Loophole in Eligibility laws welcomed news for Pacific Island Nation

[Thingimubob]

Something just came to mind with all this switching possibilities, aren't the lines a bit blurred when it comes to the British nations? Think I might need someone to help clear up a few issues I can think of?

I'm assuming I'm correct in saying to make the switch, you need to hold a passport of the country you wish to switch to, then play for them in an Olympic qualification event (the 2014/15 IRB 7s Series/the following Regional Qualification Tournament/final Repêchage Tournament)? Problem is, a British passport obviously covers England, Wales, Scotland and NI (though the IRFU have already taken NI out of the equation Olympics 7s wise), so does that mean a player from NZ, SA or wherever, that holds a UK passport and fits the criteria, can cherry pick whichever Home Nation that'll have him in the search for International Rugby?

Added to this complication is the fact that Team GB's nominated "lead nation" for qualification is England, due to them finishing above Wales and Scotland in the 2013/14 Sevens series. Therefore even though all of the other teams playing with them in the 7s Series will be trying to get into the Olympics, Wales and Scotland won't actually be part of the qualifying event.
Does this then mean that the loophole isn't available for them, and will only be available for England/whatever team is nominated as "lead nation" in future qualification events?

 

[IKALETAHI]

Heard that Nadolo is actually an Australian, how did they let him slip away

Nadolo played for the Australian 20's and couldnt crack a Super Rugby contract he played for Randwick in the shute shield before leaving for Japan.

 

[Patchey]

How can them being born in NZ, raised in NZ and trained in NZ mean they were lost to the PI's?! This weird notion will just never die.

Did you not understand why I put quotation marks when I said they'd 'lost' them?

 

[donmcdazzle]

Was his name Willie Lose He would be the only Tongan born in NZ who cant speak the language who put his hand up for a WOrld CUp. You have Kurt Morath from NZ who obviously didnt do it just to play in a World Cup and he is a half cast.

Na he is a guy in the current Tongan team, but I won't name names.

 

[Sam Owen]

Then we'll see an end to this BS about Tongan born NZers claiming they are Tongan first.
If you're Tongan first; all good. But don't come to the NZRFU for free rugby development.

I dont mean no disrespect but I can imagine the Tongan tokos just laughing at your quote while they put their boots on and run on to training. I can also imagine you not saying that to their faces lol.

"Hey mate, you're really good, are you gonna play for Tonga?..oh you shouldnt play rugby in New Zealand then." - who does that?

Seriously it just falls on deaf ears 'cos Tongan P.I players will continue as they are and with the freedom that makes New Zealand beautiful.

These new conditions of yours, would you really be looking to enforce them yourself? Thats the question if thats what you believe as you have stated above.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I dont mean no disrespect but I can imagine the Tongan tokos just laughing at your quote while they put their boots on and run on to training. I can also imagine you not saying that to their faces lol.

"Hey mate, you're really good, are you gonna play for Tonga?..oh you shouldnt play rugby in New Zealand then." - who does that?

Seriously it just falls on deaf ears 'cos Tongan P.I players will continue as they are and with the freedom that makes New Zealand beautiful.

These new conditions of yours, would you really be looking to enforce them yourself? Thats the question if thats what you believe as you have stated above.

Errr, all union owned pro outfits?

 

[Sam Owen]

Errr, all union owned pro outfits?

No, as it states. Flukey is saying in his statement, clear as day, plain English.. don't come to the NZRFU for free rugby development if you're going to play for Tonga not exactly those words but you get the picture.

This is at grass roots level, where it all starts.

Then I replied if he believes in that is he willing to tell the Tongan rugby players that? Thats it!

Hope you got it now..

Also in "New Zealand" Tongans any P.Is can come here and play and no pro outfits says you cant play here if you want to play for Tonga or Samoa (e.g. Japanese halfback for Highlanders, Tanaka?) Yeah so...

 

[Feicarsinn]

No, as it states. Flukey is saying in his statement, clear as day, plain English.. don't come to the NZRFU for free rugby development if you're going to play for Tonga not exactly those words but you get the picture.

Then I replied if he believes in that is he willing to tell the Tongan rugby players that? Thats it!

Hope you got it now..

Makes sense. NZRU pays for the development of these players, why offer them academy spots or Super rugby contracts if they're going to bugger off and play for another nation? Putting a clause in their super rugby contracts that ties them to the All Blacks sounds like a perfectly reasonable idea to.

Anyway, these new laws are farcical. Having players play for multiple nations only serves to damage the credibility of the international game.

 

[donmcdazzle]

No, as it states. Flukey is saying in his statement, clear as day, plain English.. don't come to the NZRFU for free rugby development if you're going to play for Tonga not exactly those words but you get the picture.

Then I replied if he believes in that is he willing to tell the Tongan rugby players that? Thats it!

Hope you got it now..

Why wouldn't he? Because he might get beaten up? This isn't a schoolyard mate. His logic is essentially; why would the NZRU invest in players, to the point of selecting them at national level if they are then going to flag it and play for another nation.

And yeah, quotas for foreign players exist in some competitions for exactly this reason. We've covered the ground of how much good the NZRU does for the island teams a million times so we don't need to do lap 87 on that topic.

 

[Sam Owen]

Errr, all union owned pro outfits?

What about Tanaka for the Highlanders? did the pro outfit say to him he shouldnt play for the Highlanders 'cos he's going to play for Japan not to mention other overseas internationals playing in NZ based franchises.

I rest my case.

Why wouldn't he? Because he might get beaten up? This isn't a schoolyard mate.

Who said it was? Did I say that or did you? Just calm down with that one please. I'm just saying theres a lot of talk but would he walk it? Dont think so.

Errr, all union owned pro outfits?

Err, just wondering if Alesana Tuilagi plays for a pro outfit and if so does that team restrict him to play for the Manu. Hmmm?.. I wonder..

 

[Feicarsinn]

What about Tanaka for the Highlanders? did the pro outfit say to him he shouldnt play for the Highlanders 'cos he's going to play for Japan not to mention other overseas internationals playing in NZ based franchises.

I rest my case.

Well that's a terrible comparison.

Firstly, Tanaka didn't come through the New Zealand Juvenile system; he'd had four or five years in the Top League and had come through the Japanese university system before he went to play in New Zealand, so there was comparatively little investment in him. Secondly, the Highlanders knew exactly what they were getting in Tanaka - a player that was ineligible for the All Blacks. This contrasts with the situation we're discussing with the islands where a player may sign up for one of the Super Rugby sides having given the NZRU the impression that he wants to play for New Zealand, takes advantages of the system by availing of the high standard of play and facilities/training on offer, then buggers off to play for one of the island nations essentially having sold the NZRU a false deal. Or even if he picks up a cap or two he can turn around in 18 months time and line up again the All Blacks. Why should the New Zealand system serve to strengthen their rivals?

Of course there are room for quotas of non New Zealand qualified players in the Super Rugby sides, but their responsibility is to first and foremost develop players for the All Blacks. If a player wants to play for one of these sides he should make clear his international intentions from the outset, and it would be best for the NZRU if they did so via a clause in their contract. That means that should one player say he's going to play for Tonga and one for New Zealand the franchises know who to focus their (limited) resources on.

It's the same reasons that there are no (or at least, none spring to mind) Welsh, Scottish, French or English players at the Irish provinces or in the academies. Why would we spend our money strengthening their hand?

 

[IKALETAHI]

Yea I dont doubt how good a developing ground NZ has been and will be in the future. Binding someone in a contract to play for NZ is no problem with me, Because this only binds them for the duration of their contract. Players like Jack Lam and Alapati Leiua Ben Tameifuna Tim Nanai Williams all cases of players who had intent of playing for NZ, but swapped or are looking to swap over.

The misconception that Kiwis get from what ive said in regards to the polynesian players. Im not saying they dont want to play for NZ or dont want to be a New Zealander. Take Valerie Adams for example most arguably New Zealands most succesful athlete. When she won women's sports person of the year last year and gave her acceptance speech in Tongan even though she won the award representing New Zealand. She did this because of the pride she has for being Tongan, the spiritual bond she has for Tonga. No one would question her pride for being a kiwi there is just a bond some cultures have to where their blood is from.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Err, just wondering if Alesana Tuilagi plays for a pro outfit and if so does that team restrict him to play for the Manu. Hmmm?.. I wonder..

Alesana Tuilagi plays for Newcastle, who are not owned by the RFU. Please read my posts properly if you're going to try and pick holes in them.

 

[Sam Owen]

Totally understand what you're trying to say Sinn. Your reply to my post to flukey (who seem to come and rescue a lot lol) sounded like you were tryin to get at me so I gave you examples that obviously NOT all pro outfits restrict overseas internationals from playing for their team.

Good point about Tanaka not being consistent with the kind of situation we're referring to. My bad, you got me but I think were straying away from what me and flukey are really on about.

Its clear cut what hes saying, theres no need to stray down other avenues and say if you look at flukeys from this perspective or I think flukey meant this and that...no, no, no, just no excuses. Its clear cut what hes saying.

Regards to your question, of course not from an international test team standpoint but for the clubs, they only care about their club when it comes to competition time, so they'll field whoever that'll help them win.

Alesana Tuilagi plays for Newcastle, who are not owned by the RFU. Please read my posts properly if you're going to try and pick holes in them.

Sinn thats something you shouldve done when you negative repped me for something I didnt do and I later PROVED it with TRF moderators that I had not brought race into our debate and showed clear evidence of the REAL culprit. They now KNOW FACT! You jumped the gun without reading the facts when you neg repped me.

Anyway, I didnt know that about Tuilagi but theres other players as well to which pro outfits dont care if they're comin up the system and then leaving to play for another country. Some pro outfits have strong suspicions this would be the case and still name them in the line up.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Sinn thats something you shouldve done when you negative repped me for something I didnt do and I later PROVED it with TRF moderators that I had not brought race into our debate and showed clear evidence of the REAL culprit. They now KNOW FACT! You jumped the gun without reading the facts when you neg repped me.

Anyway, I didnt know that about Tuilagi but theres other players as well to which pro outfits dont care if they're comin up the system and then leaving to play for another country. Some pro outfits have strong suspicions this would be the case and still name them in the line up.

That's some pretty sweet deflection right there.

 

[Sam Owen]

That's some pretty sweet deflection right there.

Where did I deflect? You ask me to do something you didnt do yourself. You still havent apologised for your mistake and yet I can admit when Ive made an error.

Do you want me to P.M you the proof about how you were wrong before? or you willing to "deflect" that?

Then we'll see an end to this BS about Tongan born NZers claiming they are Tongan first.
If you're Tongan first; all good. But don't come to the NZRFU for free rugby development.

I dont mean no disrespect but I can imagine the Tongan tokos just laughing at your quote while they put their boots on and run on to training. I can also imagine you not saying that to their faces lol.

"Hey mate, you're really good, are you gonna play for Tonga?..oh you shouldnt play rugby in New Zealand then." - who does that?

Seriously it just falls on deaf ears 'cos Tongan P.I players will continue as they are and with the freedom that makes New Zealand beautiful.

These new conditions of yours, would you really be looking to enforce them yourself? Thats the question if thats what you believe as you have stated above.​

 

[IKALETAHI]

Yea I dont doubt how good a developing ground NZ has been and will be in the future. Binding someone in a contract to play for NZ is no problem with me, Because this only binds them for the duration of their contract. Players like Jack Lam and Alapati Leiua Ben Tameifuna Tim Nanai Williams all cases of players who had intent of playing for NZ, but swapped or are looking to swap over.

The misconception that Kiwis get from what ive said in regards to the polynesian players. Im not saying they dont want to play for NZ or dont want to be a New Zealander. Take Valerie Adams for example most arguably New Zealands most succesful athlete. When she won women's sports person of the year last year and gave her acceptance speech in Tongan even though she won the award representing New Zealand. She did this because of the pride she has for being Tongan, the spiritual bond she has for Tonga. No one would question her pride for being a kiwi there is just a bond some cultures have to where their blood is from.

 

[TheCrossover]

I find it hilarious that people are crying foul over players that might not even be used by NZ or Australia. "We're not using them.. BUT BUT BUT you can't either!!!" hahaha

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yeah - because it's not club rugby.

It's international rugby - if playing for a nation isn't the pinnacle of your career then you shouldn't be doing it.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I find it hilarious that people are crying foul over players that might not even be used by NZ or Australia. "We're not using them.. BUT BUT BUT you can't either!!!" hahaha

So every player in NZ, Aus, SA, England or whoever outside the national squad should be fine to go play for someone else?! you realise how that would make a joke of the international game right?