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[November Tests 2016 EOYT] England vs. Argentina (26/11/2016)

That bloody Olly. He started this and then he runs off into the night like a robbers dog.
No, I just think it's funny watching you dig yourself deeper.
"We don't care that we got battered by Ireland, it doesn't count because we don't care!"
 
No, I just think it's funny watching you dig yourself deeper.
"We don't care that we got battered by Ireland, it doesn't count because we don't care!"
Beats we were ill, the ref did us in. There's always an excuse.
 
Jones I have one thing to say to you. Massive Tosh! This pretence that cocky SH supporters and teams have that playing the quaint NH is just a laugh is none sense. When NZ lost to Ireland they were shell shocked and gutted. And then Hansen called the next game a "must win". Not a "ah it doesn't matter too much" attitude. NZs most powerful weapon was at steak, their so called unbeatable aura (alongside their ability to cheat at a masters Degree level). Had they lost a second time blood would be in the water and Hansen new it.

Their are no "friendlies" in rugby. Especially not between the big teams. Sure there may not be any silverware to take home but the steaks are still high. It's not like teams are trotting out second string sides to play England or Ireland etc. Yes a few new faces come out but that's usually it (granted the NZ italy game was an exception).

I agree that the 6 nations needs looking at but not for the reasons you state. It's time we started rob being other nations, especially Georgia, into the fold and expand the influence of the game we love.

So NZ can sit pretty on their throne for now facing teams further down the table who are weakened through restructuring and injury. But make no mistake. England are coming for you, and hells coming with us.

Hmmn, not too sure about some of your points to be honest. I'm not too sure that many of us thought that tha All Blacks would go through 2016 unbeaten, at the start of the season, as we are rebuilding our team, just like everyone else.

Yes, we expect to win most of our games, regardless of who the playing personnel are, and two loses would probably be at least one too many, but I wouldn't say we were particularly shell shocked to lose to Ireland, given the closeness of the matches in recent years. That's not to say that we expected to lose, we clearly expect wins (yes,there are no friendlies as far as we're concerned) but the prevailing attitude here was that we'd rather lose to ireland than Australia, England, or South Africa.

Jones is right in the respect that the squad is managed to counter player fatigue (this is more to do with the timing of the end of year tours, rather than the opposition), and that the tours are used to blood new players/succession planning, and this is where the real strength lies, not some unbeatable aura (not even going to go there with your other comment) ... If we were playing England one week, and Ireland the next, you would undoubtedly see strong sides named to play them, but there would be some rotation in playing personnel.

He's also right about the importance that we put on the silverware, so while winning all test matches is the goal, losing the RWC, losing the Bledisloe cup, losing the Rugby championship, and losing a test match, are the order of importance for us.

Not sure where the throne things comming from either, aside from beating the opposition, we have very little in determining the rankings of the teams we play against, and unless the players were injured playing against us, we haven't had any influence on the availability of the opposition players either ... We have a few injuries to, by the way.

Yes, England are a very strong side that will undoubtedly be stronger by 2018 (as will the All Blacks), and on current form, should easily beat Argentina, although I'm hoping that the Pumas can play to their potential and then, who knows
Beats we were ill, the ref did us in. There's always an excuse.

To be fair, there are a couple of referees I wished would have dined at the same restaurant as the ABs from time to time :lol:
 
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Hmmn, not too sure about some of your points to be honest. I'm not too sure that many of us thought that tha All Blacks would go through 2016 unbeaten, at the start of the season, as we are rebuilding our team, just like everyone else.

Yes, we expect to win most of our games, regardless of who the playing personnel are, and two loses would probably be at least one too many, but I wouldn't say we were particularly shell shocked to lose to Ireland, given the closeness of the matches in recent years. That's not to say that we expected to lose, we clearly expect wins (yes,there are no friendlies as far as we're concerned) but the prevailing attitude here was that we'd rather lose to ireland than Australia, England, or South Africa.

Jones is right in the respect that the squad is managed to counter player fatigue (this is more to do with the timing of the end of year tours, rather than the opposition), and that the tours are used to blood new players/succession planning, and this is where the real strength lies, not some unbeatable aura (not even going to go there with your other comment) ... If we were playing England one week, and Ireland the next, you would undoubtedly see strong sides named to play them, but there would be some rotation in playing personnel.

He's also right about the importance that we put on the silverware, so while winning all test matches is the goal, losing the RWC, losing the Bledisloe cup, losing the Rugby championship, and losing a test match, are the order of importance for us.

Not sure where the throne things comming from either, aside from beating the opposition, we have very little in determining the rankings of the teams we play against, and unless the players were injured playing against us, we haven't had any influence on the availability of the opposition players either ... We have a few injuries to, by the way.

Yes, England are a very strong side that will undoubtedly be stronger by 2018 (as will the All Blacks), and on current form, should easily beat Argentina, although I'm hoping that the Pumas can play to their potential and then, who knows


To be fair, there are a couple of referees I wished would have dined at the same restaurant as the ABs from time to time :lol:

Ok this is the last I'm going to say on the matter as this isn't a thread about NZ.

The AB are a team comprised of some very skilful players, this cannot be denied. However a large part of any sport is psychology. Take Mike Tyson. He is famed for saying he would beat a guy before he even stepped into the ring. He had a strong psychological edge that would give him a significant advantage. Mix that with raw power and skill and he became unbeatable. The same could be said for NZ. Their perceived dominance puts teams in doubt before they even step on the pitch. Throw in the Haka, which provides another psychological boost to NZ, giving them the opportunity to enhance their mental position before they even start, and they are already on the front foot in a big way. It would interesting to see what would happen if they were prevented from doing the Haka before games, but that's a question for another time.

So in short NZ "aura" is arguably a critical part of what makes them so dominant. Should that be broken, and that psychological edge removed, they almost certainly would not be as dangerous. What is more, should their position as the "perfect rugby team" be removed, maybe refs would start to penalise them more appropriately, leading to a more level playing field over all.

A great example of how powerful the mental state of players can effect performance would be NZ inability for some time to win world cups, even though, on paper, they were the strongest side. The general line was NZ would choke on during critical games. Arguably they started to believe this and it became a self fulfilling prophecy.
 
Yup the aura of NZ is absolutely massive and their record is part of that. There is not another team in World Rugby I go into the match expecting England to lose everyone else I know if England play to their potential we'll likely come out on top or it be incredibly even even with our appalling record against SA I still can't think of one match where I though a win was unlikely. Everyone thinks that playing the AB's in recent years they've gone on multiple massive winning streaks. Losing a chink in you armor is huge especially when its an unbeaten record throughout history. Look at the demise of SA that started with Japan beating them, now every team is looking at them and going they're actually beatable and belive they can. Would Italy of beaten SA if they'd only lost to NZ and England in recent years? Probably not. NZ losing to Ireland will have perked up the players of other top Tier 1 nations as possibility to beat them. England would certainly be relishing the chance to give it go if they had a chance (they were anyway but now even moreso).
 
That's a pretty strong Argentine side, given that the current policy isn't to select players that don't play for a super rugby franchise or play their rugby in Argentina. I hope they can be competitive against England ... I won't be able to watch it unfortunately
 
How do you figure that?
We were no.1 heading into the AI's and we will be no.1 when they're done. It's not bravado or some such nonsense, its just mathematics.
The AI's are a bit of fun, they let touring teams blood new players and they can be a good earner but they're nowhere near as important as the Super Rugby ***le and the Rugby Championship ***le thanks very much.
They are not as important as the Bledisloe Cup.

Genuine question, 'cos I haven't followed that closely - How many new players have been blooded by the ABs this series?

I had always assumed that is how the SH sides viewed the AIs, with some years looking like almost training squads, but it doesn't seem to be so much the case for the Aussies this year and I had thought the ABs were pretty strong this year too (injuries not withstanding).
 
Also the curries look promising flankers coming up.

Very much so. Evans, Ludlam and Simmonds all have great potential, but seem to be limited to LV Cup games or 5min cameos at the moment and Underhill is still in Wales for the foreseeable future.

Both the Curry boys are forcing themselves in to the reckoning for Sale's first team squad which is massively impressive given their age.

Our current stocks of experienced, test calibre flankers is pretty low but to have 6 with genuinely excellent potential coming through is pretty exciting.
 
Both the Curry boys are forcing themselves in to the reckoning for Sale's first team squad which is massively impressive given their age.
One starting and the other on the bench this weekend.
 
When you look at the results the other RC sides have had maybe it's just that the RC isn't as good as people thought :p

This is actually the reality now.

SA are in a crisis, simple as that.

Aussie interest is at an all time low.

Argetina are a decent side, but have huge consistency issues and still lack some world class players to propel them into serious contenders for higher honours.

Meanwhile, the professionalism, massive interest, player pool, far superior domestic competition in Europe are paying off and the NH sides are professional hardened sides with loads of depth. Particularly Ireland and England and their future looks far better than any other Southern Hemisphere team aside from the All Blacks.

The All Blacks are sadly going to suffer from a poor RC.

So the AI's are VERY important to the All Blacks to measure their quality, progress and grow and improve as a team. England and Ireland are now our toughest tests and will be for the foreseeable future, unless the Bok sort their **** out and there's another golden age of sportsmen like the 1990's-2000's in Australia.
 
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Oh Makos, you've lost the plot again mate.

All the Poms have is the least changed team from the World Cup.
All they did was bring in an Australian coach because there isn't an Englishman who knows enough about rugby to run their own team.
First thing he did was make a Kiwi the English Captain. Now with their Aussie coach and their English captain they have managed to string a few wins together but its a long way from winning a RWC.

Olly is still so bitter he can't contain himself and his English arrogance comes bubbling out.
I can't wait till the 6 Nations when the Irish have a full side again and smash the powder puff girls into the dirt and send Mojo JoJo back to Oz.
 
Oh Makos, you've lost the plot again mate.

All the Poms have is the least changed team from the World Cup.
All they did was bring in an Australian coach because there isn't an Englishman who knows enough about rugby to run their own team.
First thing he did was make a Kiwi the English Captain. Now with their Aussie coach and their English captain they have managed to string a few wins together but its a long way from winning a RWC.

Olly is still so bitter he can't contain himself and his English arrogance comes bubbling out.
I can't wait till the 6 Nations when the Irish have a full side again and smash the powder puff girls into the dirt and send Mojo JoJo back to Oz.

Are you a troll or a idiot.

Mods - why hasn't this idiot been banned?
 
Ha Ha Ha
Screaming for the mods, how courageous of you.
Typical Pom, you can dish it out but you can't take it.
 
Who else is there? What would be the point in pulling up anyone else?
 

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