New Zealand vs England (06/07/24)

[West Country Wail]

England can and should improve too. It's worth mentioning that the majority of the starting XV have only played once (vs. Japan) since mid May. There is rust to shake off there too.

I fully expect NZ to be better next week and I don't see them losing in Auckland. However, England should take a lot of confidence from yesterday so we should be going in to the game with the belief that we can win.

For a team that prides itself on research, at least now they have a Razor AB team to analyse. As said above, if TJ is out next week, that should makes things closer too.

I hope for another tight game.

 

[BPM]

I don't see it happening but if England could find a way to win at Eden Park it would be a massive result for Borthwick and this side.

 

[West Country Wail]

I don't see it happening but if England could find a way to win at Eden Park it would be a massive result for Borthwick and this side.

Double bubble in the history stakes!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

England can and should improve too. It's worth mentioning that the majority of the starting XV have only played once (vs. Japan) since mid May. There is rust to shake off there too.

Yes, but they're also at the end of a very very long season.

As you say, a win at Eden Park would be brilliant but unlikely.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

If tuipolutu is out with concussion that will also make a big difference in terms of our physical ability

I didn't quite catch it at the time, when it was mentioned one of the subs were for hia, but turns out it was finau and he should be fine. Even if not it won't be as big a loss as tuipolotu.

Yes, but they're also at the end of a very very long season.

As you say, a win at Eden Park would be brilliant but unlikely.

do English internationals get time together ffm during the year? Did you know that top all blacks tend to only play twelve non international games per year tops (actually I'm not sure if we had Exactly the same protocols this year, but this is how it has been in recent years) ?

 

[Which Tyler]

do English internationals get time together ffm during the year? Did you know that top all blacks tend to only play twelve non international games per year tops (actually I'm not sure if we had Exactly the same protocols this year, but this is how it has been in recent years) ?

ffm?

Yes, they get time together through the season - to play the November internationals and 6N

It's not as bad as it used to be, but eg. Maro Itoje played his 32nd match in 12 months yesterday (16 club, 16 international) and has already played over 2460 minutes

Picking some other names at random: Captain George has played 31, Stuart has played 34, Earl 30, Mitchell 31, MSmith 33, Slade 33, Freeman 34.
Of those, the 2 front rowers, and the SH are the only ones with <2000 minutes under their belts (and Mitchell will surpass it next weekend)

 

[BPM]

Yes, but they're also at the end of a very very long season.

As you say, a win at Eden Park would be brilliant but unlikely.

Sure - but my point was that the narrative has been that England are a settled side used to playing together vs. a new and unfamiliar NZ team with a new coach. Bits of it are true, but a lot of it is pretty inaccurate/overblown.

Borthwick is building a settled side, but yesterday was probably the 4th time that core group has played together so it's still early days and with a lot of players having only played once in 6wks before yesterday, they wouldn't have been at peak sharpness.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Some of the tackle counts are crazy
Lawrence 23
Martin 22
George 19
Earl 19 (Might be well he didn't carry as well)
Baxter 15
Freeman 13
Slade 12
Underhill 12
Smith 11
CCS 10
IFW 10
Stuart 10
Cole 10

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

My thoughts one where England should target for improvement:

- The scrum. It seemed we lacked power here and it was NZ driving early or simply not using the ball that made it seem more even. In an actual scrum contest, we were getting shoved backwards every time and didn't one shove NZ backwards.

- The blitz doglegs. It was clear our gameplan was to line up big hits and have key players rush out the line to target certain players in attack and try to disrupt them. We did put in some big hits but quite often what happened is a defender would shoot out of the line leaving a gaping hole, the target for the big hit would simply pass to a supporting player either side who would then target that gap and suddenly we are scrambling. I think we need to put less emphasis on single players trying to get big hits and more on the line as a whole getting up in NZ faces.

- Contestable box kicks. In the 2nd half practically none of our box kicking was contestable, allowing NZ to either run at us or time to choose where to place a kick. We need to either aim to get it out, contest the ball or clatter them when they catch it.

- Ruck defence. NZ threw bodies in the ruck and it was clear the ref was allowing a lot of diving off feet in the competition. We didn't react to this.

- Stop trying to force moves. Nearly every time we got to the 22 we started looking for wonder passes and forcing the game rather than just applying constant pressure. In nearly all cases this simply resulted in us losing the ball.

- Pay attention to which side of the ruck our own players are running back on. I noticed NZ were frequently running moves behind a player looking to get back onside, basically using them as a shield. We didn't react to this at all and it had the effect of taking one of our defenders out of play as they were blocked by our own player retreating.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Some of the tackle counts are crazy
Lawrence 23
Martin 22
George 19
Earl 19 (Might be well he didn't carry as well)
Baxter 15
Freeman 13
Slade 12
Underhill 12
Smith 11
CCS 10
IFW 10
Stuart 10
Cole 10

Not surprised Baxter was ****ed by the end after seeing that.

Tbh after defending for that much of the game it's actually very impressive that we only conceded 2 tries. Now just imagine how few we'd concede if we actually kept some possession…

 

[Kiwiwomble]

We've got to stop shooting up looking for big hits, it keeps opening up gaps that the ABs are clearly looking for.

They are waiting for it to then pop a pass to a supporting player to target the gap left.

interesting, the Kiwi Forum im on saw this the other way, the rush was causing us a lot of trouble, forcing us to play well behind the gain line and slowing the ball to our wings

i thought dmac was our best player, absolutely amazing passes that no one else in NZ can do were the key to being able to play as flat as the coaches were asking the team to play, plus his subtle deceptions to help get his passes around the rush defence we're awesome. And Let's not forget how brilliant he was under the high ball.

most/all the commentary ive seen goes the other way, a long way from his best, Jordie covering for him basically and straightening the attack, dmac basically a middleman

one of the big takeaways for me was perofeta, really hope he starts again, i want to get to the point where we reward people that step up

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I've never really thought of Furbank as being especially good in defence but he's been dominating some NZers today. His hit on Jordie early on the game was monstrous. Really making that 15 shirt his own.

He is.

Although watching live my impression is that he got isolated a few times when carrying. Continuity's a joint responsibility between carrier and support runners.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

TJ confirmed out

 

[Reiser99]

TJ confirmed out

Hopefully leaving him on for as long as they did, didn't do more damage. Should have gone off immediately.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Hopefully leaving him on for as long as they did, didn't do more damage. Should have gone off immediately.

if its his ACL then my understanding is you kind of cant, my surgeon said as much when i did mine, once its gone its gone. after mrs womble did hers she then got drunk at the races and fell down some stairs, rushed to see the surgeon and he said "i'm already getting in there to fix everything so theres not anything you could have done

 

[Which Tyler]

I know it's popular on here, so here's the minute-by-minute

New Zealand vs England - First Test minute-by-minute - RugbyRebels