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[November Tests 2016 EOYT] England vs. Argentina (26/11/2016)

I can't see Binny being fit for next week, so who will come in? It needs to be a ball carrying presence. I wouldn't mind it being Morgan but I'm sure Hughes will be fit to take the role. In addition, Tom Wood has a cracking game, shame Harrison couldn't do similar.

Can I remind you that being positive about Wood is a serious contravention of forum rules? But you're right and if Binny is out next week then I'd want to see Morgan replace him, he's an out and out 8 with some of the specialist skills at the base that Hughes doesn't.
 
Good effort from England. Pity about Daly. Incredibly stupid play. All he had to do was compete for the ball in the air and all would have been fine, but in a funny way it helped to demonstrate how ,astute England have become. Able to adjust their game plan to deal with the unforeseen. May was excellent as was JJ and anoth r solid performance by Brown. Mako also was on top form with some lovely hands. All that being said the Argies looked very tired and off form. Even against 14 they never looked like much of a threat, so I'm. It going to get too over excited. Defence was much improved but still gaps that need plugging. Hartley tackling was not good enough, missed 4 I think. I'm starting to agree that we're he not captain George might be starting, but that's going to happen anytime soon.

Shame we didn't get to see the more of daly and that Teo and Slade were not able to be brought on sooner if at all, but I understand why they weren't. Billy's injury looked bad and must be a doubt for ne t week, which is a real blow. He's just such a threat and there's no one even close in terms of quality to replace him. Harrison has to go. He was useless at scrum time. When we needed a full 8 pushing he had his bloody head up worrying about the flanks. And he just looks like an out of place centre. Which should mean he moves fast around the field but he really doesn't seem to. The sooner we start drafting in some new blood the better.

I know it controversial but Wood was also great and thanks god he was there.

Lots to be positive about. Lots to improve on. Next weeks gonna be and really exciting game Methinks
 
You realise that he's a loose head and we're talking about the battle for the tight head shirt don't you?

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Thought it was a great reflection on him (and I guess the medical team and the coaches who put their faith in them) that he came flying up to put in a good tackle that put pressure on a promising Argentinian attack very late on.

Someone said Marler-George-Sinkler to start. I said mako wouldn't be dropped....
 
Also, as I'm sure it's gonna come up, about the cards. Daleys was red all day long and much deserved. The tackle on May in the air Could have been yellow, however I can see why the ref didn't go to the pocket as May did manage to land on one foot and suffered no injury. Although would have been interested to know if May had say twisted his ankle and had to go off would that have changed things? Finally the red for stamping was fine, not sure about the yellow for holding by Marler. The player he obstructed was not in a position to make any difference to the game, at most that was more a penalty that would have been reversed due to the red card.

In any event Daly can go down as the first English back in history to be red carded.
 
Completely forgot Morgan was on the scene, definitely want to see him brought it.
Was racking my brains earlier, was almost set on a token cap for Waldrom, we're that desperate for a carrier.
 
Morgan has a history of upping his game for England and if we get that again, I don't think we will miss too much. We will need to adapt our game as he can't make the hard yards billy can but he's faster and more agile. Not sure who I want out of Beumont and Morgan. Old reliable or try something new? They are pretty different 8's and both different enough to billy.
 
Very impressive from England being a man down. Just like EJ to have coached that scenario through. Rough day for the SH all round. Pretty grim EOYT by Argentina, a step below even their rugby championship form.
 
Defence is still frustrating.

Early on England's line speed was really good and I thought they looked like they were improving, brief flashes of wolfpack, but annoyingly it didn't last. I guess can put that down to losing a player in the backs, but missed tackles are still missed tackles, no excuses for that. May and JJ were absolutely brilliant in defence though, covering for the missing man between them pretty much impeccably - I can remember only one occasion where the lack of a winger was directly exposed, a kick into the space behind on the right which ultimately came to nothing. May for me takes man of the match based on giving a bit more in attack than JJ.

Overall pretty pleased with England's performance (although Argentina kind of made it easier with incompetence at times), worked hard and kept their shape well in defence, controlled the game intelligently even a man down and took their chanc. Daly no complaints from me, pretty peeved for Marler though. Holding on to a player on the ground is in absolutely no way a yellow card, it's technically a penalty but really when was the last time even a penalty was given?! Crap decision, absolute joke. Barnes going on about how it was justified because "he instigated it" was just moronic.
 
Just got to watch the game...

The red for Daly was the right decision as per the laws. No malicious intent, just a brainless error.

The penalty only for the Argentina tackle in the air on May was also the right decision. If May had landed off feet in his back then would have yellow, or on neck/head would have red. So I think it was the correct decision.

There have a been a few comments about the leaky England defence. I felt watching the adjusted game plan with 14 men actually showed a real improvement in the defence. Was always going to be tough, and immense credit to JJ and May for managing the space. (May was superb overall, and was MOM for me).

Again, the refereeing of the scrums is poor. The mess at the end of first half, was a mixture of deliberate illegal tactics by Argentina, not helped by England's inability to combat their tactics. Even after the yellow for Cole, the same driving in and across the hooker could be seen. If the referees are unable to understand what is actually going on, then England must adapt and know how to deal with different scrummaging tactics.

The stamp on Marler was a red, but I am not sure about the yellow for Marler? How often are players held around the breakdown anyway, it is never really penalised. So was this just the Ref having to Ginny the letter of the law? Or was the Ref wrong?

The injury to Billy looked bad, not able to walk and in obvious pain and frustration. The option has to be Morgan. I think Morgan has already spent a little time in camp with England this year, maybe just the initial wider squad meet ups, but nether the less it should mean he has some idea of the the plan for England game plan etc.

Morgan is lighter and is different to Billy. So I would like to see a more aggressive carrying option alongside him. Although Wood was very good in this match, for next week I would prefer Robshaw and Hughes to flank around Morgan and try to emulate the summer tactics of dominating not jackling.
 
When Vunipola went off it became glaringly obvious that we have no other carriers (Mako went off not long after). As much as I like Hartley and Cole's experience in the side, they were utterly outplayed by George and Sinckler, who are also so much more threatening. EJ should be looking to start at least one of them in the 6 Nations. A flanker that could carry would also be nice.
 
I would love to see us play
1) Genge
2) George
3) Sinckler

V Italy in the six nations at one point.

BUT i think you are underestimating how much the Argentina subs made aswell Creevy going off made the biggest difference IMO.

Also interesting you don't mention Marler?
 
Start Morgan and put Clifford on the bench.
Like Clifford a lot but we need someone who can carry in traffic and muscle up, Clifford's carrying is at its best when the game opens up a bit.


Wasps press release for their team announcement said Hughes is put with a toe injury - usually the type of ****ly injury to keep you out for a couple of weeks because it's hard to rest/needs to be 100% before coming back.
 
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