Offensive Team Names

[j'nuh]

Tell this stupid PC ***** to go **** herself.

(Readers will understand by now that I hate Political Correctness)

You can disagree with someone without resorting to such coarse language. It does absolutely nothing for your argument and brings down the level of the debate.

Why do you so hostilely disagree with PC?

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

You can disagree with someone without resorting to such coarse language. It does absolutely nothing for your argument and brings down the level of the debate.

Why do you so hostilely disagree with PC?

because obviously if someone disagrees with you they don't deserve to be treated as humans since if you are a god like SC anyone who doesn't share your opinion is a worthless pile of ****

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Must stop watching Yes Minister.

People from Anglo-Saxon cultures mainly have it good. That's my point made simple. Therefore, how we feel about our culture and heritage is going to have some differences from the way people from cultures that don't have it good feel.

Therefore trying to extrapolate how they should feel and take things from our own experiences makes no sense to me.

SC - Uhh, just google it. Redskins totally has history as a pejorative term.


edit: This is a pretty good piece on the subject - http://deadspin.com/redskins-a-natives-guide-to-debating-an-inglorious-1445909360

article written by a native american about the term redskins is not a good source about the term redskins, it is important for you to listen to a white person explain how the term honors the native americans and they asked all their friends who are 1/16 cherokee how they feel about the name and they said it was okay with them

 

[InsaneAsylum]

so the All Blacks are going to have to change their racist name then?

 

[Peat]

Anglo Saxons were invaded and ruled by Normans, the trouble is that we, now... what we refer to as an Anglo Saxon culture... are actually the result of that subjugation, and we consider ourselves free.
Granted, they weren't systematically wiped out, but conflating modern Britain's status with Anglo Saxon status is inaccurate IMO.

You were the one who said Anglo-Saxon, not me. Pick whatever name for our culture you will; the point is our situation is rather different to theirs.

Tell this stupid PC ***** to go **** herself.

Please respect the rules, there's no need to call anyone a *****.

 

[smartcooky]

Please respect the rules, there's no need to call anyone a *****.

The forum rules apply to forum members when addressing or speaking about OTHER forum members. They do NOT extend to protecting people who are NOT members of the forum, such as politicians and spokes-persons for special interest groups. If they pop their head up and use their position to opine on controversial matters, they can expect to get heckled by those who disagree.

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article written by a native american with a personal agenda about the term redskins is not a good source about the term redskins,

FTFY

it is important for you to listen to a white person explain how the term honors the native americans and they asked all their friends who are 1/16 cherokee how they feel about the name and they said it was okay with them

Thanks, but I'll listen to the vast majority Native Americans who DON'T want it changed.


NOTE: Please show some respect and capitalise "Native American" in your posts.

Thank you!

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so the All Blacks are going to have to change their racist name then?

While I know you are kidding, this argument illustrates just how stupid the politically correct BS over team names has become.

Sometimes, a name is just a name!

 

[austingtir]

You can disagree with someone without resorting to such coarse language. It does absolutely nothing for your argument and brings down the level of the debate.

Why do you so hostilely disagree with PC?

I think you'll find your one of the few that think like that...... Well maybe not on this forum because the ones that think the opposite like me tend to get banned..... Coincidence I think not.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfXufBRWIAEkt3T.jpg

 

[TobesHodges]

just read this on BBC, Dr Herrmann clearly does have a lot to keep her occupied at Southampton University, get a F#%&@G Grip!!

PS: Shes probably vegan also.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well, I think this whole thread has the chance to cause a lot of discomfort and could even lead to people being banned from the forum. Let's try to keep it civil.

Anyways, I think a lot of these offensive terms, are subjective. I for instance don't see a lot wrong with terms such as Redskins, Chiefs, Saracens, Barbarians.

I think a lot of those names were chosen as a form of tribute to those terms in that the team should be feared as they play like barbarians. It's a much better name than calling a team the teddy bears or the Ken dolls.

The names are appropriate in the context of rugby. And those names, while some might use political notions, have nothing to do with politics. You all see what is happening in South Africa when politics and sport mix, and it sucks!

But just to throw some spanner in the works, what do you guys think of the Southern Kings? if you look at their name along with their logo, which is a bunch of Zulu/Xhosa spears, is in my view a lot worse than any of the abovementioned names. As it's a tribute to the Xhosa and Zulu tribes, and their Kings such as Shaka, who killed a lot of Boere. To me, this is very offensive, but to people in the UK or US, this might be a non-issue...

 

[ncurd]

10% of people(I find the number dubious) offended roughly equates 300,000 people so we're not talking about a small group. So at what point are they large enough that their offence is allowed to be heard?

 

[BathBod]

I tend to reflect on what Clint Eastwood might opine about the original proposition.

 

[smartcooky]

10% of people(I find the number dubious) offended roughly equates 300,000 people so we're not talking about a small group. So at what point are they large enough that their offence is allowed to be heard?

In a democracy, more than 50%

 

[ncurd]

The idea 50% majority is a fallacy though only in a binary system will that ever happen anyone with half a brain knows the world operates in shades of grey rather than black and white.

Plus how do you protect minorities if they can never be the majority?

 

[j'nuh]

The forum rules apply to forum members when addressing or speaking about OTHER forum members. They do NOT extend to protecting people who are NOT members of the forum, such as politicians and spokes-persons for special interest groups. If they pop their head up and use their position to opine on controversial matters, they can expect to get heckled by those who disagree.

1. I am pretty sure there are women on this forum. Using a gendered epithet in this instance would be wrong; no different in principle (but perhaps in extremity) to using the n-word.

2. As far as I remember, this is meant as a family-friendly forum. Sexualised threats aren't exactly compatible with that...

In a democracy, more than 50%

So for example, words offensive to white people should be shut down, but various racial, sexual and xenophobic epithets - because they target minorities - should be fair game?

Why do you disagree with PC? You don't agree with inclusivity, or...?

 

[austingtir]

1. I am pretty sure there are women on this forum. Using a gendered epithet in this instance would be wrong; no different in principle (but perhaps in extremity) to using the n-word.

2. As far as I remember, this is meant as a family-friendly forum. Sexualised threats aren't exactly compatible with that...


So for example, words offensive to white people should be shut down, but various racial, sexual and xenophobic epithets - because they target minorities - should be fair game?

Why do you disagree with PC? You don't agree with inclusivity, or...?

This is rather tiresome stuff to be posting on a rugby forum is it not?

 

[ratsapprentice]

You were the one who said Anglo-Saxon, not me. Pick whatever name for our culture you will; the point is our situation is rather different to theirs.

When I say "Anglo Saxon", I mean "Anglo Saxon", not "contemporary English".

This is all straying a bit from the OP, though....

 

[smartcooky]

1. I am pretty sure there are women on this forum. Using a gendered epithet in this instance would be wrong; no different in principle (but perhaps in extremity) to using the n-word.

OK, so next time anyone refers a MALE rugby player using a gendered epithet such as "knobhead", "d¡ckhead" or "w@nker", I will expect you to call them to account for being insensitive to that player's gender.

Sauce for the goose ncurd

2. As far as I remember, this is meant as a family-friendly forum. Sexualised threats aren't exactly compatible with that...

You will now provide evidence that I threatened someone. If you can't provide such evidence, you will withdraw that allegation and apologise.

So for example, words offensive to white people should be shut down, but various racial, sexual and xenophobic epithets - because they target minorities - should be fair game?

No, that is your strawman

Plus how do you protect minorities if they can never be the majority?

Another strawman. GO back a read what I said.

The first step in protecting a minority is to ask them if they want to be protected.

[rant warning]
I am completely deaf in one ear, and have severe partial deafness in the other (causing me to have severe tinnitus...24/7/365) This makes me very grumpy sometimes and I have become sick to death of well-meaning PC w@nkers belittling my disability be referring to me as "hearing impaired" or "aurally challenged" or "hard of hearing". I find such PC terms insulting and demeaning. I am the one affected by this, I am "deaf" d e a f!, not any of those other weasel word terms; its my business and no-one else's unless I ask them to make it so.
[/rant over]

I apply the same philosophy in the team name situation. If Native Americans have a problem with the name "Washington Redskins" then let them form a political lobby group to arrange the holding of a referendum on the issue and decide of there is enough support among the Native American population to put pressure on the NFL and on Washington's owners and management to change it. If you are not a Native American, it is none of your business unless they ASK you to make it your business.

Why do you disagree with PC? You don't agree with inclusivity, or...?

This is the issue I have with Political Correctness. It has become a bandwagon for Social Justice Warriors and loony left-wing Liberals to become offended on other people's behalf. Those who are actually offended are the only people who have a legitimate right to complain about the offense.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Okay calm down lads (not to be demeaning, but not a single female member has posted yet on this thread).

There is no need to take each other on personally. I've already asked you all to keep it civil, any further issues, and I will close this thread.

 

[Groundhog]

I did a bit of reading on the 90% of native Americans don't mind the Redskin thing, and it looks like that's drawn from the 2004 Annenberg Study which is generally slated as unreliable and a bit dubious in many ways. You don't even get 90% of whites agreeing with the term these days (around 70%), and the figure is far lower for blacks and latinos recently. A more recent study found that about 68% of Natives found it offensive. Whether that study is any more reliable I don't know, but it ain't as high as 90% approval.

 

[ncurd]

I don't think you meant me on the goose comment.


There was a campaing recently in UK I forget what it was called but it was essentially it was about trying to treat people with disabilities as human being and stop skirting around the issue.
http://www.scope.org.uk/awkward

I think a referendum is a bit far but your entirely right about exerting political pressure to change the name which is exactly what is happening in America.

I think there's a bigger question here your right people shouldn't be getting offended on people behalf when they don't say they've been offended. However people shouldn't turn a blind eye against things they know that other people find offensive. There's a fine line there.

Heinieken I was not aware of origins of the Kings (it's such a generic team name I wouldn't think anything of it and I don't follow Super Rugby), yes that is probably far worse than the Chiefs


Back on topic a little, Britain has no Nataive American population of which to speak to protest against the Chief's (even less that care about Rugby). I'm exaerating for effect but in a 100% white country would you have no issue with team being called the Negroes? Nobody to protest or fight them then that are from that community.
I'm just saying there needs to be conversation about if it is 'appropriate' rather than hysteria from either side of the arguement. And we should be asking those question whenever you use imagery from another culture it's common decency rather than political correctness.

If the Chiefs turned around and said nope we spoke to the Sioux leaders about what we do and they said they were fine nobody would bat an eyelid. Instead the marketing team are just pushing the stuff out without much thought into it at all.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I did a bit of reading on the 90% of native Americans don't mind the Redskin thing, and it looks like that's drawn from the 2004 Annenberg Study which is generally slated as unreliable and a bit dubious in many ways. You don't even get 90% of whites agreeing with the term these days (around 70%), and the figure is far lower for blacks and latinos recently. A more recent study found that about 68% of Natives found it offensive. Whether that study is any more reliable I don't know, but it ain't as high as 90% approval.

there was a more recent study done by the washington post that reaffirmed the 90% but the method was asking people whether or not they identify as native american, and lots of whites and especially blacks like to believe they are part native american... it makes whites feel better cause it feels it doesn't make them responsible for the way we treated native americans and blacks would rather believe that their family mated with native americans rather than whites... it's all bs

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Thanks, but I'll listen to the vast majority Native Americans who DON'T want it changed.


NOTE: Please show some respect and capitalise "Native American" in your posts.
Thank you!

wow, what a surprise that a native person might have a personal agenda about a name that degrades native people

and thanks SC i'll keep that capitalization thing and all your other infinite wisdom in mind when i submit my application for supreme rugby internet commenter of the year