Nation Eligibilty Catch-All Thread

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Del Fava, a third Italian player who appearst to have played for Italy while ineligible (great grandfather rather than father). Played in RWC 2007 and 2011. Wikipedia suggests the earliest he could have qualified on residency was 2012.

https://www.americasrugbynews.com/2...ces-as-not-having-been-eligibility-for-italy/

Again, not comparable to any RWC disqualification case from recent years.

 

[Which Tyler]

Same as one of the other Italians isn't it? In that he qualifies for Italian citizenship through the great-grandparent (and may easily have had a parent or grandparent or even himself -with an Italian passport but not residency), just not the rugby team.

I find that understandable, and still worthy of being punished/fined; but ultimately the statute of limitations has passed. Things were different then IRB took people at their word, in these cases, players were understandably/conveniently confused. If it doesn't come to light for 10+ years, then I'm not going to get my knickers twisted, and is very different to a post-clampdown world where relevant birth certificates are produced, and ineligibility comes to light within weeks.

Within the EU (I think, certainly the UK) the statute of limitations for an equivalent crime/misdemeanor in business / taxation is 7 years. Further back than that, I'm happy enough to say "got away with that one then"

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Same as one of the other Italians isn't it? In that he qualifies for Italian citizenship through the great-grandparent (and may easily have had a parent or grandparent or even himself -with an Italian passport but not residency), just not the rugby team.

I find that understandable, and still worthy of being punished/fined; but ultimately the statute of limitations has passed. Things were different then IRB took people at their word, in these cases, players were understandably/conveniently confused. If it doesn't come to light for 10+ years, then I'm not going to get my knickers twisted, and is very different to a post-clampdown world where relevant birth certificates are produced, and ineligibility comes to light within weeks.

Within the EU (I think, certainly the UK) the statute of limitations for an equivalent crime/misdemeanor in business / taxation is 7 years. Further back than that, I'm happy enough to say "got away with that one then"

Absolutely. The current total of italian players where evidence suggests they were falsely selected on the basis of citizenship awarded due to Great grandparent is now 8.

Dellapé, Pez, Canale, García and Di Bernardo are the 5 additions following research by others. None played in RWC2019 so this doesn't impact on qualification for RWC2023.

To think I supported Italy through these years when I was more authentically Italian than a sizeable chunk of the squad.

If nobody is identified following say RWC2015 then that is probably a sign the Italian union and World Rugby has got a grip on things in the intervening period. The question for me is more whether World Rugby knew Italy had screwed up but kept it quiet so they wouldn't be disqualified for say 2015 or 2019. There is an absolute stench around this.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Alex Jones/

The six nations put them up to this in hopes of a better italy pulling better ratings.

/unclip

All tier 2s should therefore be allowed to select anyone with vaguely fitting names for a period of 8 names at their choosing.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Evidence on 7 of the 'Italian' players using great grandparents.

Serious Eligibility Questions asked of more Italian World Cup players - Americas Rugby News

Italy and World Rugby face an escalating player eligibility scandal. Hot on the heels of Spain's dis

www.americasrugbynews.com

Suggestion WR will do absolutely nothing unless a formal complaint is lodged.

World Rugby not investigating claims Martin Castrogiovanni was ineligible to play for Italy

Exclusive: Debate over prop's qualification has put further scrutiny on eligibility laws, but so far no formal complaint has been made

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Which Tyler]

As before, all are longer ago than the statute of limitations.
All seem to be a confusion between being an Italian citizen and being eligible to play rugby for Italy.
None seem to be having an effect on current or future rugby.


These are All way, WAY less severe, and less relevant when found, than the cases in Spain and Romania etc

 

[ncurd]

Reading that it feels like the rules should allow citizens of a country under the countries citizenship laws.

I don't think its ideal at all but it will lead to this kind of mess in the future again I think if they don't.

Just to note I don't agree people with Great Grandparents should play for a country but if that's allowed for citizenship I don't see how you can argue someone can't play for a country that they are a citizen of.

 

[Which Tyler]

See, I think it's a good example of why I wouldn't want to go by citizenship.
Italy goes back 3 generations, France go back... well, how far they go back depends on where you're coming from. Germany, IIRC doesn't allow anyone on the principal of most recent relative (or is it doesn't allow anyone on the principal of residency?)


IMO qualification rules should be the same for everyone, not different for each country.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I said to punish the union by fining them.

They didn't break the eligibility rules when they qualified for the 2023 RWC. You can't just make up more rules to make up for the fact they got away with something.

So what? I am 99% sure WR has the discretion to penalize unions if they deem so. Think of it as the 'Acts contrary to good sportsmanship.' law. They never define what good sportsmanship is but they do apply it when and if they see fit.
I find it unlikely, unfathomable that WR doesn't have a provision like that in their statutes.

considering almost all crimes/torts (other than murder which I wouldn't compare to fielding an ineligible player, rather I'd say it's fraud) have statutes of limitations, they would face no repercussions whatsoeve

No. All crimes have statutes of limitation if and only if such statutes are directly or indirectly but explicitly stated. That doesn't appear to be the case here.
I used murder to exaggerate the point, but the logic stands. I didn't pick the argument, he did. I just applied his logic to something else to expose how those principles could very well end in disaster if applied blindly.

Yes but their punishment was void results that the player played in and a fine. Cant really void results because its to far in the past so all you can really do is a big fine for them.

I guess we fundamentally disagree on what one could do then. I can think of a few examples of other nuts they could have tightened.
The fact they chose differently is another matter.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

So in all of rugby's controversies at least the players have a small connection to the nation they represent.

Spain have really taken the **** at EuroBasket. The only eligibility requirement is citizenship so when their point guard (Ricky Rubio) went down with an injury an American (Lorenzo Brown) playing overseas (but never for a team in Spain) reached out and asked to join the team. The federation then pulled some strings and he's now a citizen and playing minutes. Absolute joke.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

So in all of rugby's controversies at least the players have a small connection to the nation they represent.

Spain have really taken the **** at EuroBasket. The only eligibility requirement is citizenship so when their point guard (Ricky Rubio) went down with an injury an American (Lorenzo Brown) playing overseas (but never for a team in Spain) reached out and asked to join the team. The federation then pulled some strings and he's now a citizen and playing minutes. Absolute joke.

Yup. Many rugby fans advocate citizenship as the rules for rugby. Push that through and we could see the dream of the Qatari Globetrotters XV joining the URC.

United Rugby Championship: Anayi keen to establish strong ties with Qatar

United Rugby Championship chief executive Martin Anayi has spoken about taking the first step towards establishing the competition in Qatar.

www.planetrugby.com

Thankfully I see no chance of a majority of World Council votes supporting citizenship given the move to extend the residency period.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Scotland eyeing a Wallaby with 14 caps.

Jack Dempsey close to decision on potential Scotland switch

Australian-capped back-row Jack Dempsey spent the summer thinking about the next step in his international career

www.theoffsideline.com

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Joke

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Always said that rule should only be for tier switches.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

That's now at least a third Scottish union position dedicated to putting Scottish Q players at the heart of the national side.

"as we aim to scour the globe to discover the best players eligible to play for Scotland and make a positive impact to both our club and international sides"

Logan Trotter and Edinburgh duo head to London Irish

Meanwhile, former Scotland flanker Peter Walton takes on player ID role with Scottish Rugby

www.theoffsideline.com

Why stop at the globe? Maybe there are some on the dark side of the moon and that's sure be more interesting than trying to cultivate some in your own back yard.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

That's now at least a third Scottish union position dedicated to putting Scottish Q players at the heart of the national side.

"as we aim to scour the globe to discover the best players eligible to play for Scotland and make a positive impact to both our club and international sides"

Logan Trotter and Edinburgh duo head to London Irish

Meanwhile, former Scotland flanker Peter Walton takes on player ID role with Scottish Rugby

www.theoffsideline.com

Why stop at the globe? Maybe there are some on the dark side of the moon and that's sure be more interesting than trying to cultivate some in your own back yard.

Really feel for the real Scottish fans having to put up with their plastic squad. No one seems to like things like this so can't see it helped Scotland over the long run.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Always fun and the author now includes all necessary information in order to form a reasoned opinion.

Foreign-Born / Produced Players in 2022 Six Nations - Americas Rugby News

The 2022 Six Nations Championship is the 23rd edition of the competition since expanding to include

www.americasrugbynews.com

Conclusions from me are:
- huge increase year on year in imported players (roughly 20% increase in one year)
- France and England have no case to answer.
- Ireland have slipped back a bit in terms of being up there with England and France, but it's not too bad
- Wales and Italy disappointing, but not getting worse
- Scotland have more players selected by grandparent rule than the rest of the 6N combined (13 vs 8)
- Scotland have more players selects by grandparent rule than the rest of Tier1 combined (unconfirmed but odds-on to be accurate)

 

[Welsh Exile]

Always fun and the author now includes all necessary information in order to form a reasoned opinion.

Foreign-Born / Produced Players in 2022 Six Nations - Americas Rugby News

The 2022 Six Nations Championship is the 23rd edition of the competition since expanding to include

www.americasrugbynews.com

Conclusions from me are:
- huge increase year on year in imported players (roughly 20% increase in one year)
- France and England have no case to answer.
- Ireland have slipped back a bit in terms of being up there with England and France, but it's not too bad
- Wales and Italy disappointing, but not getting worse
- Scotland have more players selected by grandparent rule than the rest of the 6N combined (13 vs 8)
- Scotland have more players selects by grandparent rule than the rest of Tier1 combined (unconfirmed but odds-on to be accurate)

The fact they include faletau, Carter, Tshiunza and Jon Davies is a joke, though. They're Welsh. Even Anscombe isn't a pisstake as his mum is Welsh, like Rowlands and his dad so too Johnny Williams.

Only **** takes are Mcnicholl, Halaholo and Tompkins and Mcnichol doesn't play and Halaholo can't stay fit.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

yeah I think ARN are trying to show that Canada and US relying on foreign borns isn't that different than Tier 1s. Or it's written by the South American writer and they have a very different view on eligibility.

I would like to see the age that people gain residency and not the year as without their birthdate it doesn't mean much.

Scotland's 27 players is probably more players overall than France used in the non-Italy matches.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Cappuozo is the first generation of his family to be born in France. Italian father, mother from Madagascar, never played underage for France.

I find cases like this incredibly reasonable.

Of our 7 I currently only think Treadwell and Hansen shouldn't play for us having repped other countries 20s, they played for another country as an adult. JGP, Aki and Lowe all got in two years prematurely and probably would be in the French or Japanese set ups if not for the old rule but 5 years residency is fine by me, enough to get citizenship here whilst being born here isn't on its own.