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Lions and Sharks flirting with pro14

Before the Cheetahs and Kings moved to the Pro 14, I thought talks of a move north for any SA teams was merely a negotiating ploy and wouldn't be followed through upon. Now that these teams have jumped, I firmly believe if it's a success and brings more revenue in for the SARU, others will follow. Money talks. Timezone is a huge benefit for them too.
 
Its not always about the money. If it was, there would be no professional rugby players left in New Zealand, Australia or South Africa; they'd all be playing in France.

It would take a LOT of money to convince me to live in Europe or the UK... I'm talking several tens of millions.
 
Before the Cheetahs and Kings moved to the Pro 14, I thought talks of a move north for any SA teams was merely a negotiating ploy and wouldn't be followed through upon. Now that these teams have jumped, I firmly believe if it's a success and brings more revenue in for the SARU, others will follow. Money talks. Timezone is a huge benefit for them too.

Ulster 42-19 Cheetahs
Scarlets 57-10 Kings

Not looking promising so far, and even worse for the Cheetahs, their Currie Cup side lost 45 - 15 to the Natal Sharks because many of their players are away in Europe. How does that story go again, the one about trying to chase two rabbits?
 
It is an unfortunate and unavoidable result of the short timeframe in which this decision was taken, possibly combined with a general underestimating of the quality of the Pro12 (with arguably the strongest pool of Irish, Scottish and Welsh players in the professional era, as reflected in their international rankings in the past couple of years).

Better to chase two rabbits than be unable to chase any rabbits for 9-10 months of the year. If anything, I think the Pro12 sides handing out some beatings to the SARU sides might make the SARU more relaxed about a move north and alleviate concerns that their players won't be tested if they don't play NZ clubs.

Of course this could all change when the SA sides play at home (although personally I don't think they are in a position to compete this year).
 
It is an unfortunate and unavoidable result of the short timeframe in which this decision was taken, possibly combined with a general underestimating of the quality of the Pro12 (with arguably the strongest pool of Irish, Scottish and Welsh players in the professional era, as reflected in their international rankings in the past couple of years).

I'm not buying the lack of preparation time excuse. These players have recently finished 15 rounds of SR, and had a good break before beginning the prep for Currie Cup, a competition every bit as tough as any in the world.

Better to chase two rabbits than be unable to chase any rabbits for 9-10 months of the year. If anything, I think the Pro12 sides handing out some beatings to the SARU sides might make the SARU more relaxed about a move north and alleviate concerns that their players won't be tested if they don't play NZ clubs.

How long does the PRO14 run for.... 26 rounds. I wonder how the Cheetahs and Kings players will be feeling after they have spent more than half the year travelling between Europe and the Republic.
 
I'm not buying the lack of preparation time excuse. These players have recently finished 15 rounds of SR, and had a good break before beginning the prep for Currie Cup, a competition every bit as tough as any in the world.



How long does the PRO14 run for.... 26 rounds. I wonder how the Cheetahs and Kings players will be feeling after they have spent more than half the year travelling between Europe and the Republic.
Kings

15 Malcolm Jaer, 14 Wandile Mjekevu, 13 Berton Klaasen, 12 Luzuko Vulindlu, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Lionel Cronje (captain), 9 Louis Schreuder, 8 Andisa Ntsila, 7 Tyler Paul, 6 Chris Cloete, 5 Wilhelm van der Sluys, 4 Lubabalo Mtyanda, 3 Ross Geldenhuys, 2 Michael Willemse, 1 Mzamo Majola

Substitutes: 16 Martin Bezuidenhout, 17 Schalk Ferreira, 18 Dayan van der Westhuizen, 19 Irne Herbst/Mzwanele Zito, 20 Thembelani Bholi, 21 Rudi van Rooyen, 22 Masixole Banda, 23 Waylon Murray/Yaw Penxe

Southern Kings team:

15 Masixole Banda, 14 Yaw Penxe, 13 Berton Klaasen, 12 Luzuko Vulindlu, 11 Sibusiso Sithole, 10 Kurt Coleman, 9 Rudi van Rooyen, 8 Andisa Ntsila, 7 Victor Sekekete, 6 Khaya Majola, 5 Dries van Schalkwyk, 4 Jurie van Vuuren, 3 Rossouw de Klerk, 2 Michael Willemse (captain), 1 Schalk Ferreira

Substitutes: 16 Stephan Coetzee, 17 Luvuyo Pupuma, 18 Entienne Swanepoel, 19 Bobby de Wee, 20 Siyabulela Mdaka, 21 Godlen Masimla, 22 Ntabeni Dukisa, 23 Jacques Nel
Cheetahs

15 Clayton Blommetjies, 14 William Small-Smith, 13 Francois Venter (captain), 12 Clinton Swart, 11 Raymond Rhule, 10 Fred Zeilinga, 9 Tian Meyer, 8 Niell Jordaan, 7 Oupa Mohoje, 6 Uzair Cassiem, 5 Reniel Hugo, 4 Carl Wegner, 3 Johan Coetzee, 2 Joseph Dweba, 1 Ox Nche

Substitutes: 16 Reinach Venter, 17 Charles Marais, 18 Tom Botha, 19 Armandt Koster, 20 Junior Pokomela, 21 Chris Dry, 22 Ruan van Rensburg, 23 Niel Marais

Cheetahs: S Petersen; R Specman, W Small-Smith, A Mgijima, M Mapimpi; C Blommetjies, S Venter; C Marais, J du Toit, J Coetzee; J Basson, R Hugo; P Schoeman, H Venter, N Jordaan (capt).

Replacements: T van Jaarsveld for Du Toit 52, T Botha for Benjamin 66, R Bernardo for Marais 52, G Olivier for Hugo 69, T Meyer for S Venter 64, C Afrika for Mgijima 50, R Benjamin for Blommetjies 45.

These are the teams from the last round of super rugby (posted first) and the games this weekend, a massive change in personnel is seen in both so I wouldn't proclaim that super rugby was great prep for this tournament. In addition to this it wasn't as if the Kings and Cheetahs were playing slouches, they were playing last year's champions and fifth placed side away respectively, looking at similar fixtures in last year's super rugby the Kings lost 54-10 to the Lions, tournament runners up if not necessarily the second best team, and the Cheetahs lost 50-32 to the Blues, another side who just missed out on a playoff spot. (Obviously this isn't an exact science but it does give an indication to the level of the SA teams) A fair analyst is also unlikely to consider the success of such a grand and disorganised change based on the first round of play, it's fair to say that the success or failure of this move for the Cheetahs and Kings won't be known for at least a couple of seasons.

To counter the apparent negative of these results, I can't say I remember a first round of the pro 12 which was covered as vastly as this one, all but one of the matches was easily accessible to viewers in Britain and Ireland on television, Sky covered two matches, all the news outlets took interest in the South African team and, using this thread and personal experience as an example, it got everyone excited about what is normally a fairly depressing round of matches. If this can continue and more more money is made South African club rugby is coming to Europe sooner rather than later.

The pro 14 is also a 20 game regular season with three playoff matches at most, these franchises will have had a hugely successful season if they can be in playoff contention in what is a very competitive league which has seen 4 different winners in the last 4 years.
 
the pro 14 is also a 20 game regular season with three playoff matches at most, these franchises will have had a hugely successful season if they can be in playoff contention in what is a very competitive league which has seen 4 different winners in the last 4 years.

So its not like it used be; every team plays every other team home and away?

IF so, how is it determined who plays who twice and who plays who only once?
 
So its not like it used be; every team plays every other team home and away?

IF so, how is it determined who plays who twice and who plays who only once?
2 seven team conferences where everyone plays each other twice, play teams in the other conference once apart from the teams from your country where you get two extra games so the Welsh play the other two welsh sides twice and same with the Irish while there'll be three SA, Scottish or Italian derbies. Adds up to a 21 team regular season, apologies for my weak maths in my previous post.

Not entirely fair but no conference system is and Id take it over 4 extra matches.
 
Its not always about the money. If it was, there would be no professional rugby players left in New Zealand, Australia or South Africa; they'd all be playing in France.

It would take a LOT of money to convince me to live in Europe or the UK... I'm talking several tens of millions.
Thank god for that
 
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Here is the official explanation of the format.



The Pro12 asked the SARU to make efforts to strengthen their sides, particularly the Kings who had largely been dismantled due to their impending extinction. So the Cheetahs have incorporated a lot of 7s specialists and the Kings have taken on a bunch of players from other sides. There is potential for the sides to gel and improve significantly. But yes, there is also potential for the teams to tire since they have been playing since March/April.

The above are all issues that can be managed a lot better come the start of the second season.
 
There are some notable absences in this story

1. There are no names of any Lions or Sharks or SARU management mentioned

2. There are no quotes from anyone or interviews with anyone

3. There is no mention of this on ANY of the usual South African sports media (SuperSport & Sport24)

SuperSport Rugby page https://www.supersport.com/rugby

Sport24 rugby page http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby

No mention in either, in fact this article says that SARU are committed to SANZAAR

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/south-africa-committed-to-sanzaar-roux-20170901

The Times article all sounds like some NH journalist interviewing his own keyboard on a slow news day..

I think this is a fake news article. There has been no mention whatsoever on any reliable site in South Africa about this happening. Not even on the Sharks or Lions homepages.

I really wish that posters would look at more reliable sources for specific countries before just starting a thread and click-baiting everyone.
 
Be pretty bloody IRRITATED if this were true...

These CHAPS/SORTS/PEOPLE were the reason we carved out the Force and potentially alienated WA from Union for good...
 
I think this is a fake news article. There has been no mention whatsoever on any reliable site in South Africa about this happening. Not even on the Sharks or Lions homepages.

I really wish that posters would look at more reliable sources for specific countries before just starting a thread and click-baiting everyone.

I also think it's fake news. But at the very least its worth the discussion on this thread to atleast determine to everyone in doubt that it's fake.
Yes you always look for official sources in news articles to verify the facts but the nature of sport strories are more speculative than news stories.
 
Be pretty bloody IRRITATED if this were true...

These CHAPS/SORTS/PEOPLE were the reason we carved out the Force and potentially alienated WA from Union for good...

Who? What was the reason?
 
Who? What was the reason?
I was of the belief that the call to shrink the number of teams and limit the number of Australian teams within Super Rugby to 4 was coming from the part of SANZAR on the other side of the Indian Ocean.

Could well just be making an arse of myself if that's not the case, but that's what I'd been led to believe.
 
I was of the belief that the call to shrink the number of teams and limit the number of Australian teams within Super Rugby to 4 was coming from the part of SANZAR on the other side of the Indian Ocean.

Could well just be making an arse of myself if that's not the case, but that's what I'd been led to believe.

Dude, seriously read the articles and the posts before you do make an arse of yourself as you've just did...
 
Dude, seriously read the articles and the posts before you do make an arse of yourself as you've just did...
Any chance you could link me to anything about the initial SANZAR call to prune the number of teams. I've been looking around old threads for more info that disproves the claim, but I'm fairly new and haven't found anything yet.
 
Any chance you could link me to anything about the initial SANZAR call to prune the number of teams. I've been looking around old threads for more info that disproves the claim, but I'm fairly new and haven't found anything yet.

Here's a thread all about the cutting of 3 teams:
https://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/sanzaar-to-cut-3-teams-in-2018.38929/

Here's articles about the culling (and how Australia stuffed up):
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...alian-teams-to-face-the-chop-from-Super-Rugby
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/aru-defends-super-rugby-cull-handling-20170518
https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2017/0409/866434-super-rugby/
http://ewn.co.za/2017/03/15/australia-fumes-as-sanzaar-dithers-over-super-rugby-future
 
It does seem very strange in retrospect. The impression I got was that the main motivating factor, other than how unpopular the split South African conference format was, was how much money the Rebels and Kings were bleeding.

Well so much for reducing costs. The Rebels are still there bleeding money, and the Kings only have an even longer season and even more travel.
 

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