most overrated player and team in the 6 nations

[Robert Prosser]

Most overrated team - Wales and most overrated player - George North. I think they have a great style of play, but they're just not as good as people say the are - the WC, they lost 3 games, almost lost 4 and only really had to beat Ireland to make the semis. I still think Wales will win the triple crown and possibly the 6N, but England, Scotland, Italy and Ireland don't have particularly strong teams. England I guess are a bit of a unknown and could potentially do well.

George North is a player who is going to do damage against weak teams like Scotland. People were waxing lyrical about him during the WC, but it was only in games like the Fiji game that he seemed to shine. Wingers of his height, build and speed are pretty common in the Southern Hemisphere and I doubt he'd make many inroads against teams like ABs. Don't get me wrong, he's a good player, but he's not the 'next Lomu....'

He is not the next Jonah he is the one and only George North and just against Fiji he has shined you didnt watch the same world cup as me then I think, I am sure he scored 2 tries on his debut against South Africa, and has scored 10 tries in 18 caps with tries coming against Argentina, England, Ireland etc, he has scored 2 tries in 5 games against southern hemisphere teams which isnt bad considering he is what 19 years old, he his not overrated just rated because of his obvious potential.

Anyone who compares him to Jonah Lomu dont know didly squat about rugby because for me they are completely different types of players yes they are both big lads but they play the game differently.

Why is it when someone has pontential to be great at something people try to compare them to the best in the world at certain points, its crazy, when can players just be them selves and people enjoy watching them instead of saying hes the next Lomu or hes the next so and so its just pure madness, players like Lomu are one of a kind and people should stop comparing people to them and let them get their one legacy.

anyway rant over now.

Please do, because Lydiate is much more than just a tackling machine, although he certainly is awesome at that. He's a complete workaholic, and exactly the kind of player every teem needs in their ranks. He may not be flashy, or make huge searing breaks, but he's one of the best tacklers out there (not big hits, but low tackles that gets every player down early and behind the gainline), his defensive linespeed is awesome (although was verging on the offside against Scotland, play the ref and all that), he hits stupid amounts of rucks, and carries the ball in the tight. Isn't that the perfect blindside?



Faletau is probably overrated by some Welsh supporters (and Jiffy), but he's still a great player at just 20y/o. He had a barnstorming WC, but has been a little quieter this 6 nations so far. People have to remember that he had the most carries and the heighest tackle count of anybody at the WC (that included zero missed tackles). He's also a great support player, as demonstrated against Scotland when Roberts made a break. His work off the back of a scrum is also top notch, especially if you consider what his platform is at the Dragons.

For a 20y/o, he's an increadible player. I fully expect him to become one of the best 8's in the world. He's not far off already. And no his inadequacies aren't covered by Lydiate and Warbs.

Well said couldn't of put it much better myself.

 

[coonor]

If we was the best 10 in Europe why cant do it week in and week out for Ireland don't blame kidney because its not him its just sexton chokes at international level, i blame sexton for the loss against wales he went for a 50 meter kick when he should have kicked for the corner and retained possession as we were winning at the time, and don't get me started on his kicking at the rwc and all the miss kicks against wales very overrated yet to prove himself at international level.

Firstly as mentioned in previous posts it wasn't his choice!

I think the decision to go for posts was right and if the same thing were to happen again I would again choose for a shot at goal. Lots of Ireland fans disagreed with the decision but thats only because he missed. It was within his ranged and you have to back him, at this level every point is needed and when an opportunity comes to take 3 points in a situation like that they should be taken. besides that, who said he would make touch? He may have missed and Wales could have counter attacked and scored a try. You never know....

 

[Feicarsinn]

We didn't lose that game because of Johnny Sexton's kicking, it was the manner in which we played that cost us the result. I'd be very reluctant to blame any of the players. Here's a few guys I think are over rated:

Tom Croft: Fantastic for the Lions, not been up to much since truth be told. I, like a lot of people around here, would drop him, shift Robshaw to 6 and play Seymour.

Joe Ansbro: A competent centre, but that's about it. He's probably good enough to play in a good Heineken Cup team, but I don't think he's anywhere near as good as some Scots seem to think. Such is the dearth of decent Scottish back as of late that he's been played up a bit. I compare him to Kev McLaughlin if you get what I mean.

Fergus McFadden: Again, a competent centre but nothing to write home about. Some see him as Ireland's long term 12, but I don't think so. His passing game leaves a lot to be desired and his defence isn't top notch. A very good club player, but not a starting international to me.

Conor Murray: Before the Munster boys get their knickers in a twist, I'm not saying he's a bad player. He's pacey and has a pretty nice pass. Pretty good defender too. Problem is he runs the ball too much, his kicking game is poor and he's ponderous at the back of the ruck. I think he's like a better version of Tomas O'Leary, but still not my kind of 9. The Irish media jizz all over him for some reason though.

Paul O'Connell: Quality player, not the fantastic leader he's made out to be. Poor decision maker.

Toby Flood: He'll travel as a Lion, which is a touch sad. I see nothing special about his game. Alright kicker, alright passer, alright with ball in hand. Holding the jersey until Freddie Burns is ready, nothing more.

Mike Ross: Over rated for the fact that we didn't have a TH who knew you're not supposed to stand up in the scrum. Good in the scrum, getting better in the loose, but he's no Adam Jones.

Ryan Jones: Ineffective at lock and while he's regained some of his former talent, I still think he's past it. I could see him being replaced in the next season or two. Out of interest, whatever happened to Alex Popham?

Courtney Lawes: He's going to be phenomenal, but unlike a lot of the English press, I don't think he's there yet. Could do with working on his hands.

 

[Me 1]

Ryan Jones: Ineffective at lock and while he's regained some of his former talent, I still think he's past it. I could see him being replaced in the next season or two. Out of interest, whatever happened to Alex Popham?

If I remember correctly he retired because he couldn't find a Welsh club that would take him after leaving Brive, although come to think of it, there might have been injury problems involved too.

Btw, for some reason it's Alix

 

[TRF_Cymro]

If I remember correctly he retired because he couldn't find a Welsh club that would take him after leaving Brive, although come to think of it, there might have been injury problems involved too.

Btw, for some reason it's Alix

He had a shoulder op whilst at Brive, failing to recover from that and on medical advise he retired last year.

 

[Seaton]

Joe Ansbro: A competent centre, but that's about it. He's probably good enough to play in a good Heineken Cup team, but I don't think he's anywhere near as good as some Scots seem to think. Such is the dearth of decent Scottish back as of late that he's been played up a bit. I compare him to Kev McLaughlin if you get what I mean..

Lies! Ur jis jelly u dnt hv Him

 

[Peat]

Tom Croft: Fantastic for the Lions, not been up to much since truth be told. I, like a lot of people around here, would drop him, shift Robshaw to 6 and play Seymour.

Since pretty much everyone thinks that but me, I fail to see how that makes him overrated. Well, me and the coaching staff I guess...

 

[Feicarsinn]

Since pretty much everyone thinks that but me, I fail to see how that makes him overrated. Well, me and the coaching staff I guess...

Guscott said he was a world class operator the other day. Then again, Guscott is a buffoon.

 

[Peat]

Guscott said he was a world class operator the other day. Then again, Guscott is a buffoon.

Well, quite. Even I have to admit he's been so-so for quite some time; he's shown world class briefly, but a while back. I think he's returning to form, and offers more than Wood at his best, but there is no doubting that when Wood returns there'll be some battle and Wood might take it on form. Which, if it happens, is fair - I favour starting with the most talented players, but you work your way down from there and find who's playing well.

I am tempted to put Tom Wood in on the overrated pile, but if I was to nominate one English player who I think is well overrated at the moment it would be Dylan Hartley. I'm not sure who I'd call underrated as an English player, since consistency is in such short supply its very difficult to argue for any of them.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

Draggs. Who overrates Healy apart from possibly me? Most seem to like you underrate him. He didn't exactly get minced by Jones this time and is a capable and rapidly improving scrummager. His workrate is very high maybe not quiet at Jenkins level but name another prop that is.

I think Healy is a good player and possibly underrated by a lot of non-Irish supporters. I think comparing him to Gethin Jenkins is Pointless however as he doesn't have the potential to be nearly as good as Jenkins. It's like trying to compare Jon Davies to O'Driscoll.

Most of what I was going to say has been covered in other posts,but if you Think Ireland lost that matc because of that kick you must have forgotten about Tommy Bowes drop into touch which lead to the Davies try or a couple of dodgy refereeing calls.

Or the fact that Ireland were totally outplayed by Wales and the 2 point difference doesn't represent Wales' huge superiority in the game.

 

[Draggs]

Yeah, O'Driscoll will just never have the Turk pride that Foxy has...
I just don't think Healy is that good. I can remember him almost literally folding in half against Adam Jones in October in one scrum, and simply undeserved of much of his hype. I just don't see what the fuss is about. Many (planet rugby...) consider him to be the best loosehead.

Regarding Faletau, his sheer workload seems to be often ignored, making tackles everywhere for 80 minutes. He is no where near Kieran Read level yet, but has certainly shown some promise.
Ryan's biggest issue is his loss of pace. In 04/05 he was very quick (Scotland, 2005 match) and a dynamic ball carrier. Now he is more of a tackler, but he gives it 100%. Good player to have on the bench.

I think in certain aspects Rhys Priestland is overrated. Don't get me wrong, he is a talented lad, but not the complete product yet. His kicking is off and on and decision making questionable. That being said, he has very good vision and looks comfortable will ball in hand, and also works excellently with our midfield.

Leigh Halfpenny has been underrated for so long, and now beginning to be noticed. He was always behind Shane (for some understandable reasons) but he has always been a consistent player who puts himself on the line. Since he has moved to fullback he has looked even better, and it will help his development.

I have to add Luke McLean in as another underrated player. Whether at wing or fullback he always gains ground and has good positioning. It is a very tough call between him and Masi for 15, but will certainly take over from him in a few years.

 

[Zed]

He is not the next Jonah he is the one and only George North and just against Fiji he has shined you didnt watch the same world cup as me then I think, I am sure he scored 2 tries on his debut against South Africa, and has scored 10 tries in 18 caps with tries coming against Argentina, England, Ireland etc, he has scored 2 tries in 5 games against southern hemisphere teams which isnt bad considering he is what 19 years old, he his not overrated just rated because of his obvious potential.

Anyone who compares him to Jonah Lomu dont know didly squat about rugby because for me they are completely different types of players yes they are both big lads but they play the game differently.

Why is it when someone has pontential to be great at something people try to compare them to the best in the world at certain points, its crazy, when can players just be them selves and people enjoy watching them instead of saying hes the next Lomu or hes the next so and so its just pure madness, players like Lomu are one of a kind and people should stop comparing people to them and let them get their one legacy.

The Lomu comment was tongue in cheek - every time a winger bigger than 6' comes on the scene, the media pull out that comment "he's the next Jonah Lomu". And I've heard this a few times about North. He's scored 10 tries, but that includes teams like Namibia & Fiji which flatter his stats. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a good player, but he doesn't justify the hype. Maybe later on he will.

 

[Stoney21]

The Lomu comment was tongue in cheek - every time a winger bigger than 6' comes on the scene, the media pull out that comment "he's the next Jonah Lomu". And I've heard this a few times about North. He's scored 10 tries, but that includes teams like Namibia & Fiji which flatter his stats. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a good player, but he doesn't justify the hype. Maybe later on he will.

still think your being a little harsh on the kid, if you only look at games against top 10 teams he has got 6 tries in 12 games plus 1 gaiast the baabaas. 1 every two games isn't a bad ratio.

 

[coonor]

North obviously has a long way to go to reach the same level as Lomu, Williams etc but for his age and from what i've seen he certainly has the potential to go a long way. Comparing him to Lomu is abit of media hype but he could reach the same level as Lomu. At the moment he is most certainly international class and is developing at an unbelievable rate..... who knows he could become even better than Lomu!!! Why limit his potential?

 

[psychic duck]

Yeah, O'Driscoll will just never have the Turk pride that Foxy has...
I just don't think Healy is that good. I can remember him almost literally folding in half against Adam Jones in October in one scrum, and simply undeserved of much of his hype. I just don't see what the fuss is about. Many (planet rugby...) consider him to be the best loosehead.

Regarding Faletau, his sheer workload seems to be often ignored, making tackles everywhere for 80 minutes. He is no where near Kieran Read level yet, but has certainly shown some promise.
Ryan's biggest issue is his loss of pace. In 04/05 he was very quick (Scotland, 2005 match) and a dynamic ball carrier. Now he is more of a tackler, but he gives it 100%. Good player to have on the bench.

I think in certain aspects Rhys Priestland is overrated. Don't get me wrong, he is a talented lad, but not the complete product yet. His kicking is off and on and decision making questionable. That being said, he has very good vision and looks comfortable will ball in hand, and also works excellently with our midfield.

Leigh Halfpenny has been underrated for so long, and now beginning to be noticed. He was always behind Shane (for some understandable reasons) but he has always been a consistent player who puts himself on the line. Since he has moved to fullback he has looked even better, and it will help his development.

I have to add Luke McLean in as another underrated player. Whether at wing or fullback he always gains ground and has good positioning. It is a very tough call between him and Masi for 15, but will certainly take over from him in a few years.

great post Draggs, which I mostly agree with

I was watching the Wales match last weekend with somebody and they said "Faletau is having a quiet match", yet you're right he is a tackle machine, he missed 0 at the World Cup by the way, quite impressive

agree about Ryan Jones, he put on a lot of weight during one of his injuries and his been too slow since, the 2005 Lions tour days are long behind him, he is still a decent player but not World Class, and is now a better 6 or 4 than number 8

Jonathan Davies is one I would put forward as a bit overrated

the problem with Luke McLean is that his defence is very poor and Italy are already have too many poor tacklers in their backs, he hasn't been getting in the Treviso team this season

 

[cyRil]

The Lomu comment was tongue in cheek - every time a winger bigger than 6' comes on the scene, the media pull out that comment "he's the next Jonah Lomu". And I've heard this a few times about North. He's scored 10 tries, but that includes teams like Namibia & Fiji which flatter his stats. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a good player, but he doesn't justify the hype. Maybe later on he will.

I don't understand how a 19-year-old who's won 18 caps, scored 10 tries (including 2 against the World Champions on his debut), has generally been really impressive against the opposition he's come up against and is a shoo-in for a Lions Test wing spot can be disregarded as not worth the hype...? It just doesn't add up to me - do you watch much rugby?

 

[HowieLO6]

Tom Croft: Fantastic for the Lions, not been up to much since truth be told. I, like a lot of people around here, would drop him, shift Robshaw to 6 and play Seymour.

Toby Flood: He'll travel as a Lion, which is a touch sad. I see nothing special about his game. Alright kicker, alright passer, alright with ball in hand. Holding the jersey until George Ford is ready, nothing more.

Aside from Croft's pace, his option as a geniune lineout threat is possibly one of the reasons he's still around. Burst onto the scene, but has gone for the usual England career route of fizzling out.

 

[Seaton]

I don't understand how a 19-year-old who's won 18 caps, scored 10 tries (including 2 against the World Champions on his debut), has generally been really impressive against the opposition he's come up against and is a shoo-in for a Lions Test wing spot can be disregarded as not worth the hype...? It just doesn't add up to me - do you watch much rugby?

I'm trying to guess where he is from, Aus maybe?

 

[SoRadical]

First underrated Six Nations player that comes to mind for me is Alessandro Zanni. He's an awesome defender, particuarly around the edges of the breakdown. The guy pretty much throws himself at every loose ball too, regardless of the danger he puts himself in by doing this. Pity he won't ever get much in the way of recognition though. Parisse will always be lauded by fans because he's a, "flash" loose forward, (Don't get me wrong, Parisse is obviously excellent) while Zanni his partner is more of a gritty, hard working flanker. The fact that he plays for Italy and Treviso doesn't help his case for acknowledgement either unfortunately. He's also come at a time when Europe is filled with quality 6's, Ferris, Lydiate, Dusatoir etc.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm trying to guess where he is from, Aus maybe?

England