[November Tests 2016 EOYT] England vs. Fiji (19/11/2016)

[TRF_Olyy]

Goode over Haley.......grim

 

[ratsapprentice]

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Rats has picked the magic word for me. Representation. Every England player should be in some way representative of us as a people, our way of life and institutions and so on. I don't care whether their dad was born half the world away or is descended from Hengist and Horsa, as long as there's some legitimate claim we're good.

I don't think Nathan Hughes has a legitimate claim. Not at this point.

I think Ben Te'o has an unquestionably legitimate claim but I get the feeling he's using it more for convenience than because it means something to him.

I'm not too fussed about either of these things. I don't mind a few guys here and there and no system is perfect. It should be better when it comes to players like Hughes but there we go. Its not like we've got the Qatar Olympic team or something. But I get why some don't like it, even if the amount some people harp on about it makes me hope Hughes is fantastic just to troll them.

Definitely with you, I'd be of the opinion that there's more examples of guys like Mike McCarthy, the Easterbys Dan Tuohy, Quade Cooper etc... who relied on the parent/grandparent rule to play for countries that they supported since childhood than blow ins like Te'o.

As for the three year rule I like that too, mainly because we use it well, but I think its fair to say that CJ Stander or Nathan Hughes would not be international class players without their three years in Munster and Wasps.

 

[McTallshort]

Goode was always going to be given a chance under Jones. Best it now, hopefully he has a stinker and gets hauled off after 30 minutes then we will never have to worry about him again.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Goode over Haley.......grim

Don't was quite excited about the idea of seeing the likes of Genge and Haley V Fiji

 

[ratsapprentice]

As for the three year rule I like that too, mainly because we use it well, but I think its fair to say that CJ Stander or Nathan Hughes would not be international class players without their three years in Munster and Wasps.

EHHH... not sure about that TBH, CJ was basically rejected and told to go away and be bigger, so it's a fair argument for him.

Not sure about Hughes, who basically just left the Blues academy to start playing regularly and be paid better. I don't see any real legitimate argument for him being stuck in a rut prior to coming to England.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

NZ 7s were after Hughes before he moved north so it's not like he came here an amateur player.



I'm hoping roko really takes this chance with both hands, God knows he's deserved it for a while.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Retract Hughes, I didn't know his story, my point should be along the lines of for every Hughes or Jarryd Payne there's a Stander or Richardt Strauss. As an Irish fan and a person whose parents don't identify as the nationality of the country they grew up in, UK, I'm 100% bias to the matter though!

 

[ratsapprentice]

I don't think most people are against qualification via residency, the issue is the 3 years not being prohibitive to exploitation.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Goode to score hattrick and show why he's the best fullback ever. He never translates club form and it's infuriating.
Roko will kill it and then never be picked again.

 

[Scotty]

25 man squad for Fiji game has been released...any ideas on the starting XV and where players like slade teo hughes will fit in to the 23. Will ford start or go for physicality of farrel at ten?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I found it odd that Jones has retained the bare minimum number of forwards (13, 8 starters + 5 subs) considering the question marks around Vunipola's health.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm hoping roko really takes this chance with both hands, God knows he's deserved it for a while.

This is what has me worried, I get the impression Roko is going to feel he has to play an absolute blinder or will be dropped again and will try to force things, that rarely has a good outcome. If the rest of the team struggles for whatever reason it is even worse and 1 mistake by Roko could see his head drop as he sees his England chances gone forever. I feel too much pressure is being applied because of him being consistently overlooked.

 

[Raggs]

NZ 7s were after him, but he wasn't getting offered anything more than an academy equivalent contract by the Blues, which is why he looked elsewhere.

He's refreshingly honest about the fact he moved for the money to secure his family's situation. He also states that he and his family (a Dutch woman and now a small EQP son) live in England, and that's where they intend to build their life, so whilst he accepts that cash is a big part of it, he also feels that he is in at least some part English now. If someone has decided to spend their life in England, with their family, beyond just their current contract (you can't tell me he couldn't have earned massive bucks in France, and still played for Fiji), then I support that. Although I intend to return to England in the coming years, I'd be proud enough to pull on the shirt of the country I currently live in, and would put my all into it.

I do agree that 3 years isn't enough, and it should be increased, but I'm more comfortable with someone coming here for 3 years, planning on living his life here with family, and qualifying and fighting for a spot, than someone coming to a nation on a virtual promise due to a grandmother they just discovered. Also, due to our split between Union and clubs we're in the fortunate position to know that anyone using the 3 years qualification process was not merely a targeted project player, where their express purpose for moving is to play for a country they've not even lived in (to start).

EDIT - 90% sure I read Vunipola has upper body bruising, so whilst he may be sore, it's not the sort of thing that stops him playing, nor would it be likely to lead to something more serious, it's not a tweaked hamstring etc. I'd guess as well that it'll be pretty much fine by the Fiji game.

 

[BPM]

So
Ewels
Harrison
Goode
Roko
Slade
Kept

Attwood
Genge
Haley
Loz
Morgan
Wood
Taylor
Yarde
Released back to clubs.

I'm disappointed to see Genge, Haley and Taylor released. I would have thought this was an ideal opportunity to bring them in and I would have liked to have seen all three on the bench to get 25-30mins in the second half.

Given Billy's 'upper body soreness', I would have rested him completely and kept Morgan too.

Slade'a retention is curious ... Farrell looks to have been training at 12 and Eddie seems to want to try Te'o while Daly and JJ are the obvious options at 13. I'm not quite sure where Slade fits in?

 

[Every Time Ref]

Bench I guess? Covering 10-13

 

[spartan32]

Looks like starting 15 is taking shape. Not sure about front row but probably not much change. Apparently Billy has trained fully now so likely to start at 8 with Robshaw and Hughes

Roko is almost certainly in for Yard, JJ may be in for Daly as he too is back in training at 13, Goode being suggested as starting over Brown. No mention of Teo at 12 but it would seem like the right time to try it. I rekon Slade on the bench for this one and maybe Faz getting a full rest with Ford taking the helm at 10. But who knows what goes through EJs mind

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-unio...-financial-thinking-behind-england-allegiance

Hughes is an idiot for mentioning it TBH.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-unio...-financial-thinking-behind-england-allegiance

Hughes is an idiot for mentioning it TBH.

Maybe, maybe not, but I like the honesty. Total contrast to some of the parasitic "Plastic Brits" in athletics who come here for the funding while waving the Union Flag for all they're worth. At least Hughes lives here and contributes to our domestic game.

The rules are bad, but you can't blame a player for playing the system, it happens in all walks of life. In my view professionalism means that playing for England isn't a privilege, but just the pinnacle of a professional career.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-unio...-financial-thinking-behind-england-allegiance

Hughes is an idiot for mentioning it TBH.

Personally I prefer the fact that he is up front about the money, although I feel the rule should be longer than 3 years. Wasps is what has given him financial security so I feel England should be for pride, not money.