[November Tests 2016 EOYT] England vs. Argentina (26/11/2016)

[TRF_Olyy]

Think Marler and/or George had more impact on the scrums than sinkler, we won a penalty (with cole) as soon as they came on

 

[McTallshort]

What's the betting Marler is going to be cited for daring to stick his head underneath that players boot. Disgraceful behaviour!

Bet he mouthed argie barggie at him. Bloody bigot

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I wish that would happen, but who would want to play then in the Jaguars? It seems that the monetary difference is very large in favor of the European teams.

Suppose rock and a hard place.

Shame I know Leicester got very close to bringing Matera back, also Apprently looking at Isa at the same time.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Think Marler and/or George had more impact on the scrums than sinkler, we won a penalty (with cole) as soon as they came on

I don't think anyone is questioning that. Saying that, I don't think that's a terribly fair comparison. England were well under the cosh when Sinkler came on first. Didn't George and Marler's entrance coincide with Creevy's exit?

 

[j'nuh]

Not an exciting game, but one of the more impressive wins from an England POV. Although Argentina were pretty bad, to beat a Tier One team when down to 14 for most of the match is impressive. tbh, I think the scoreline slightly flattered Argentina. Had England not gone down to 13, Argentina were at risk of being nilled.

May's surely cemented an England spot and will be putting his hand up for the Lions now. His all-round game is excellent. The best defensive wing in England, and up there in attack too. The only criticism I have of him is his aerial game. He's fine on uncontested balls, but he's not great at competing. Considering how fast he can get up the pitch, if he had that in his arsenal, he could well be on the way to being a world XV winger.

Also, was May basically playing on both wings the entire game? It felt as if he was.

There aren't many England players in the 23 today that you would completely write off from the Lions. Happy times for an England fan.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Get he mouthed argie barggie at him. Bloody bigot

Watch the game in the pub by any chance?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

No chance we'll drop Mako, his hands and carrying are too valuable for us to drop him. Even if he doesn't dominate at scrum time.

Sink's not quite ready, but when he is I wouldn't want to see him and Mako in the same front row from a scrummaging perspective. Overall I think there's more to gain by playing Sink over Cole than to lose by starting Marler ahead of Mako. Still think Mako's better off the bench anyway and FWIW I prefer Sink's more direct explosive style to Mako's more dexterous skills.

When Binny went off today it was evident that we didn't really have any other forwards to break the gain line. Sink can do that and when he does it's not by inches.

 

[McTallshort]

Watch the game in the pub by any chance?

Yes...

 

[Aristodemus]

George is so much better than Hartley, it's such a shame he seems to have zero possibility of being first choice. No Maro or Binny severely weakens our pack for next week. Not very confident in the win, I really hope we can see out 2016 with all Ws!

 

[TommiG88]

JJ or May should have been MotM

 

[Mike Rolls]

So far I have only seen the highlights on BBC2, which often doesn't give anything like a true feel for the game (until I saw the whole game, I had assumed that England played well against South Africa - now I feel that it was just a case of SA playing even worse), but I did think that for much of the game England weren't playing 14 v 15 but 14v15 1/2. Daly's red card was totally deserved, but how come the very similar taking out of May in the air only warranted a penalty? The fact that he didn't land on his head or neck was totally fortuitous, yet was seen by the referee as a reason to be lenient. The yellow card for Cole seemed, to say the least, harsh and probably an error - to me it looked as though it was the Argentine front row who transgressed.
Mike

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

So far I have only seen the highlights on BBC2, which often doesn't give anything like a true feel for the game (until I saw the whole game, I had assumed that England played well against South Africa - now I feel that it was just a case of SA playing even worse), but I did think that for much of the game England weren't playing 14 v 15 but 14v15 1/2. Daly's red card was totally deserved, but how come the very similar taking out of May in the air only warranted a penalty? The fact that he didn't land on his head or neck was totally fortuitous, yet was seen by the referee as a reason to be lenient. The yellow card for Cole seemed, to say the least, harsh and probably an error - to me it looked as though it was the Argentine front row who transgressed.
Mike

The ref was deifnitely lenient. Argentina had 3 high tackles without a warning, a neck roll with just a penalty, repeatedly lying on the wrong side of the ruck and competing without supporting their body weight, crossing during the period where they were camped in front of our try line was ignored and the player not getting a card for taking the guy out in the air. Seriously there was a case for 1 or even 2 more yellows for Argentina that game, they got away with a ****ton of infringements. It took well into the second half for them to get a card for repeatedly collapsing the maul.

 

[FNS]

One case a player tackled both arms in the air. The other one with one arm and release quickly once he realized the mistake. In one play a player was not allowed to land in the other yes.

Pumas one should have been yellow and penalty not just penalty but no red.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

One case a player tackled both arms in the air. The other one with one arm and release quickly once he realized the mistake. In one play a player was not allowed to land in the other yes.

Pumas one should have been yellow and penalty not just penalty but no red.

I never suggested it should be a red but it was a yellow all day long. Combined with various other pieces of foul play, the Pumas were incredibly lucky not to have more cards, they were infringing all over the place, more than 1 of those were cardeable offenses.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

A minimum of one, no maximum, check the law book or cast your mind back to the penalty try conceded by Argentina.

I have to assume your grasp of sarcasm and irony is poor, at best.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I never suggested it should be a red but it was a yellow all day long.

B.ollocks.
Perfectly happy with the penalty try for you guys and with the red and yc against us, but that was no card. He landed his his feet first. His shoulder nor his head never touched the ground. If you don't like the rules blame WR.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

B.ollocks.
Perfectly happy with the penalty try for you guys and with the red and yc against us, but that was no card. He landed his his feet first. His shoulder nor his head never touched the ground. If you don't like the rules blame WR.

Having the tip of your toe touch the ground before the rest of you comes crashing down is hardly "landing on your feet". It was taken in the air with no attempt to compete for the ball, it should have been a yellow, otherwise you could theoretically have a player taken in the air with such force that they do a full flip and land feet first to get just a penalty. The only reason May didn't spin so much is because he jumped while standing still, had he been moving forward his momentum would have caused him to spin into a position where he would have landed on his back or worse. You think the penalty should be based on how much someone spins in the air and not the action of the tackler!? We had 3 cases of Argies grabbing and throwing English players round the neck yet only penalties, never a warning. How many times did you have to collapse a driving maul before you saw yellow?

Fact is Argentina were infringing all over the place and getting away with it, not even warnings. The no arms tackle? Just a penalty despite players seeing yellow for similar.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

As your post suggest, you missed the last 2 years of club and international rugby. Let me put you up to speed: when someone goes for a kick and is challenged, in 99% of the situations the ref's call will depend on the outcome regardless of intention or the agility to flip from the one being challenged. If you challege recklessly but the guy lands on his feet it will not be a red nor yellow but if you accidentally flip and while doing so touch the jumper, if he lands with his shoulders it will be a red (Stormers fans will remember this one!).
Rule of thumb is approx like this

Player lands on neck/shoulder (arm preventing this from happening included here too) = red *(watch yesterday's Leinster game, the chat betwen the ref and TMO should give you a pretty good idea)
Player lands back, stomach, knees = yellow
Player lands on his feet = penalty

If you ask me personally i think the rule is nothing short of ridiculous, but i unlike you, i am aware of it, i acknowledge it and understand it.

Fact is Argentina were infringing all over the place and getting away with it, not even warnings.

As opposed to being warned and not penalized for 4 consecutive scrum collapses?
Let me know when when you come back to reality from that parallel universe of yours.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

As opposed to being warned and not penalized for 4 consecutive scrum collapses?

Before being carded?
Sounds pretty standard, really.

How about all them dropped mauls without a whisper of a card?

 

[TommiG88]

After watching the game again, I feel Argentina got away with a number of yellow card incidents.

Marler getting booked was ridiculous, players get held illegally at most rucks, always have done. After all the infringing which I will bring up below and he gets the softest of yellows.

The ref had no control over the game, Argentina infringed constantly in addition to a few neck rolls, high tackles and the challenge in the air. Knowing now that you have to land on your side / back / head for the opponent to be either binned or sent off, we could see players making sure they don't put their legs down. If Daly's was a red, which I agree it should have been, the argentine player should have seen yellow.

The no.14 who was binned in the first half got away with a neck roll, which could have seen him have a second.

The sky commentating was embarrassing at times, a tad wax lyrical about Argentina's second try... it was against 13 men.

I can't see Binny being fit for next week, so who will come in? It needs to be a ball carrying presence. I wouldn't mind it being Morgan but I'm sure Hughes will be fit to take the role. In addition, Tom Wood has a cracking game, shame Harrison couldn't do similar.