Loophole in Eligibility laws welcomed news for Pacific Island Nation

[iINDOMINUSxx]

no point keeping that there as it look stupid here and its already been posted apparently so yeah i'd just delete that off here

 

[SelimNiai]

wait why is this merged with this ? my topic does not only relate with tonga nor the pacific isles i mean france and scotland/england too.

I moved it because I deemed the content to be close enough to this thread.

 

[squirrel]

Timani to play for Tonga is taking the **** for me, he was a first choice wallaby until he moved to France this year.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

I moved it because I deemed the content to be close enough to this thread.

oh ok, soz for snapping at you.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

ImScotty, you do ask a relevant question though in who would you like to possibly see jog out for your own country...

I can't think of anyone I'd actually want even if it weren't for the 18 months rule. I might be missing someone though. The SA guys playing elsewhere I could think of;

Rob Herring - Ireland
Richardt Strauss - Ireland
Robbie Diack - Ireland
Dan Vickerman -Aus
Brad Barritt - England
Matt Stevens - England
Daniel Coetzee - France
Antonie Claassen - France
Bernard le Roux - France
Quinton Geldenhuys - Italy
Justin Melck - Germany
DTH van der Merwe - Canada

Strnagely enough the only one I'd consider is DTH van der Merwe but he is such a fixture in the Canada side and iit'd just be ridiculous considering him coming over TBH.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

ImScotty, you do ask a relevant question though in who would you like to possibly see jog out for your own country...

I can't think of anyone I'd actually want even if it weren't for the 18 months rule. I might be missing someone though. The SA guys playing elsewhere I could think of;

Rob Herring - Ireland
Richardt Strauss - Ireland
Robbie Diack - Ireland
Dan Vickerman -Aus
Brad Barritt - England
Matt Stevens - England
Daniel Coetzee - France
Antonie Claassen - France
Bernard le Roux - France
Quinton Geldenhuys - Italy
Justin Melck - Germany
DTH van der Merwe - Canada

Strnagely enough the only one I'd consider is DTH van der Merwe but he is such a fixture in the Canada side and iit'd just be ridiculous considering him coming over TBH.

what about Moritz Botha from saracens ? there's a few scottish fellas from south africa eg Greig Tonks, WP Nel, Cornell du Preez etc.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

what about Moritz Botha from saracens ? there's a few scottish fellas from south africa eg Greig Tonks, WP Nel, Cornell du Preez etc.

Still, we have better at home.

 

[psychic duck]

This was brought up a few years ago - and it's bang on. It would be ridiculous to see Joe Rokocoko and Sitiveni Sivivatu run out for Fiji - and the reality is they have great wingers anyway, many of whom didn't get released by clubs in the last World Cup. Same for Tonga. They need resources and IRB support in terns of getting players released - not a quick boost of ex-All Blacks. I think I changing eligibility laws to allow teams to play for one nation would make international rugby meaningless for me.

Fiji aren't likely to bother for the reasons you say. They already have the Top 14 leading try scorer, Premiership leading try scorer, 2nd highest Super Rugby try scorer, they are stacked at wing.

Also people need to realise that the players have to play Sevens in Olympic qualifiers to switch nations. More teams might use players who might help their Sevens chances than have any chance of making a difference at Union level. Obviously though, Samoa and Tonga will benefit the most from this as so many of their eligible players are in New Zealand.

There was one point you brought up isn't quite true though. The looser rules of 90's with dual nationality definitely helped Samoa, of course having better players available helps, that's really the whole reason Samoa and Tonga have picked up a bit in recent times too. And player release? In the past maybe, but not currently, Samoa would not be beating Wales, Australia, Scotland etc if vast swathes of their players were missing. I would be surprised if the Islanders were anything less than full strength at the World Cup, and I would also suggest the issues you reference surrounding Fiji's 2011 RWC campaign had little relevance to their results. They had Nalaga and Goneva as wingers at that tournament.

 

[IKALETAHI]

http://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-news/ex-all-blacks-confirm-pacific-island-switch-6039491

Players Like former All Blacks Anthony Tuitavake, Sam Tuitupou, and Former Wallabies George Smith and Mark Gerrard, Current Super Rugby Players like Ben Tameifuna are now eligible for Tonga. Epi Taione has had great feedback from players who will lodge applications to swap over in time for next yrs World Cup.

Samoa will be particularly Strong and be a massive threat at Next years World Cup. WIth a squad full of class already and So many players likely to make the switch from Super Rugby level, Add in Former All Blacks Like Lelia Masaga, Isaia Toeava, Neemia Tialata and John Afoa You have a side who with the right preperation can really scare the Big Guns.

Good Times for Pacific Island Rugby who Give so much to the sport of Rugby for such small nations

 

[LittleGuy]

This change is ludicrous, I'd rather not have 7's at the Olympics than have a whole pile of elegibility changes. I remember the mid 90's when players could change countries and it was just as stupid then.

Nation-switching, project players, grandfather rules....uggghhhhh.

 

[IKALETAHI]

Good news for the Islands what this means is players who play Super RUgby who are of Polynesian decent wont hold out for an All Black Jersey in fear of losing out on the opportunity. This is already happening now with the big money in Europe starting to lure players away from NZ. Players like Ben Tameifuna, Tim Nanai Williams, and Lima Sopoaga are likely to play for the Islands

think of Samoa's possible Backline next yr

15.Isaia Toeava (Former All Black)
14.Lelia Masaga (Former All Black)
13.Tim Nanai WIlliams (Waikato Chiefs)
12.Alipate Leiua (Wellington Hurricanes)
11.Digby Ioane (Former Wallaby)
10.Lima Sopoaga (Otago Highlanders)

 

[LittleGuy]

Are we going to see a bunch of ex AB's and Wallabies given joke run outs on the 7's circuit next year due to this? Like float into one event play for 5 minutes than become eligible for the RWC. This is a farce, maybe Brock James can get in the French team as well for 2015.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Good news for the Islands what this means is players who play Super RUgby who are of Polynesian decent wont hold out for an All Black Jersey in fear of losing out on the opportunity. This is already happening now with the big money in Europe starting to lure players away from NZ. Players like Ben Tameifuna, Tim Nanai Williams, and Lima Sopoaga are likely to play for the Islands

think of Samoa's possible Backline next yr

15.Isaia Toeava (Former All Black) - born in Samoa, raised in NZ and a product of NZ rugby
14.Lelia Masaga (Former All Black) - born in NZ, raised in NZ and a product of NZ rugby
13.Tim Nanai WIlliams (Waikato Chiefs) - born in NZ, raised in NZ and a product of NZ rugby
12.Alipate Leiua (Wellington Hurricanes) - born in Samoa, raised in NZ and a product of NZ rugby
11.Digby Ioane (Former Wallaby) - born in NZ, raised in Aus and a product of Aus rugby
10.Lima Sopoaga (Otago Highlanders) - born in NZ, raised in NZ and a product of NZ rugby

Why are you ok with this?

 

[IKALETAHI]

Why Not im not questioning where they were born. Even if they were born in NZ or Australia they still are of Polynesian decent. With no history of Generations living in NZ. Samoan and Tongas move for a better opportunity to provide for their Families. How are you not ok with this? If these players wanna play for the countries they hold full blood connections for why not?

 

[donmcdazzle]

Why Not im not questioning where they were born. Even if they were born in NZ or Australia they still are of Polynesian decent. With no history of Generations living in NZ. Samoan and Tongas move for a better opportunity to provide for their Families. How are you not ok with this? If these players wanna play for the countries they hold full blood connections for why not?

Because without the investment of the NZRU they wouldn't be nearly as good as they are. The island countries have had pretty much nothing to do with their development as rugby players and yet keep on reaping the rewards. This already happens and now this stupid loophole allows it even more so.

The island countries aren't the only countries that people emigrated to NZ from. Richie McCaw probably has "full blooded" (what does that even mean?) ancestry from the British Isles. If he turned around and played for England at the next world cup I'm sure it would strike you as not right. Exact same thing for these guys.

 

[nickdnz]

I don't believe in a magical 'blood connection' BS. My grandparents are all English. I was born in New Zealand. I am a New Zealander. If someone feels so compelled to the place of their grandparents birth that they consider themselves from that place, then they should go and live there..

I agree - I'd rather not see 7's in the Olympics than the joke of a system that this will open up.

 

[IKALETAHI]

Because without the investment of the NZRU they wouldn't be nearly as good as they are. The island countries have had pretty much nothing to do with their development as rugby players and yet keep on reaping the rewards. This already happens and now this stupid loophole allows it even more so.

The island countries aren't the only countries that people emigrated to NZ from. Richie McCaw probably has "full blooded" (what does that even mean?) ancestry from the British Isles. If he turned around and played for England at the next world cup I'm sure it would strike you as not right. Exact same thing for these guys.

Full Blooded in these players parents are full blooded Samoan or Tongan. Players like Jonah Lomu,Sione Lauaki, Sam Tuitupou, Sona Taumalolo, Ben Tameifuna all consider themselves Tongan all have parents who were born in the Islands they havnt been living in NZ for generations like the European population. All these guys speak fluent Tongan. They call themselves Tongans. Totally different to the Europeans of NZ its hard to explain because its a different culture, Polynesian Islanders are proud people. The 2000 Tongans that showed up the airport in NZ would have held NZ passports but still call themselves Tongan.

Regardless of this loophole this was always going to happen Ben Tameifuna who many would argue should be in the All Blacks has been considering playing for Tonga and making more money in Europe with Bundee Aki also leaving I feel talented Polynesian islanders were going to chase bigger money in Europe once established in Super Rugby and end up playing for the Pacific Islands or their new adopted country.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I have to say I feel NZ has benefitted as much from PI players playing rugby in NZ as they are benefitting from it now.

Other than that I totally get where IKALETAHI comes from with his statements; a people/nation and a country can be two totally seperate things particularly since countries aren't homogenous in terms of being 'nations' anymore for the most part. In that sense Jews throughout the world see themselves as Jews first and then as Americans or Polish or whatever. Are you saying they should all f*** off to Israel? Same here. I have no problem with this. Genes, culture, traditions, language etc are a far stronger bond than what in many cases comes down to random geographic borders.

 

[Tony Manx]

Well I think it is great that these players will get to assist "The Islands'" teams in the RWC and other competitions as it can only strengthen the competition, make them harder to beat, stimulate more interest there and encourage younger players even if I am not sure whether having to go through the hoops of playing 7's to do it is a good thing....Tialata in a 7's comp...you cannot be serious!!!

 

[IKALETAHI]

This is what im trying to get at. As a Tongan the most exciting thing isnt the fact we are getting ex All Blacks, it's that young polynesian kids in NZ and Australia will no longer hold out for an ALL BLACK jersey. In saying that this is where international rugby was heading anyways. With the All Black jersey no longer keeping players in NZ over the bigger contracts in Japan and Europe.