[November Tests 2017 EOYT] Ireland vs. Fiji (18/11/2017)

[Leinster Fan]

Taking injuries and Schmidt's usual rotation levels for these games into account what I'd like to see is:

15. Conway
14. Byrne
13. Farrell
12. McCloskey
11. Sweetnam
10. Carbery
9. Marmion
1. Kilcoyne
2. Herring
3. Ryan
4. Ryan
5. Dillane
6. Ruddock
7. Murphy
8. Conan
16. Tracy
17. J McGrath
18. Porter
19. Treadwell
20. Reidy
21. L McGrath
22. Keatley
23. D Kearney

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Fiji actually play quite disciplined and structured (relative to Fiji of the past and their crazy 7s play). I'm not convinced the coach is getting the maximum out of their players despite their rise in the rankings and victories over Scotland and Italy in June.

I don't expect too much from them in this fixture. Hoping for a bit more entertainment than Fiji vs Italy.

 

[profitius]

I think Ringrose should definitely be our first choice 13. I hate the phrase 'X Factor', but with Zebo gone he's our only player who really brings it to the backline. I thought the main area for improvement on Saturday was our attacking, which until the last ten minutes wasn't particularly effective. Whether he's a better player than Henshaw is up for debate but he's definitely a better 13.

I agree that Ringrose is a better 13 and our best center overall but I wouldn't say it was only himself and zebo bringing a bit of X factor. Stockdale and Sweetnam has it as do Earls, Conway, TOH and Payne when he plays fullback (not center). Carbery too and Jordan Larmour.


That list of players is the reason the IRFU were not too concerned about zebo leaving and why Schmidt was right to leave him out of the squad. Good player but not the best back in Munster and even on his first home appearance, Stockdale looks like he is in a different league to Zebo.

 

[Jakedood]

Taking injuries and Schmidt's usual rotation levels for these games into account what I'd like to see is:

15. Conway
14. Byrne
13. Farrell
12. McCloskey
11. Sweetnam
10. Carbery
9. Marmion
1. Kilcoyne
2. Herring
3. Ryan
4. Ryan
5. Dillane
6. Ruddock
7. Murphy
8. Conan
16. Tracy
17. J McGrath
18. Porter
19. Treadwell
20. Reidy
21. L McGrath
22. Keatley
23. D Kearney

Have to ask, but Stockdale is the form winger, was excellent in every respect when in both defense and attack at the weekend, the only thing he lacks is international experience... and we're dropping him out of the 23 altogether in 2 TRF named teams, both of which include Dave Kearney in the 23?

The guy has shown a huge learning curve since he hit the ulster team, I just cant justify this. Yes Conway got the ball more at the weekend, with a well taken opportunistic try, and a nice burst of acceleration after a beautiful inside line and pass off the left hand by Stockers, but Jacob took his try well enough too, always beat at least one man, produced at least one huge hit in defense, and was far more secure under the high ball, and in his general handling, so cant really justify again dropping him over any of the above mentioned back 3

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

The team I named is the team I expect to be picked. The team I'd like to see picked is different.

Conway, Sweetnam, Henshaw, McCloskey, Stockdale, Carbery, McGrath; McGrath, Herring, Porter, Ryan, Henderson, Ruddock, O'Brien, Conan

 

[big ginger 8]

Have to ask, but Stockdale is the form winger, was excellent in every respect when in both defense and attack at the weekend, the only thing he lacks is international experience... and we're dropping him out of the 23 altogether in 2 TRF named teams, both of which include Dave Kearney in the 23?

The guy has shown a huge learning curve since he hit the ulster team, I just cant justify this. Yes Conway got the ball more at the weekend, with a well taken opportunistic try, and a nice burst of acceleration after a beautiful inside line and pass off the left hand by Stockers, but Jacob took his try well enough too, always beat at least one man, produced at least one huge hit in defense, and was far more secure under the high ball, and in his general handling, so cant really justify again dropping him over any of the above mentioned back 3

If you're not in the 23 for the tier 2 game it's usually a good sign...

People aren't dropping him they're putting him as a starter.

Feel sorry for wingers picked outside a Farrell and McCloskey partnership, will have to come inside looking for the offload more.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Kearney did media duties today, whether or not that's a sign that he'll play I don't know. I could see Schmidt going for a 1.5 team because this Fiji side aren't the worst tier 2 side to play in Lansdowne by a long shot. Or maybe just RK after Saturday's showing proving he needs game time while Conway should steer clear of the 15 jersey, if anyone other than RK is going to play 15 in 2019 it'll be Stockdale so I would like to see that.

 

[big ginger 8]

Kearney did media duties today, whether or not that's a sign that he'll play I don't know. I could see Schmidt going for a 1.5 team because this Fiji side aren't the worst tier 2 side to play in Lansdowne by a long shot. Or maybe just RK after Saturday's showing proving he needs game time while Conway should steer clear of the 15 jersey, if anyone other than RK is going to play 15 in 2019 it'll be Stockdale so I would like to see that.

Media duties has become less and less reliable but I would like Kearney to play this game.

Edit: Bent has been called up for training. Well deserved really.

Since everyone else is doing it I'd reckon we'll have a team of:

15. Kearney
14. Byrne
13. Farrell
12. McCloskey
11. Sweetman
10. Carbery
9. Marmion
8. Conan
7. Reidy
6. Ruddock (c)
5. Dillane
4. Ryan
3. Porter
2. Herring
1. McGrath

16. Tracy
17. Kilcoyne
18. Bent
19. Treadwell
20. Murphy
21. McGrath
22. Keatley
23. Kearney

Would be one of the biggest backlines we've fielded and certainly a very mobile pack.

Wouldn't be surprised by a curveball SO'B selection.

 

[Amiga500]

I agree that Ringrose is a better 13 and our best center overall but I wouldn't say it was only himself and zebo bringing a bit of X factor.

To be honest, over the past few years, I've not really seen Zebo bring much in the way of "x-factor" to things.

He's typically caught the ball all right (assuming he's had the nous to position himself correctly to be near enough to catch it) ran up to an opponent, attempt a sh!tty sidestep where he moves about 1/2 an inch then gets nailed in the tackle by the bemused defender who is thinking "f**k me, did he really think that would work?"

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

we should really be stamping our position as a top three side in the world with intentions of making top 2 in the next 12 months.

I reckon you're pretty much already there. Although we (England) have got into a winning habit, some of the performances haven't been great and Ireland always seem to have a more cohesive team; perhaps vulnerable to losing a couple of key players. I'd probably back each other to win at home. Your last 3 against the ABs were a hard fought loss, a win and an ought to have won which is pretty good. Australia is the fly in this particular ointment, we'll see how they shape up on Saturday.

Good to see that tier 2 sides are getting more opportunities in the AIs now.

 

[Groundhog]

Rumoured team:

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rob Herring
3. Andrew Porter
4. Ultan Dillane
5. Devin Toner
6. Rhys Ruddock
7. Jordi Murphy
8. Jack Conan
9. Kieran Marmion
10. Joey Carberry
11. Dave Kearney
12. Stuart McCloskey
13. Chris Farrell
14. Darren Sweetnam
15. Andrew Conway

 

[munstermuffin]

Adam Byrne must be joining Munster that he isn't getting a cap

 

[Amiga500]

Adam Byrne must be joining Munster that he isn't getting a cap

Dave or Rob Kearney must never have whatsapped him the dodgy photos....

 

[Groundhog]

Byrne's defence is poor, but so is Dave Kearney's against a fast team like this to be honest, plus we learn nothing from Kearney anyway.

 

[munstermuffin]

If anything Rob should have been 15 as he was awful last week, has no game time and should've been made earn time.
Byrne may be poor defensively but is a better winger than Dave who again didn't earn spot in squad. What is point of it in all fairness. I don't buy experience stuff with Dave as he isn't a guy I'd call experienced. Yes he's played in big games but even then was a weak link in many eyes.
Same in pack Devin Toner in there is a bit iffy. He's played alot of minutes and deserved a week off

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Perhaps the coaching team don't want Adam Byrne facing Nemani Nadolo so soon after he struggled defensively in the Leinster v Montpellier game.

Would like to see Jack Conan, Stuart McCloskey, Ultan Dillane and Andrew Porter play well in particular. All could challenge for spots in a first string 23 in the 2019 World Cup. Not knocking John Ryan who has been a revelation for Munster over the last 18 months but Porter could potentially bring another dimension to the squad if his scrummaging hold up. It has been steadily improving.

Shame James Ryan wasn't fit for this game.

 

[munstermuffin]

Perhaps the coaching team don't want Adam Byrne facing Nemani Nadolo so soon after he struggled defensively in the Leinster v Montpellier game.

Would like to see Jack Conan, Stuart McCloskey, Ultan Dillane and Andrew Porter play well in particular. All could challenge for spots in a first string 23 in the 2019 World Cup. Not knocking John Ryan who has been a revelation for Munster over the last 18 months but Porter could potentially bring another dimension to the squad if his scrummaging hold up. It has been steadily improving.

Shame James Ryan wasn't fit for this game.

Not knocking Porter but fact is its all hype about potential at moment. He has been selected in squad with a future view but realistically he's what maybe 6th or 7th choice tight head prop in Ireland at moment. If it were a serious game tomorrow Bent, Archer, Ah You, Bealham and Ryan would be ahead in rankings for backing up Furlong. Simply as Porter isn't even trusted to start for Leinster at moment in games like 2 weeks ago. Again not saying he's poor or won't get there just hope hype is reined in a bit until the lad does get a foundation in this position.

On Byrne thing. If that is the case fair enough but why call him in then? If he can't be trusted vs Fiji at home he will never be trusted. And well again Dave Kearney hasn't earned a spot and guys like Daly should've been in so.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Not knocking Porter but fact is its all hype about potential at moment. He has been selected in squad with a future view but realistically he's what maybe 6th or 7th choice tight head prop in Ireland at moment. If it were a serious game tomorrow Bent, Archer, Ah You, Bealham and Ryan would be ahead in rankings for backing up Furlong. Simply as Porter isn't even trusted to start for Leinster at moment in games like 2 weeks ago. Again not saying he's poor or won't get there just hope hype is reined in a bit until the lad does get a foundation in this position.

On Byrne thing. If that is the case fair enough but why call him in then? If he can't be trusted vs Fiji at home he will never be trusted. And well again Dave Kearney hasn't earned a spot and guys like Daly should've been in so.

Fair point on Andrew Porter who hasn't proven himself as a pro tighthead yet. I do believe that he has more upside than any of Michael Bent, Rodney Ah You, Stephen Archer and John Ryan though. Finlay Bealham and Tadhg Furlong are the other props with well rounded games. I'm not sure what Bealham has done wrong. The reason that Porter didn't start against Glasgow is because he was training with Ireland all week.

If John Ryan was fit, he's start this game. Given his unavailability, starting Andrew Porter is the right call. He's clearly earmarked to go to Japan in 2019. To do that he needs to be brought up to speed quickly. It's a risk worth taking seeing as there are so many other options. If he fails, those you listed are mostly viable contenders. It's a much better position to be in than when Ireland had just a faltering John Hayes and Tony Buckley as the project behind him around 10 years ago.

Some outside the box thinking; back three depth is poor. Should Jordan Larmour be fast tracked too, like Andrew Porter and James Ryan have been? He has massive potential which others lack.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Fair point on Andrew Porter who hasn't proven himself as a pro tighthead yet. I do believe that he has more upside than any of Michael Bent, Rodney Ah You, Stephen Archer and John Ryan though. Finlay Bealham and Tadhg Furlong are the other props with well rounded games. I'm not sure what Bealham has done wrong. The reason that Porter didn't start against Glasgow is because he was training with Ireland all week.

If John Ryan was fit, he's start this game. Given his unavailability, starting Andrew Porter is the right call. He's clearly earmarked to go to Japan in 2019. To do that he needs to be brought up to speed quickly. It's a risk worth taking seeing as there are so many other options. If he fails, those you listed are mostly viable contenders. It's a much better position to be in than when Ireland had just a faltering John Hayes and Tony Buckley as the project behind him around 10 years ago.

Some outside the box thinking; back three depth is poor. Should Jordan Larmour be fast tracked too, like Andrew Porter and James Ryan have been? He has massive potential which others lack.

I think Larmour showed up to pro rugby about two weeks too late, a couple of impressive games came just as the squad had been named. He might have to wait a year now because Joe won't throw him in in the 6n and Australia could be a step too far although I'd look at getting him minutes down under.
I love Larmour and reckon he's the closest thing to Denis Hickie (Ireland's best wing ever imo) that we've had in this country since the man himself, he's the reason I'd like to see Stockdale at 15. Larmour and Earls on the wings with Stockers could be devastating, Conway, Sweetnam, RO'L and RK backing up leaves plenty of depth. A few 23 year olds in a RWC 23 could be the difference we need.

As for Porter, I think its a case of Schmidt knowing that Bealham and Ryan won't add much to their games than what they already have too. Bealham has 7 caps and 5 can easily be added in late 2018 and 2019 if it looks like Porter isn't going to reach the level required, having a third choice TH with double digits is far from a disaster especially when the 1st and 2nd choice should be in the mid thirties and twenties respectively so he's definitely right in taking the younger lad with far more potential.

Schmidt has proven to be a master at building depth since the last RWC, the biggest position of concern now is his back up 10's where he has the obvious 2/3 in Carbery but will need to get Ross Byrne up to standard, which it has taken Byrne a long time to do at every level he's played out of school, if PJ is judged to be guilty. Hooker is concerning to me too, Scannell couldn't have got injured at a worse time and should have been starting a fight with Best to be a starter but behind these two Schmidt is clearly building again getting Herring and Tracy some international minutes while deeming Cronin surplus to requirements either because he doesn't value giving a third choice with over 5 caps game time (TO'H?) or thinking he has better players in the other two.

 

[munstermuffin]

Don't get me wrong Snoop. I agree Porter may be better in time and him playing here is correct call. But equally we should calm the hype a bit as Porter hasn't done anything to feed that hype yet. Simply because he hasn't played as a TH prop too long. Just that hopefully he's let progress without hype or pressure.

On Lamour I think he offers more than Dave Kearney and IF Adam Byrne was never see as a guy getting game ime Lamour should be there to even get used to camp.

Alpha I think when Scannell is fit you'll see a fast track in the handover from Best to Scannell. I think Scannells darts have him so far ahead of rest and he is still improving but see Best developing a role of being that cool head coming in for last 20 all the way up to Japan. The Big issue is captaincy. Best is a cool man and there isn't a natural progression. Any backrower can't be certain of spot, Sexton I think struggles when that added pressure is on him. He is a natural leader anyway but get annoyed easy when getting in debates with ref, Murray not a captain type and no other real candidate.