Melbourne Rebels v British and Irish Lions (25/06/13)

[dullonien]

Yeah playing against who? would like to see those stats

Look at the link jockstap posted for overall stats prior to the first test. Against who? This is where it all get's a little messy, how do we really compare like for like when some games have been easy, and others more challenging (including conditions)?

Toby Faletau for example. Played in the easy BaaBaa's game, although conditions were difficult, but also played in some of the more challenging games, including the Brumbies match which I'd argue was the most challenging game for a number 8 to play (outside of the test), as the front five were dire.

 

[j'nuh]

Look at the link jockstap posted for overall stats prior to the first test. Against who? This is where it all get's a little messy, how do we really compare like for like when some games have been easy, and others more challenging (including conditions)?

Toby Faletau for example. Played in the easy BaaBaa's game, although conditions were difficult, but also played in some of the more challenging games, including the Brumbies match which I'd argue was the most challenging game for a number 8 to play (outside of the test), as the front five were dire.

This is precisely why I take those stats with a pinch of salt. Sample size (number of games) is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too small to say anything reliable about the future.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

Lions fans were great last night, very few empty seats left, in fact a record crowd for rugby union at AAMI park (28000 odd).

I didn't think the Rebels would win the game but we did show a few glimpses of good play as well as a few brain farts. it was easily the rebels toughest opponents and I thought the lions did 3 things really well, scrum, maul and offload. I think the rebels were unlucky with the scoreline, they should have at least put 10 points on the lions, a missed penalty and the try that was called back as well as some good lions defence close to the line. In super rugby, Ged Robinson in particular and the other forwards will almost always score from 5M out, that just wasn't an option last night.

I know all of this chat is about the lions and test spots, but did anyone rate any of the Rebels players last night?

 

[Zed]

Not sure about Zebo being better. Not saying he was bad at all, cos he wasn't but it looked at times his stepping and twisting was confusing our players let alone the Rebels defenders.

Yeah he seems to have this annoying habit of getting the ball, slowing down and then accelerating, trying to confuse the opposition. It's a little trick a lot of Maoris seem to do and it can be effective, but it wasn't working for Zebo.

 

[lynam1104]

I know all of this chat is about the lions and test spots, but did anyone rate any of the Rebels players last night?

The sub scumhlaf was impressive as was luke jones off the bench.

 

[Tony Manx]

One would ask the question is anyone interested in the dirt trackers now the first xxiii picks itself and the unbeaten record has gone?!!

Ah the old sarcasm wins again!!!
I am afraid the call for changes will mostly go unheeded.........do not see any changes to the xv but could see Bowe/kearney move on to the bench. one could make a strong case for Young's instead of Phillips starting but will Gatland listen? Probably not.....

 

[SuperEagle]

did anyone rate any of the Rebels players last night?

The scrum half sub looked sharp and had a lot of gas? Why did he not start?

 

[Scott Watkins]

Lions fans visiting Melbourne, come and join us at parkrun, Albert Park. 8am this Saturday. We're having a Wallabies and Lions themed run. http://youtu.be/vzc7SMTA5yM

 

[Ospreylian]

For the second test, people are saying that Tuilagi should come in at 12, but part of me thinks this is just hitting the panic button. Davies has had a great tour, has been the best centre, and has done a lot of the hard graft that has gone unseen. For those who say he is not physical enough, I can't really understand this. From what I saw in the first test he provided the Lions with a hell of a lot of front-foot go forward ball, and just generally set up the platform for the rest of the backs. I don't think anyone could criticize his passing this tour either, I think he's answered his critics in that department. His defence was superb too. Here's a few examples of the above mentioned things (doing a Psychic Duck here ) :

 

[Peat]

Jiffy Jr has been very good these last couple of games and in the ordinary course of things I would not recommend changing things. There does seem to be a general agreement though that our ball carriers did not make enough meters, that we need to be making bigger impacts. At which point you have to look at Tuilagi in the centres, and Davies would always be the victim there. Right call? Honestly don't know.

Part of me wonders if the problem isn't simply Phillips playing like a drain.

 

[j'nuh]

Jiffy Jr has been very good these last couple of games and in the ordinary course of things I would not recommend changing things. There does seem to be a general agreement though that our ball carriers did not make enough meters, that we need to be making bigger impacts. At which point you have to look at Tuilagi in the centres, and Davies would always be the victim there. Right call? Honestly don't know.

Part of me wonders if the problem isn't simply Phillips playing like a drain.

I would definitely lean towards the Phillips thing. I think when up against top defences, guys like Tuilagi cannot really expect to break tackles as often or as effectively as he does against weaker teams (especially at 12), and if he doesn't have that, the threat he poses is very much mitigated. I think that good control over multi-phase play is the key to opening up a top team like Aus, and the scrum-half is effectively the only player to make the decisions on multi-phase play. Tuilagi can be incorporated well into multi-phase play, but I don't necessarily think it's his strength (ball-crashing in the tight). In other words, I wouldn't have too much of an issue with Tuilagi starting, but don't think he'd necessarily make that much of a difference. On the other hand, I think that if we had a Genia around, he would transform the Lions into something beastly.

 

[Draggs]

Phillips seems to have a knee injury (and indeed it did look that way in the first test) so he could be out.

 

[Tony Manx]

Phillips seems to have a knee injury (and indeed it did look that way in the first test) so he could be out.

Then it would have to be the Oik...........................not Murray pretty perlease!!

 

[Ospreylian]

Sure it's been said many a time, but... Why the hell isn't Laidlaw out there??

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He's not 32ft tall and 29st, so he's not what Gatland likes in a back.*


*Realistically: Gatland was going to take 3 scrumhalves, and it was always going to be Phillips, Youngs + 1 more. Murray is more Gatland's type of scrumhalf, so won over. I would've taken Laidlaw, especially as it'd ease the 10 situation a bit, but oh well!

 

[Amiga500]

Heaslip has made more meters but out on the wing (where back rowers should be....not), Faletau makes the hard yards. Back to the stats.....my back row, it would never get picked, but well balanced and backed by the stats.

This is absolute bull***** of the highest order.

You must be one of these people that hang on every word the Sky clowns say without actually watching the match at all and absorbing what goes on in front of your eyes.

About 5 years ago Heaslip marauded around in centre-field and wider channels. Now he is one that does the tight work exceedingly well. Stuart Barnes still has Heaslip's try against France in 2009 in his head and that is what he thinks everytime someone mentions Heaslip's name.

 

[Groundhog]

Not sure if you have seen Heaslip play since 2009 Butty, but he's become a real workhorse, who attacks really well around the fringes, quite the opposite to Faletau who genuinely can be found in the backline making carries, where he apparently should not be. There's nothing wrong with taking ball in the backs though, Faletau works really well under that system and can be used to make a lot of yards. Try actually watching the work Heaslip does next time you watch him.
On J.Davies, he's been hugely impressive for me, and I would hate to see him dropped. He's run well, and offloaded brilliantly. He's had a few real moments of brilliance, and he's good defensively too.

 

[Ospreylian]

There's nothing wrong with taking ball in the backs though, Faletau works really well under that system and can be used to make a lot of yards.

Not to mention his value as a defensive back-row forward. The amount of tackles he puts in per international game always seems to be very high, along with his tackle completion rate. Against the Rebels (according to ESPN Scrum, which can obviously be unreliable sometimes), Faletau apparently made 13 tackles and missed 1 - he was second only to Lydiate, who we all know is best known for his defensive capabilities (he made 15 completed tackles). He also had by far the most defenders beaten during the game too, with 6. Also had 2 turnovers, so is good for the brekdown when you need him.

All in all though, I would be perfectly happy with either Heaslip or Faletau atm. They're both hitting a run of good form and have their individual pros.

 

[McTallshort]

High tackle count? great work rate? Are we saying then that Faletau is more a 6 than an 8? right ok so if Robshaw is more a 6 than a 7 making him a 6 1/2 then Faletau would be a 7! Thats it then our new "fetcher" or "jackal" is Faletau, Tallshort you are a selection genius and a backrow guru they may even give me a job on sky sports along side Scott "post code lottery!" Quinell

 

[munstermuffin]

People will make great cases for both 8's but both are playing excellent and Heaslip deserves start in 2nd test as he's man in control of jersey. I am 1 of Heaslips biggest critics but will defend him and say while I think he was lucky to make tour he's a form man who played his way on to team