might have played, but I heard someone say Payne is injured, while I believe Williams isn't at full fitness either. So there we go.

As coonor points out, it doesn't really matter, Ulster are enough clear to throw this game away. That said, its not too far off being a team to give most a challenge - 3, 7 and 10 are the only real weak spots to me, and all of them can perform.

 

[Amiga500]

That does not look like a very strong Ulster team against a pretty good Munster one?

Hmmm. Definitely second string - but 2nd string Ulster 2012/2013 is very different from 2nd string Ulster 2011/2012.


I wouldn't be writing this one off as a straightforward Munster win just yet.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Hmmm. Definitely second string - but 2nd string Ulster 2012/2013 is very different from 2nd string Ulster 2011/2012.


I wouldn't be writing this one off as a straightforward Munster win just yet.

Oh I dunno about that. There are still a lot of average players in there, let's not be deluding ourselves about that. I'd expect a relatively straightforward Munster victory to be honest.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Hmmm. Definitely second string - but 2nd string Ulster 2012/2013 is very different from 2nd string Ulster 2011/2012.


I wouldn't be writing this one off as a straightforward Munster win just yet.

If it was at Ravenhill then yes, I would agree.
But this is in Thomond, and I was going from 1-15 comparing both teams in each position - and to be honest we're very outmatched in more than a few positions.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Oh I dunno about that. There are still a lot of average players in there, let's not be deluding ourselves about that. I'd expect a relatively straightforward Munster victory to be honest.

An ideal second string Ulster would be:

1: Black
2: Herring
3: Fitzpatrick
4: Stevenson
5: McComb
6: Henderson
7: Diack
8: Williams
9: Marshall
10: O'Connor
11: Gilroy
12: Marshall
13: Farrell
14: Allen
14: D'arcy


I think that is considerably better than what we had last year. But I do agree its still not enough to come close to Munster.

 

[Feicarsinn]

An ideal second string Ulster would be:

1: Black
2: Herring
3: Fitzpatrick
4: Stevenson
5: McComb
6: Henderson
7: Diack
8: Williams
9: Marshall
10: O'Connor
11: Gilroy
12: Marshall
13: Farrell
14: Allen
14: D'arcy


I think that is considerably better than what we had last year. But I do agree its still not enough to come close to Munster.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that front five was in place last season, as was most of the back line. Admittedly bringing in Henderson is a big improvement, and Farrell and Allen look like players, but I don't know if it's spectacularly better. The main difference is the fat that they're playing with an awful lot of confidence.

 

[Amiga500]

Oh I dunno about that. There are still a lot of average players in there, let's not be deluding ourselves about that. I'd expect a relatively straightforward Munster victory to be honest.

I feel the first choice Munster side has more than a few average-to-fair players.

Hurley, Downey, Keatley, Murray, du Preez, Varley, Botha, Holland, Butler... none of them are what I would consider much above "good". O'Mahony, O'Donnell and Butler have potential, but they are a long way short of the finished article.


I particularly consider their pack relatively weak*. Their scrum is poor, Botha is very over-rated in this respect I think. Black and Herring are very good scrummagers, the unknown being Macklin. If he gets the measure of du Preez, we can win, no doubt about it.


*its a long, long, long way short of the "monster pack" that sported Flannery, O'Connell, Wallace, Quinlan and Leamy.


I'm usually the most pessimistic of feckers when it comes to gametime - but I'm not scared of that Munster pack. If Macklin and O'Connor perform, I have absolutely no doubt we can win - and win by playing "Axel-ball" no less.


Just on the head-to-head. (Obviously its only my opinion, which is there to be shot at!:lol

Hurley - D'Arcy: Tie - neither standout.
Howlett - Cochrane: Howlett, every day.
Laulala - Allen: On the basis of reputation, Laulala, but I think many may be surprised.
Downey - L Marshall: Marshall can do pretty much all Downey can do, but has more footballing about him.
Zebo - Gilroy: Tie - this could be good to watch.
Keatley - O'Connor: Keatley... if he performs.
Murray - P Marshall: Marshall... unless he starts the brain-farts.

Butler - Wilson: Wilson
O'Donnell - McComish: Hard to call.
O'Mahony - Diack: Diack. I would imagine many from the south are currently wondering WTF?!? You'll see why in a few hours.
Holland - McComb: Tie.
O'Callaghan - Stevenson: DOC may have a slightly better lineout, but Stevenson is a beast around the park - the better player would depend on how the game is played.
Botha - Macklin: Botha, you have to, he has a much wiser head on him. Big day for AM.
Varley - Herring: Herring has a better lineout than Rory Best. Not quite the same dynamic influence around the pitch though - Varley is another solid player. For me, its too close to call.
du Preez - Black: Black in the scrum, not sure in the loose.


4 for Munster, 5 for Ulster, 6 ties/not-sure. Worthy of note is that 3 of Munsters 4 are in the backline, which may or may not see the ball depending on how the forwards go.

 

[Amiga500]

It should be noted that my undue optimism probably means we're gonna get fekkin tanked!! :lol::blush:

 

[Peat]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that front five was in place last season, as was most of the back line. Admittedly bringing in Henderson is a big improvement, and Farrell and Allen look like players, but I don't know if it's spectacularly better. The main difference is the fat that they're playing with an awful lot of confidence.

You're wrong, Rob Herring wasn't here last season and he looks a step up on Brady at their comparative points of career.

I am a great deal more confident in a lot of those players, a lot of them have really responded to what the Cowboy is saying and doing - Black, both locks and Diack especially. I think a lot of them are just better players now, although maybe its confidence. Williams is also obviously an improvement over our previous second choice 8 who was... probably the pussy version of Diack actually.

Amiga is definitely unduly optimistic here but for me this is definitely a stronger 2nd XV than last year.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Fitzpatrick has since then played against the All-Blacks, and held up in the scrum. Herring is a big step-up from Brady. Blacks scrummaging has improved by a huge amount, and you saw that from the Leinster game. McComb is nothing special, but he can do the job.
Henderson has been a revelation, so has Allen. Gilroy now has experienced international rugby, but it is unfortunate that Farrell has been injured. Williams, Diack and Henderson is a very good second choice backrow, I'd be happy even if they were picked for the starting team.

Only an addition of 4 or 5 new players, but they've improved massively to the point that any of them (probably the exception of O'Connor) would start for the 1st XV and I wouldn't really mind.

 

[Irishflanker]

Hi, I know it's a bit late for this, but my attention was directed to this just a short while ago; while I don't see it happening, if any Munster fans from here are at the match I'd encourage you to try and be a part of this it seems kind of cool (copied from another site!): Hi everyone,

I've come to ask for your help...

Early in the second half of the match today, I'm going to start shouting 'We are' from the West stand and what I need is a few people in the East stand to reply 'Munster' (North and South could do both)
At the risk of looking like a clown, I'll give it 5-10 iterations at the top of my lungs and I can ony hope I'll get a bit of back up (Both with the 'We are' and the 'Munster' response). I believe if we can get a few people at it, it will catch on very very quickly.

Thanks in advance to anyone who'll help

 

[Amiga500]

First scrum went backwards - lifted on Macklin's side... ominous.

 

[Amiga500]

Niall O'Connor's first kick from hand is crap... more ominous stuff! :mellow:

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Did anyone see Allen bounce Howlett?! What a beast!

 

[Amiga500]

Better scrum.... but NOC screws a penalty badly wide.

Pack is starting to show signs of providing a decent platform to work off though.

 

[Peat]

Oh O'Connor. Why must you try me so?