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Offensive Team Names

OK, so next time anyone refers a MALE rugby player using a gendered epithet such as "knobhead", "d¡ckhead" or "w@nker", I will expect you to call them to account for being insensitive to that player's gender.
The issue with epithets directed towards minorities is that it creates a sense of otherness in the minority; a sense of not belonging.

It changes dependent on place and context in my opinion. I would be bothered by an insult directed at my whiteness more so if I lived in African and Asian countries, than I would in European countries. It creates a sense of unease that I am being singled out for my differences. It's something minorities have to be extremely careful of, because throughout history minorities have faced persecution because of their minority status in a way that e.g. white people in predominantly white countries, or men in countries in which power is held predominantly by men, have not.

Besides, yes, I do have a problem with people calling rugby players (or anyone) these terms. Not for discriminatory reasons, but because people deserve a base level of respect.

You will now provide evidence that I threatened someone. If you can't provide such evidence, you will withdraw that allegation and apologise.
Sorry, I should have been clearer. The term threat has multiple definitions aside from an intent to apply violence etc.

I meant: threat - the possibility that something bad or harmful could happen

And by sexualised I meant containing sexual content. Reading it, I can appreciate how it can be taken for something a lot worse. The spirit I intended it in is much milder. And in my defence, I had just woken up and was in a rush for work. :p

So I apologise for sloppiness and ambiguity. But the message remains: I don't think that the language is appropriate for a family-friendly forum (especially given that, not too long ago, we were told to reduce on the swearing).

No, that is your strawman
How so? You suggested that it would take, in a democracy, 50%+ of the population to be offended by something in order for the offence to be heard.

By definition, minority groups cannot possibly form more than 50% of the population in a way that majority groups can. Under democracy, white people can band together to stop epithets directed towards white people in a way that black people cannot (assuming a white-majority country).

So my point stands.

The first step in protecting a minority is to ask them if they want to be protected.

[rant warning]
I am completely deaf in one ear, and have severe partial deafness in the other (causing me to have severe tinnitus...24/7/365) This makes me very grumpy sometimes and I have become sick to death of well-meaning PC w@nkers belittling my disability be referring to me as "hearing impaired" or "aurally challenged" or "hard of hearing". I find such PC terms insulting and demeaning. I am the one affected by this, I am "deaf" d e a f!, not any of those other weasel word terms; its my business and no-one else's unless I ask them to make it so.
[/rant over]

I apply the same philosophy in the team name situation. If Native Americans have a problem with the name "Washington Redskins" then let them form a political lobby group to arrange the holding of a referendum on the issue and decide of there is enough support among the Native American population to put pressure on the NFL and on Washington's owners and management to change it. If you are not a Native American, it is none of your business unless they ASK you to make it your business.
I don't disagree with you whatsoever here. Whilst I believe some people are well-meaning in their intent to defend others, often it can become patronising and self-fulfilling if someone - not of the minority status - practically makes the dialogue about themselves. It's cringy when people campaign on behalf of a group who has no interest in the campaign. Minority groups have called this out before.

I think that a movement dedicated to a particular group has form the dialogue. Men should not become feminists, for instance, lest they make the movement about themselves. It's generally well-meaning, but often misplaced, distracting and unwelcome. But that doesn't mean that men cannot interact with feminism, be allies of feminism, take interest in the discourse presented by feminism, reflect on and change themselves and their shortcomings when contrasted to feminism. It doesn't mean men cannot call out people when they are being sexist towards women.

Which leads me onto...

This is the issue I have with Political Correctness. It has become a bandwagon for Social Justice Warriors and loony left-wing Liberals to become offended on other people's behalf. Those who are actually offended are the only people who have a legitimate right to complain about the offense.
I think it takes a lack of imagination not to understand why anyone would want to complain on others behalf. It's innately human to have some degree of empathy for other people. I want BLM to succeed because I want black people to succeed. I want feminism to succeed because I want women to succeed. People should take an interest in the welfare of others. People should get offended on the behalf of others, as long as those people welcome the offence.
 
wow, what a surprise that a native person might have a personal agenda about a name that degrades native people

You should read up about Gyassi Ross before deciding whether to take his word as gospel

...and thanks SC i'll keep that capitalization thing and all your other infinite wisdom in mind when i submit my application for supreme rugby internet commenter of the year

That's fine. If you want to be disrespectful of other races and cultures, that is your choice I suppose, even if it does make you a hypocrite.

How so? You suggested that it would take, in a democracy, 50%+ of the population to be offended by something in order for the offence to be heard

No, that isn't what I said at all

If a minority want something changed, then I expect more than half of that minority to support that change, not just a few noisy individuals, otherwise you have a minority of a minority driving the bus.

I would need a majority (over 50%) of Native Americans, not of the general population, to support a move to pressure the Redskins team to change their name, before I would support such a move. They are the allegedly offended party, so they need to clearly show that they have general support among their own group for such a move. Currently, they are nowhere near any kind of consensus, with far more of them against a name change than for it.

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just read this on BBC, Dr Herrmann clearly does have a lot to keep her occupied at Southampton University, get a F#%&@G Grip!!

PS: Shes probably vegan also.

Comes across as a Liberal, tree-hugging hippie.

Probably wants scrums banned too
 
Good measured response trying engage with the Chiefs rather than throwing her toys out the pram over it.
 
think its petty, if you had a team called the Vikings would you ban horned helmets because that was an image brought to us by Disney and would offend someone from Denmark?

Sorry but these people need to find some real problems in their lives.
 
Vikings are no longer a living breathing culture for nearly 600-700 years modern day scandanavians have as much connection to the Vikings as Italians to the Roman's. Neither have recent history of being oppressed race.

Native American's on the other hand still have strong connections the stereotyped culture being portrayed and have been screwed over by and continue to be screwed over by the US goverment.
 
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think its petty, if you had a team called the Vikings would you ban horned helmets because that was an image brought to us by Disney and would offend someone from Denmark?

Sorry but these people need to find some real problems in their lives.

And I think that argument is pretty petty, considering how different both cultures have developed.
 
Vikings are no longer a living breathing culture for nearly 600-700 years modern day scandanavians have as much connection to the Vikings as Italians to the Roman's. Neither have recent history of being oppressed race.

Native American's on the other hand still have strong connections the stereotyped culture being portrayed and have been screwed over by and continue to be screwed over by the US goverment.

So what has that got to do with a rugby team in Exeter wearing feathered hats? People use the name Chiefs because it means brave warriors, if they were called the drunk, gambling, oppressed Native Indians and all turned up to matches dressing as hobbos and smelling of whiskey then fine its a negative stereo type but the one Exeter give is not. Again people should find some real problems in their lives.
 
So what has that got to do with a rugby team in Exeter wearing feathered hats? People use the name Chiefs because it means brave warriors, if they were called the drunk, gambling, oppressed Native Indians and all turned up to matches dressing as hobbos and smelling of whiskey then fine its a negative stereo type but the one Exeter give is not. Again people should find some real problems in their lives.


Did you not read that article?

And also how many of our problems are real problems by that logic?
 
If I understand it correctly, Chiefs stemmed from local slang for the first XV and was used by Exeter before all the Indian branding. I think most people can see that for what it is, just a piece of opportunistic marketing with no intent to cause any offence. That said I think the badge should be changed as apart from a bit of word play I fail to see a link between the West Country and Native Americans. Then again I'm yet to see a great white swimming up the Manchester Ship Canal.
 
Did you not read that article?

And also how many of our problems are real problems by that logic?

To be honest most problems we have in our lives are not real problems and it often takes something like a serious like a death to a loved one or a bad illness to one of your children to make people understand that. Unfortunately we have an obsession with finding offence, making big problems out of little things and generally feeling we have an entitlement to bore to **** out of everyone else with our very trivial problems. Its all very childish and comes from desire to seek attention and I wish people would just grow up.


Oh god a sports team wants to be named after the Native Indian population of the US! What a great ****ing drama....no it really isnt

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If I understand it correctly, Chiefs stemmed from local slang for the first XV and was used by Exeter before all the Indian branding. I think most people can see that for what it is, just a piece of opportunistic marketing with no intent to cause any offence. That said I think the badge should be changed as apart from a bit of word play I fail to see a link between the West Country and Native Americans. Then again I'm yet to see a great white swimming up the Manchester Ship Canal.

Or a Tiger hunting along the banks of the Soar.
 
Oh god a sports team wants to be named after the Native Indian population of the US! What a great ****ing drama....no it really isn't.
Actually your the one claiming it's hysteria the actual person in the article is quite reasonable.

She wants to talk and inform people infact she has no issue with names Chiefs and would promote better ties with native Americans through Rugby as way of promoting the sport. What she doesn't like is the crass branding and things like hollering as it reminds her of when people use to make fun of her for her race at school which you be able to emphasise why it would make someone uncomfortable.

Wanting to promote the game and build actual links can hardly be called hysterical reaction.

Of course you'd know all this if read the article but no you wanted to read it as "waahhh wahhh wahhh" and did.

But know as usual a bunch of people when someone just want to have a discussion about whether something should be done or done differentt play the PC/hysteria/"it's not offensive" card and don't want to talk about it.
 
Actually your the one claiming it's hysteria the actual person in the article is quite reasonable.

She wants to talk and inform people infact she has no issue with names Chiefs and would promote better ties with native Americans through Rugby as way of promoting the sport. What she doesn't like is the crass branding and things like hollering as it reminds her of when people use to make fun of her for her race at school which you be able to emphasise why it would make someone uncomfortable.

Wanting to promote the game and build actual links can hardly be called hysterical reaction.

Of course you'd know all this if read the article but no you wanted to read it as "waahhh wahhh wahhh" and did.

But know as usual a bunch of people when someone just want to have a discussion about whether something should be done or done differentt play the PC/hysteria/"it's not offensive" card and don't want to talk about it.

Strange in the article in the start of thread she wanted the name to change. As for crass branding well the Irish all have people dressing in leprecorn beards at their games, the Welsh have people dressing as dafs , the scots all paint their faces like Mel Gibson and the English dress up as Norman knights, its a bit of fun and no one is hurt by it. So what if someone makes hollering noises like the ones I used to make playing Cowboys and Indians when I was kid.

As for not wanting to talk about it, Im happy to talk about it I just think people should really look at their lives sometimes and think "is that really offending me or do I just not find funny?"
 
Are you sure you actually read article recently posted by Tigs Man today that we we're actually dicussing? Because it's really sounding like you didn't.

http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co....-sioux-tribe/story-29597102-detail/story.html

Because the only thing I can see about rebranding or removing the chiefs name is attributed to Dr. Herrmann (from the original) not Dr. Pratt who was interviewed in it.


Yeah I played Cowboys and Indians as a kid too. Difference is we didn't take a Native American kid make them the Indian and proceeded to pick on them for it.
 
Are you sure you actually read article recently posted by Tigs Man today that we we're actually dicussing? Because it's really sounding like you didn't.

http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co....-sioux-tribe/story-29597102-detail/story.html

Because the only thing I can see about rebranding or removing the chiefs name is attributed to Dr. Herrmann (from the original) not Dr. Pratt who was interviewed in it.


Yeah I played Cowboys and Indians as a kid too. Difference is we didn't take a Native American kid make them the Indian and proceeded to pick on them for it.

I originally replied to the article at the start of the article the BBC one.

There were not many Native Americans living in South Derbyshire/NW Leicestershire when I was growing up but the darker you were the more likely you were to play the Indians. So do we worry about the childhood experiences of a person living in a different country in things we do?
 
I originally replied to the article at the start of the article the BBC one.
Yeah but this thread was resurrected due to Tigs-Man posting that article and I was commenting on it. Follow the conversation mate how are we suppose to know your talking about the OP?

The original comment was hysteria but we were actually talking about something else.

Actually yes to that comment very much so but I've commented on the topic of bullying and it's effects in depth in this forum in a specific thread. It's relavent to this but extremely tangental to start talking outside the experiences of a Native American on this thread.
 
Yeah but this thread was resurrected due to Tigs-Man posting that article and I was commenting on it. Follow the conversation mate how are we suppose to know your talking about the OP?

The original comment was hysteria but we were actually talking about something else.

Actually yes to that comment very much so but I've commented on the topic of bullying and it's effects in depth in this forum in a specific thread. It's relavent to this but extremely tangental to start talking outside the experiences of a Native American on this thread.

Yes but we all get bullied at some point don't we? Its part of growing up and happens as much in adulthood as it does in childhood and happens for all sorts of reasons often its just because you didn't fit with a certain person or group. So someone got bullied because they were a native Indian, I got bullied once simply because a kid in the year above didn't like me and Im not talking name calling, I got beaten black and blue a few times, you get over it and move on you cannot always have positive experiences to look back on. But to take offense and she does take offense to a Rugby team in England being call Exeter chiefs just because a few hundred years some long dead members of the British empire and US cavalry did something to now long dead members of a native tribe is frankly a little self indulgent and she should grow up.
 
Yes but we all get bullied at some point don't we? Its part of growing up and happens as much in adulthood as it does in childhood and happens for all sorts of reasons often its just because you didn't fit with a certain person or group. So someone got bullied because they were a native Indian, I got bullied once simply because a kid in the year above didn't like me and Im not talking name calling, I got beaten black and blue a few times, you get over it and move on you cannot always have positive experiences to look back on. But to take offense and she does take offense to a Rugby team in England being call Exeter chiefs just because a few hundred years some long dead members of the British empire and US cavalry did something to now long dead members of a native tribe is frankly a little self indulgent and she should grow up.
READ THE BLOODY ARTICLE WE'RE REFFERING TO! She didn't take offence to them being called Chiefs she took offence to crass marketing of the name Chiefs and even then she didn't really take offence.

As to bullying there's a separate thread as noted but I've long found anyone who says "ah I got bullied once" and got over it didn't go through what I did or others that have massive issue with it.
 
You clearly don't read the politics thread ;)
 
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