Potential Squads for RWC 2015

[big ginger 8]

Made a few changes.

OK I can't see any changes but OK.

 

[Draggs]

OK I can't see any changes but OK.

Midfield and outside half.

 

[big ginger 8]

Midfield and outside half.

Ah ok so used to seeing there m=names I guess. If Kidney is gone as I pray for O'Gara will definitely be gone from anywhere near the squad. BO'D actually has slightly hinted at still playing around then. Of course it's unlikely but I'll never say never when it comes to BO'D.

 

[Peat]

The TH lock is certainly becoming something of a prized possession. We've certainly had a tough enough time finding any over the past two seasons. By all accounts the branch was looking for a top class international, yet the best they could do was Quinn Roux, a pretty much unheard of South African kid.

Very true. The media don't seem to have clocked it yet though.

 

[big ginger 8]

Very true. The media don't seem to have clocked it yet though.

A few seem to have here but it doesn't get a huge mention. I think mainly because of Thorn and Leinster looking for one that it's been brought up a few times.

 

[Darwin]

The TH lock is certainly becoming something of a prized possession. We've certainly had a tough enough time finding any over the past two seasons. By all accounts the branch was looking for a top class international, yet the best they could do was Quinn Roux, a pretty much unheard of South African kid.

I definitely agree with that too. I'm amazed how many people don't realize how crucial a quality TH lock is.

Wrong? A couple of months is not a "Wrong". Its not 3 years. Botha played one and half a game. Other oldies were subbed off regularly.

:lol: You tried to correct me about the ages of the players (by stating they were all 31 when they were clearly not) - therefore you were clearly wrong. If you are going to try to correct someone make sure you have your facts right

Nonu started off on the wing and then came into OC and IC.

As has been pointed out already, this is completely incorrect. As nick points out he has always been a midfield back - he he just played the odd game for the Canes on the wing to accommodate Umaga and Smith.

But him not being good enough at 33 in 2015 is my opinion. Yours is that he would be still good enough. Neither of us is wrong as none of us can predict the future. But with Kahui, Ellison and a maybe SBW in the ranks its hard for him to be anything than a experience bench warmer in that tournament.

You are entitled to your opinion. I'm just saying that being 33 is far from being 'too old' to play in the RWC (as at the last RWC every team had at least one player 33 or older!). The fact is we don't actually have any obvious replacements for Nonu at this stage - SBW is very unlikely to be there, Ellison isn't exactly young (you do realize he less than a year younger than Nonu?), has only just broken into the All Blacks, and is far more comfortable at 13 than 12. Nonu has been playing the best rugby of his career on the international stage over the last 2-3 years (he was nominated for IRB player of the year last season), and is still the premier 12 in world rugby in my opinion, and I don't see that changing any time soon....

 

[Shovenose]

You've lost me. The point was that his prefered position has never been in the outside backs (and he wasn't a regular first team starter till 2008 for the All Blacks). Tana Umaga made the move to centre from the wing at the end of 2000 (during the November internationals, three years before Nonu made his debut for the All Blacks). If you look at every test Nonu has played:



There, I've made it easy for you to understand. As you can see, Ma'a Nonu has only played six times for the All Blacks on the wing since his career began and all of them have been him coming off the bench. He's never started on the wing for the All Blacks. The reason why he has been used there is because Tana Umaga and Conrad Smith have been the two first choice centres for most of his career and before 2008 Daniel Carter, Aaron Mauger and Luke McAlister were often preferred at inside centre, so many of his apparences had to come from the bench (thus why he occasionally played on the wing)

For the Hurricanes it was much of the same. Tana Umaga moved to inside centre as he was starting to slow down a little to make way for Conrad Smith and Ma'a Nonu (who at the time was primarily a centre). Because you can't have two players playing centre, Nonu was put on the wing as he was a more capable winger than Smith. When Umaga eventually left after the 2006 Super 14 season Ma'a Nonu was moved to Inside Centre.

This reply took too much time.

You could have just clicked on the link I provided it shows his career and positions as well. So let me see. He was picked at wing for the Hurricanes because Umaga and Smith were there yet he played in tests as centers. Where was Smith then? He was used more as a stop gap until 2008 as his career went in and out. But he played for the Hurricanes first not for NZ. And he started on the wing for them. When did Tana retire btw?

But like I said its just our own opinions. I believe by 2015 he won't be the Nonu like we use to know and will be out of favor. Especially when you got bundles of guys knocking on the door and is already better than him on current form.

 

[Darwin]

You could have just clicked on the link I provided it shows his career and positions as well. So let me see. He was picked at wing for the Hurricanes because Umaga and Smith were there yet he played in tests as centers. Where was Smith then? He was used more as a stop gap until 2008 as his career went in and out. But he played for the Hurricanes first not for NZ. And he started on the wing for them. When did Tana retire btw?

Yes. Smith didn't break into the AB's till the end of 2004.

It is correct that Nonu played for the Hurricanes first not for NZ (not sure what that statement was). Nonu spent almost his entire first seasons (2003 and 2004) at the Hurricanes at centre, because he has always been a centre. When Conrad Smith broke into the team in 2005, Nonu was switched to the wing for most of 2006 season to accommodate Smith. Playing a single season on the wing does not mean he was ever a wing - anyone who has followed NZ rugby closely would know that

But like I said its just our own opinions. I believe by 2015 he won't be the Nonu like we use to know and will be out of favor. Especially when you got bundles of guys knocking on the door and is already better than him on current form.

As has already been pointed out (but ignored by you) there aren't bundles of guys knocking on the door - indeed 12 is one of the few positions where we only have a single genuine test option (Nonu), and no obvious replacement. As already mentioned Nonu has been in superb form internationaly over the last 3-4, and there clearly isn't anyone better than him on current form. You are fully entitled to believe that Nnou won't make it to the next RWC, but currently there is Nonu then daylight in terms of AB's 12 options.....

 

[RWC2011Fan]

Do you guys reckon wingers like Tommy Bowe and Bryan Habana are still going to be up for the job at 32/33 or will they have lost too much pace?

 

[Darwin]

Do you guys reckon wingers like Tommy Bowe and Bryan Habana are still going to be up for the job at 32/33 or will they have lost too much pace?

It is hard to tell with wings - some perform at a high level into their 30's (e.g. Shane Williams), while others drop off in their late 20's (e.g. Joe Rokocoko). Though some players do lose a bit of pace when they enter their 30's, I think this drop-off is exaggerated in many cases. Top class wings will be able to compensate for any loss of pace with other attributes they have picked up over the years - in particular the ability to be in the right place at the right time.

Onto the question at hand: I'm far from an expert on Ireland or South African rugby, but I'd guess Bowe will still be around, but I wouldn't be to sure on Habana. Bowe is easily the best right wing in Ireland in my opinion, and his game doesn't solely revolve around pace - I wouldn't have thought he was particularly quick for a wing (maybe I'm just thinking of he RWC where James O'Connor caught him from 10m+ behind...), though I could be wrong . I'm not convinced about Habana on the other hand. His game does revolve a bit more around pure pace, and many have questioned his spot in the Boks squad over the last couple of seasons. I actually think he has been pretty good this season, but there a plenty of young wings coming through in South Africa, so he may be hard pressed to keep his spot.

 

[nickdnz]

You could have just clicked on the link I provided it shows his career and positions as well. So let me see. He was picked at wing for the Hurricanes because Umaga and Smith were there yet he played in tests as centers. Where was Smith then? He was used more as a stop gap until 2008 as his career went in and out. But he played for the Hurricanes first not for NZ. And he started on the wing for them. When did Tana retire btw?

But like I said its just our own opinions. I believe by 2015 he won't be the Nonu like we use to know and will be out of favor. Especially when you got bundles of guys knocking on the door and is already better than him on current form.

Your link was on the Tonga game and not helpful at all. I could have used espnscrum.com to look up Nonu, however it doesn't tell me what position he was playing in those tests (I actually went though everyone of his tests to get those positions right and demonstrate that a). He has never started on the wing for the All Blacks, b). The irregularity of his test starts before he moved to inside centre and c). That his preferred position when he started was 2003. I thought it would be pretty obvious.

As for the Hurricanes, like Darwin mentioned he was starting at centre for the Hurricanes before Smith became the regular starter.

 

[William18]

Do you guys reckon wingers like Tommy Bowe and Bryan Habana are still going to be up for the job at 32/33 or will they have lost too much pace?

I think they have a chance but I don't have the knowledge about those two countries and what players they are producing. I think if you look at a rugby team as a system where each player has a specific role, the winger would have to be the least important member of that system. That isn't to say that they aren't important players. I just think that a winger can be easily replaced without that affecting the rest of the team so much. Obviously if you replace your first five that can change the whole style you play. With the All Blacks I generally think the wingers should just be whoever is on form. Obviously you have to have some considerations for experience but I think form is more important for a wing than any other position. So I would doubt those two players would still be there. However, I don't judge a player on age rather I judge them on ability. If you're good enough, you're young enough.

 

[William18]

Props: Tu'ungafasi, Franks, Franks, Tamiefuna
Hookers: Elliot and one more
Locks: Retalick, Whitelock, Luatua and one more
Loose Forwards: McCaw, Cane, Read, Vito, Ardie Savea, Shields

Halfbacks: Smith, Perenara, Kerr-Barlow
First-Fives: Cruden, Barrett
Centres: Freuan, Ngatai, Ellison, Carter
Outside backs: Dagg, Taylor, Savea, Veainu

I have tried to be as experimental as possible. Bear in mind that in the starting XV for the quarter against France in 2007 only two players would appear in the final four years later. However, in some cases that is hard to do. I have picked our three best halfbacks now to be our three best in three years time. I find that unlikely to occur but can't think of another half back with more promise. The only position that really worries me is hooker. I'm sure we can find another second five from somewhere or alternatively just move Carter there.

 

[big ginger 8]

Do you guys reckon wingers like Tommy Bowe and Bryan Habana are still going to be up for the job at 32/33 or will they have lost too much pace?

Bowe has a chance he does have good pace but he isn't exactly lightning. His game is more based of being an intelligent player. He could well end up moving in one to 13 though it's pretty unlikely. We have a number of good wings coming through all of whom are pretty much under 23. We've already got Fitzgerald and Earls as established international wings. Unless Bowe can keep his Ireland form up to his usual high standards I don't really see him being more than a squad player.

I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert on South African rugby but Habana is a year older and despite a recent upswing he's been steadily declining since around 09. S.A. also seem to have a number of good wings who are younger and aren't lacking for pace who'll only get better.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Tommy Bowe is somewhat reminiscent to Shaggy in terms of playing style and it's worth noting that he had his best couple of seasons in 2010 and 2011. Unfortunately he'd had a pretty poor period when Deccie first got the job, and considering that Shaggy and Kidney most certainly do not get on he was always unlikely to be recalled, despite being the form Irish winger at the time.

 

[Erich]

Props: WP Nel, Coenie Oosthuizen, Steven Kitshoff, Frans Malherbe, Dale Chadwick, Dean Greyling

Hookers: Adriaan Strauss, Mahlatse Ralepelle, Deon Fourie, Bismarck du Plessis

Locks: Juandre Kruger, Eben Etzebeth, Anton Bresler, Rynhardt Elstadt, Peet Marais

Loosies: Duane Vermeulen, Marcell Coetzee, Siyamthanda Kolisi, CJ Stander, Nick Koster, Heinrich Brussow, Philip van der Walt, Joshua Strauss, Derick Minnie, Keegan Daniel, Jacques Potgieter, Lappies Labuschagne, Arno Botha, Nizaam Carr

Scrumhalves: Francois Hougaard, Sarel Pretorius, Tian Meyer, Dewaldt Duvenage

Outhalves: Johan Goosen, Handre Pollard, Elton Jantjies, Sias Ebersohn, Demetri Catrakilis. Patrick Lambie

Centres: Jan Serfontein, Johann Sadie, Robert Ebersohn, , Juan de Jongh, Dries Swanepoel, William Small- Smith, Francois Venter, Francois Steyn, JJ Engelbrecht, Tim Whitehead, Heimar Williams

Back 3: Gerhard van den Heever, Louis Ludik, JP Pietersen, Willie Le Roux, Jesse Kriel, Bjorn Basson, JP du Plessis, Tim Swiel, Jaco Taute, Lwazi Mvovo

Looking forward to a backline looking like this

Goosen, Le Roux,, Serfontein, Swanepoel, Engelbrecht, Taute

I like it, especially the promising young cheetahs, but what about the Beast and Jannie dP? (No, I'm not a Sharks fan; just think they're good players and would have a lot of chemistry, along with Jannie's brother in the middle.

Also, what abiut Ruan Pienaar?

1-Jannie du Plessis
2- Bismarck du Plessis
3- Tendai Mtawarira
4- Flip van der Merwe
5-Eben Etzebeth
6- Willem Alberts
7- Marcell Coetzee
8-Pierre Spies
9- Francois Hougaard
10- Johan Goosen
11- JJ Engelbrecht
12- Jan Serfontein
13- Francois Steyn
14- JP Pietersen
15- Willie Le Roux
----------------------
16- Adriaan Strauss
17- Coenie Oosthuizen (can play tighthead or loose)
18- Jaques Potgieter (can play flanker or lock)
19- Juandre Kruger
20- Ruan Pienaar (can play scrumhalf or flyhalf)
21- Patrick Lambie (can play fullback or flyhalf)
22-Bjorn Basson

 

[ARCM]

God I hope Andre Taylor at least serves as part of the NZ Squad. Steven Luatua is best suited at N. 6 (we'll leave it at that)
Beauden Barrett/Cruden? Barrett is without a doubt looking to secure his name at N.10
Hopefully Sam Cane will get a shot as well. Julian Savea will definitely be in it as well. Can't tell though - WAY too early.
Things change you know?...