NZ vs Wales - June 2016

[Bluemoon]

I know what you mean Dull, there really doesn't seem to be enough youth making their way to the pro clubs and making the step up. Its hard to see where Gatland can go from here.

Agree with all of what you are saying, the only caveat being with Dacey. Dacey's throwing in has been OK with Cardiff and he is excellent around the park. He's a good impact player, carries well and can win the occasional turnover. He used to play at flanker I believe, and often resembles one in the loose. I was really happy to see him get a run out and really think he can grow into an international role. Wales have a history of a poor line out and I think Saturday was a team problem, as much as his throwing. I'm not saying he's the finished article but he's worth a place.

 

[smartcooky]

With 5-6 x the population, perhaps you need to tell us what Argentina are good at, other than sheila's games like soccer? What is their olympic medal record compared to NZ? Otherwise, stick to girls games, eh?

This kind of inappropriate claptrap has no place in this forum.

The fact that you appear to be a Kiwi makes it even more cringeworthy; and embarrassing for the rest of us Kiwis who get tarred with your brush!

 

[smartcooky]

- Lydiate. Living off of his 2012 form, but his game is far too limited by todays standards. He's not explosive or quick enough to develop an effective carrying game.
- Biggar. I like Biggar's never say die attitude, but he doesn't threaten the line effectively, and his distribution game is fat too limited at this level.
- Roberts. Too limited sorry. He wouldn't get close to the NZ squad without the ability to identify space and distribute the ball.
- Liam Williams. I love him in many ways, but boy does the guy never pass the ball. Always goes on the outside as well, which usually just cuts down space for players outside him.
- Rhys Priestland. Wales arguably played their best rugby under Gats when Priestland was playing well at 10, but he's far too inconsistent and probe to errors.

- Lydiate: He's out of the tour with injury isn't he?

- Biggar: Wales have no chance of beating NZ if he persists in sitting back in the pocket. As you say, he doesn't take the ball to the line often enough or effectively enough to keep the NZ midfield defence honest. When he kicks, he will have to kick accurately and into space. Kick chase isn't going to do much because I cannot see a weakness anywhere in the NZ backs, Dagg, Ben Smith, J Savea, etc, are all excellent under the high ball. God help Wales if he starts kicking the ball away aimlessly, because you know that NZ are the best counter-attackers in world rugby and they will burn you if you keep doing it.

- Roberts: I have always considered him to be something of a carthorse; big strong but lacking in agility. When he strikes the combinations of players like Ngatai, Fekitoa and Tamanivalu in midfield, I think his one-dimensionality will be brutally exposed.

- Liam Williams: I haven't seen enough of him to judge, but if what you say is true than he sounds quite an easy player to show the sideline.

- Rhys Priestland: I think your best chance of winning a test on this tour is with this guy having a mistake free match at 10.

 

[dullonien]

Cooky. My comment re Liam Williams was probably the most unfair. He's probably been the most creative player in Wales over the past few years. As with North, he's another casualty of the rubbish they are being served by those inside them. His form has certainly dipped this year, but then he's had injury after injury to contend with, so it must be difficult for him to get match fit.

Slot him into a backline who can actually create space out wide, and he'll create havoc.

 

[Larksea]

Charlie Ngatai has been Released from the All Blacks Squad to focus on resolving his concussion related symptoms.

George Moala has been called in to replace him.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ed-into-all-blacks-in-place-of-charlie-ngatai

Such a shame for Ngatai, and the AB's in general as well because he is the form midfielder in the country. The guy has shown some serious ability this year and would have been one of the first names down.

Great chance for Moala. In my opinion he should have been selected anyway.

 

[GoTheNaki]

Massive blow losing Ngatai.. No-one else is even close in the 12 jersey.

 

[Andyd96]

i do have to laugh at the people who want to put ben smith on the wing, dont get me wrong, he is great on the wing but why would you want to put the best fullback in the world in another position to give somebody who is not as good in that position a crack?! izzy dagg and beauden barrett etc. are great at fullback sure but I just think it's a waste of ben smith's talents to have him anywhere else

 

[GoTheNaki]

i do have to laugh at the people who want to put ben smith on the wing, dont get me wrong, he is great on the wing but why would you want to put the best fullback in the world in another position to give somebody who is not as good in that position a crack?! izzy dagg and beauden barrett etc. are great at fullback sure but I just think it's a waste of ben smith's talents to have him anywhere else

Would only put Smith on the wing for McKenzie. The others can warm the bench.

 

[Andyd96]

Would only put Smith on the wing for McKenzie. The others can warm the bench.

so do you think McKenzie is a better fullback than Smith? not judging if you do, just genuinely want to know

 

[GoTheNaki]

so do you think McKenzie is a better fullback than Smith? not judging if you do, just genuinely want to know

No. I don't. However... Besides Naholo, we are short on right wingers atm. McKenzie is coming, whether people like it or not lol.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Dull you might want to add Scott Williams into that list, defensively he wasn't at the races and in attack lacked edge. Roberts looked tired, and almost seemingly carrying an injury. Will say it again, Roberts can pass a ball and identify the space, sadly Howley seems him as nothing more than a battering ram, it can be effective but as it stands he's now having more bad days than good.

As for Dacey, he's done well when called upon, I think anyone who came off the bench on Saturday wouldn't have done better. The lineout has under performed mainly due to inept coaching of McBryde. Really wish Gatland had a clear out after the World Cup and got somebody fresh in. For me that is why England were dangerous on Saturday, different style of coaching has gotten the best out of the players.

If Wales want to play an attacking game from 10 and a move way from Biggar, the man who was stuck on at 15 as a replacement is that man. Done it for the Blues this season, if there is a plea to be had, then please Gatland and co, stop playing him at 15 and let him play 10.l

 

[dullonien]

Agree on most points Cymro. I left a few players out due to their lack of game time with injury. Williams and AWJ weren't really at the races, whilst North barely touched the ball yet again.

Roberts played his best rugby when he was at the Blues, and I'd hazard a guess, when he was a fair few pounds lighter. I agree that he can pass, but he's never been a distributor that can unlock defenses. Still, I completely agree that he can and should be used far for effectively, we never see him offloading the ball in the tackle like he did so effectively alongside BOD in 2009!

A post WC clear-out was in order. I was calling for Danny Wilson as forwards coach at the time, he improves forward play at every team he's been involved with. Dai young would be another, after a slow start learning the trade, he had the Blues playing some wonderful stuff by the end, and was unlucky not to make a HC final. Not sure of anyone Welsh immediately sticks out as backs coach, Nigel Davies has the most experience, but his struggles as a head coach has dented his credibility, not to mention his time alongside Gareth Jenkins.

I'm still not convinced with Dacey. I see more potential in Elliot Dee. Agree that it was tough on him coming on in that game. Lineout and scrum really did suffer, but very difficult to pinpoint one player when there were so many changes up front by that point.

I 100% want to see Anscombe given a shot at 10. Yet again, he put in a couple of lovely passes to get the ball out wide into space on Sun, and that's what we need if we're going to get our back 3 + 13 into the game. He's not a fullback either, lacks the pace or elusiveness to offer enough threat on the counter attack.

 

[GoTheNaki]

Anscombe wasn't a bad 10... He just got stuck in what was the best generation for 10s.

 

[Peat]

The big crack in the Welsh scrum came right after AWJ went off. It was fine until that point. Not sure the sub front rows should take too much blame.

 

[austingtir]

No. I don't. However... Besides Naholo, we are short on right wingers atm. McKenzie is coming, whether people like it or not lol.

Naholo/Milner skudder are the current first choice selections on the wing imo. Mckenzie will be lucky to get on the field against wales and wont be selected once Milner Skudder is back.

Naholo was ridiculously good in his comeback game and I dont think he will choke like he did at the WC again.

Personally I really dont think Mckenzie will be very successful at int level either.

 

[smartcooky]

Personally I really dont think Mckenzie will be very successful at int level either.

While I don't wish to rain on his parade too much so early in his career, I do think he will find the time and space he enjoys in SR in much shorter supply at this next level up.

I found the ease with which a very average Waratahs team was able to keep him contained somewhat worrying.

 

[WaterboySA]

Don't know if Mckenzie will ever see the AB 15 jersey if Smith is still playing, but I will put money on him getting the Joker role in the next Batman movie....that's just scary.

 

[nzlizard]

McKenzie has a lot of work to do to get up ton international level, I believe he can get there, but we have so many just as good options.

As someone said once NMS gets back, his spot may go.

Shame about Ngatai, as he was looking so good.

 

[Larksea]

NMS & Naholo have the right wing to fight over. When Nehe is fit at least.

The one most likely to lose a spot to Nehe is Dagg IMO, look at the squad makeup. 4 guys who can cover 15! Nehe can cover 15 as well! Given that Dagg is not the #1 15 anymore then that spot is better used to continue develop Nehe & Mckenzie. And that will also depend on how McKenzie does when he gets a chance. If he sneaks through a few gaps against the welsh and I expect he will, that should be enough to earn continued selection so they can keep developing his game.

Ben Smith is our 15, sure he can play any position from 10-15 to a high standard but he is now our best, most reliable and most experienced back! 15 is the best place for him.

Savea is on the left but his form is inconsistent.

IMO that leaves room for McKenzie to have a go on the left wing.

I think everyone wants to see McKenzie get a run, but it just seems silly and risky to move Ben Smith to accommodate that. IMO you always put your best 15 at 15 and if you need/want to give a guy a run then put him on the wing.

If it turns out that McKenzie's best position is 15 and hes good at test level then Ben Smith wont keep him out forever. There is like a 9 year age gap between them! I still think McKenzie is a good option to take over at 10 at some stage. We dont see him at 10 much because the Chiefs have Cruden. But the few games he has had there he has been very good. one of the games he had was mind blowing, I actually think given the chance he would quickly become a better 10 than Cruden. But it makes sense for the chiefs to have Cruden at 10 and McKenzie at 15 to utilize their talent.

 

[GoTheNaki]

If we go 2-0 up on the Welsh I feel that McKenzie should get a run at 15. McKenzie only turned 21 this year... And we're arguing over him, lol. I mean, I didn't jump on the hype machine last year with him. I was all "ok, let's just see him do it again", and he's better this season. I know Hansen loves Dagg, even when Dagg was terrible, he was still an AB. So I guess you play Dagg when 2-0 up, and then assume that they are giving McKenzie the AB environment like they did to Rhys Marshall, Ardie Savea etc.

Each fullback is absolutely vital to their super team, so it'll be interesting if we get up 2-0. The Highlanders won't want to see Ben Smith playing the 3rd game.