Wales v Georgia

[pagliaccio_euforico]

1. Accept the fact that players will accept money from the bigger competition next door.
2. Make the regions attractive places to play. Not just talking about money. Go out and hire a coach that wants to play fun rugby. Build a positive culture.

 

[HamJan]

People always seem to laugh off the possibility of Robertson going to Wales. I don't see why to be honest. Don't get me wrong, we can't compete with England but there's no guarantee he gets the job and a 5 year contract in the here and now would definitely be tempting for him I reckon.

But yeah, if we wait until after the WC when he's got other offers like England then we have no chance but I doubt the RFU have concretely offered him anything at the moment so there's a chance. In his mind, he turns us down then doesn't get the England job in the summer what other jobs will be available. Maybe Scotland or Australia but no guarantee.

I'm not laughing off the possibility of Robertson going to Wales (it may happen) but of all the possible opportunities he has in front of him at this time, Wales seems like the weakest with the higher risk to his reputation.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'm not laughing off the possibility of Robertson going to Wales (it may happen) but of all the possible opportunities he has in front of him at this time, Wales seems like the weakest with the higher risk to his reputation.

Didn't mean to suggest you were, sorry. I can even see why people would laugh it off. No way are we a more attractive proposition as England and will pay half as less. But I guess the key words in your post that I'd highlight is "possible opportunities" that's all they are, possible opportunities. There's a lot to be said for a concrete offer in the here and now.

But look, he could well make the decision that he'd rather wait until after the WC to see what other concrete offers he had in which case we'd be screwed if England are one of them but if we're only up against Scotland or Australia then I can see us having a chance (though I'd imagine Australia will be more attractive as it's closer to home.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

1. Accept the fact that players will accept money from the bigger competition next door.
2. Make the regions attractive places to play. Not just talking about money. Go out and hire a coach that wants to play fun rugby. Build a positive culture.

Think 2 is where Wales are failing in comparison to Ireland. Irish players genuinely believe that the provinces are the best places to play rugby, very few move once they're not in the international picture anymore whereas Welsh players get the hell out of dodge as soon as they hit the cap threshold.

The provinces offer the benefits of great player welfare, playing regularly in front of full crowds, regular European rugby and quite a transparent route to the international set up. The regions offer some of this but nowhere near to the same extent in my opinion.

 

[dullonien]

I don't see any issue with the 60 cap rule. Kids are enticed to England for a better education at schools like Millfield or universities like Exeter who have great relationships with premeriship clubs. That's fine with me, as it's good that those youngsters have those opportunities, as that's not always the case in Wales. The 60 cap rule gives us some levarage to entice those players back to Wales at a later date, as well as other Welsh qualified players at what is likely a reduced salary than what they'd otherwise need to fork-out. People may not like that, but it works well, and England and a few others do similar.

Yes the regions are a bit of a mess right now, they despirately need to improve which would help them recruit better players (think back to the caliber of player the Ospreys + Cardiff used to attract), but I see the 60 cap rule as being part of the solution to that, as well as investing in better coaches. Look at the Dragons, not sure they would have signed thr likes of Moriarty, Rowlands and Roberts without the aid of Gatland's law, and after they parted ways with the useless Dean Ryan their performances have improved massively, even if results haven't always gone their way.

The argument that players get worse when they move to the regions is a false one imo. Rowlands was used as an example earlier in the thread, but that can't be further from the truth. He was Welsh rugby's player of the season last year, and his form had been even better this season prior to his injury. He's come through as a leader too. North, despite lots of injuries has improved after really getting stuck in a rut at Northampton. Costellow has progressed well, earning his international debut this month. Trying to think of an obvious failure, apart from Tompkins maybe, but it was obvious hia heart wasn't in it and he was just biding his time till he returned to Saracens.

Look, Welsh rugby is in a hole right now. The governence needs an overhaul, the regions need an overhaul to get them competative, the international side needs a full set of new coaches, but the least of our worries is Gatland's law which has probably done more than anything to stem the slide.

 

[HamJan]

I don't see any issue with the 60 cap rule. Kids are enticed to England for a better education at schools like Millfield or universities like Exeter who have great relationships with premeriship clubs. That's fine with me, as it's good that those youngsters have those opportunities, as that's not always the case in Wales. The 60 cap rule gives us some levarage to entice those players back to Wales at a later date, as well as other Welsh qualified players at what is likely a reduced salary than what they'd otherwise need to fork-out. People may not like that, but it works well, and England and a few others do similar.

Yes the regions are a bit of a mess right now, they despirately need to improve which would help them recruit better players (think back to the caliber of player the Ospreys + Cardiff used to attract), but I see the 60 cap rule as being part of the solution to that, as well as investing in better coaches. Look at the Dragons, not sure they would have signed thr likes of Moriarty, Rowlands and Roberts without the aid of Gatland's law, and after they parted ways with the useless Dean Ryan their performances have improved massively, even if results haven't always gone their way.

The argument that players get worse when they move to the regions is a false one imo. Rowlands was used as an example earlier in the thread, but that can't be further from the truth. He was Welsh rugby's player of the season last year, and his form had been even better this season prior to his injury. He's come through as a leader too. North, despite lots of injuries has improved after really getting stuck in a rut at Northampton. Costellow has progressed well, earning his international debut this month. Trying to think of an obvious failure, apart from Tompkins maybe, but it was obvious hia heart wasn't in it and he was just biding his time till he returned to Saracens.

Look, Welsh rugby is in a hole right now. The governence needs an overhaul, the regions need an overhaul to get them competative, the international side needs a full set of new coaches, but the least of our worries is Gatland's law which has probably done more than anything to stem the slide.

Good post dullonien and I think that Gatland's law only needs tweaking. The idea is that the best players remain in Wales, thus benefitting the national side and it's been suggested earlier in the thread that the rule shouldn't apply to the Welsh academy players who are learning their trade with English clubs (Reffell, Tshiuna etc). This has a lot of merit as you could put an age cap on the length of time they spend in England.

The immediate problem is that it's less than 12 months to RWC and Pivac isn't the man to get Wales past the quarter finals. Wales' attack play was painful to watch yesterday, especially with LRZ and Josh Adams in the back three. Is Pivac the man to fix this? Probably not.

 

[Croket66]

Fact :
12 georgians from the 23 men squad that beat Wales are from Black Lion franchise. A team owned by the georgian board that desperately asks for the possibility to play Challenge Cup/URC or any other competition. They were rumoured to play Challenge Cup with another Rugby Europe SuperCup team to replace Worcester and Wasps but the door finally stayed closed.
Harsh.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

finally getting to watch some highlights....quick question, why are neither team wearing red?

 

[TommiG88]

finally getting to watch some highlights....quick question, why are neither team wearing red?

Wales started in red, but the blood had drained from them come the end

 

[dullonien]

Fact :
12 georgians from the 23 men squad that beat Wales are from Black Lion franchise. A team owned by the georgian board that desperately asks for the possibility to play Challenge Cup/URC or any other competition. They were rumoured to play Challenge Cup with another Rugby Europe SuperCup team to replace Worcester and Wasps but the door finally stayed closed.
Harsh.

There's been a couple of reports that there's a key meeting arranged for next month to discuss whether the Black Lion will join the URC.

Not sure how that would be structured, but maybe Wales could drop a region which may need to happen to solve some of the issues Welsh rugby is facing. There's been fresh rumours about the future of the Ospreys, but realistically just cutting the Ospreys would be a poor move because that would leave 2/3 of the regions in Wales located a stones throw apart in Cardiff and Newport.