[June Tests 2018: 3rd Test] New Zealand vs. France (23/06/2018)

[Immenso]

Interesting to compare the movements of the halfbacks in these 2 similar situations in the match. Although the top gif is second half and Lacey may be more conscious where he's standing.

 

[FrenchFan]

https://m.imgur.com/nihFtzE.gif

https://imgur.com/ZnsgFbo.gif

yes we've seen the replay here as well. Nothing to write home about. Accidental. No bearing on the outcome of the game.

The union charade took off where they left in the 6 Nations. They were poor in every facet of the game. They can't string 3 passes together. The line-out was a shambles etc. In 3rd test they managed to keep 15 players on - Yet they were comprehensively outclassed.

NZ were without Barrett and a few 1st starters. McKenzie plays fullback yet he gave a masterclass playing out of position as a 10 with a flawless display. Three tries came out from simple moves straight out of training.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

but very few here think we were hard done by.
Every time the union charade have lost a game in this series they have been victimised by the medias who blame the ref on their behalf. None of these excuses paper over the union's own crassness though. They were comprehensively outclassed in every facet of the game.

The union goose is cooked anyway.

The comment was isolated to that incident.

 

[FrenchFan]

The comment was isolated to that incident.

And you didn't know what French fans really think or feel. Now you do.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

And you didn't know what French fans really think or feel. Now you do.

I know that if it was a club game we'd be hearing of anti-French conspiracies... I know the player won't be happy with being impeded... I know that trying to blame the union for that one incident is petty...

 

[FrenchFan]

I know that if it was a club game we'd be hearing of anti-French conspiracies... I know the player won't be happy with being impeded... I know that trying to blame the union for that one incident is petty...

Didn't blame the union for the incident. And it's the medias outside of this country that are blathering their own conspiracy theories, which is hilarious.

Over here we're having too much fun taking the **** out of the union...

 

[Kiwiwomble]

His match observer. He would probably have ripped Lacy a new one.

Referees are answerable to their bosses when they make egregious Law errors, and overturning that try would have been one.

The reality is that the try was going to scored anyway, either by DMac or Aaron Smith. The gap between DMac and Serin was a lot bigger than it looks from the live angle. This is apparent in the end-on view not which was not shown in the broadcast but was shown at the half time break when the Sky TV analysis team were discussing it.



Serin was trying to cover both DMac and Smith (remember the old saying "The man who chases two rabbits, catches neither"?) Even if he could have got closer to Dmac before the pass was made, that would put him further from Smith, and no-one was covering him (the French OS flanker was still on the scrum) so he could simply have kept the ball and scored himself.

i admit we are past whether the right decision was made, it has been shown there is no rule etc, i concede.

BUT...the fact that, as in this vid, so many people feel the need to support the claim with he was beat so no effect to me shows they know it doesn't feel right...the vid is rubbish.

he says he was beat and there was a "gap as big as the Champs Elysees" outside Dmac

to me this looks like two defenders outside Dmac and at the time of pass (see DMac turning towards smith to receive the pass) there is only a couple of meters to cover to get DMac and Serin was already running into the ref.

No, i dont think it was guaranteed he would have got him but i think its just as likely as he wasn't going to get him. if the ref didn't need to get out of the way and there is no rule to bring him back lets just say that and be done rather than make rubbish by predicting the future to justify it in hindsight.

its embarressing

 

[Immenso]

i admit we are past whether the right decision was made, it has been shown there is no rule etc, i concede.

BUT...the fact that, as in this vid, so many people feel the need to support the claim with he was beat so no effect to me shows they know it doesn't feel right...the vid is rubbish.

he says he was beat and there was a "gap as big as the Champs Elysees" outside Dmac

View attachment 6188

to me this looks like two defenders outside Dmac and at the time of pass (see DMac turning towards smith to receive the pass) there is only a couple of meters to cover to get DMac and Serin was already running into the ref.

No, i dont think it was guaranteed he would have got him but i think its just as likely as he wasn't going to get him. if the ref didn't need to get out of the way and there is no rule to bring him back lets just say that and be done rather than make rubbish by predicting the future to justify it in hindsight.

its embarressing

If Serin moved in a legal way to plug the gap he wouldn't have touched Lacey.

Instead he moved sideways, instead of back and across.

Serin initiated the contact, and he initiated it before the ball was even out.

Serin's fault 1000%.

Optics look really, really real bad. I agree. But once people have had the time to look and think. To still bag Lacey? Pathetic.

Great try ruined. Yip.

It's moved from "that's unlucky but them the non-rules". To "actually, it's their own bloody fault".

But spare me any tears for France on that play. Thoughts and prayers to Lacey who has made the cardinal sin of refereeing an All Blacks match. The poor fella.

 

[smartcooky]

If Serin moved in a legal way to plug the gap he wouldn't have touched Lacey.

Instead he moved sideways, instead of back and across.

Serin initiated the contact, and he initiated it before the ball was even out.

Serin's fault 1000%.

Optics look really, really real bad. I agree. But once people have had the time to look and think. To still bag Lacey? Pathetic.

Great try ruined. Yip.

It's moved from "that's unlucky but them the non-rules". To "actually, it's their own bloody fault".

But spare me any tears for France on that play. Thoughts and prayers to Lacey who has made the cardinal sin of refereeing an All Blacks match. The poor fella.

And in any case, Serin was offside. The scrumhalf cannot move away more than 1m from the scrum while ahead of his offside line before the scrum has ended. He had moved well away from the scrum and started to push Lacy well before Smith took the ball out.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I'm out, I just feel we're quoting the rule book more and more to explain things that at first glance did not feel right. Yes these things are 100% correct but they just don't feel like the game I've always enjoyed

I don't enjoy controversy in rugby and feel rules should feel fair and yet it seems most people on here now think the win is more important than watching a good game of rugby

 

[OneBlackEye]

I'm out, I just feel we're quoting the rule book more and more to explain things that at first glance did not feel right. Yes these things are 100% correct but they just don't feel like the game I've always enjoyed

I don't enjoy controversy in rugby and feel rules should feel fair and yet it seems most people on here now think the win is more important than watching a good game of rugby

I like it when people quote the rule book when they are talking about the rules and wish they would do it more.

I do agree with your general sentiment though, but I think people are pointing out the actual laws to highlight how ridiculous they often are and I think that's more constructive than talking about what feels right.

Ultimately if we want want the laws to make more sense, make rugby more enjoyable to watch and less controversial then all the conversations and media focus after these tests should be about law changes and clarifications. But they aren't, they are about bias referees and other nonsense.

 

[OneBlackEye]

1. Death
2. Taxes
3. Questionable refereeing decisions in New Zealand

4. The Moaning English

 

[Immenso]

I'm out, I just feel we're quoting the rule book more and more to explain things that at first glance did not feel right. Yes these things are 100% correct but they just don't feel like the game I've always enjoyed

I don't enjoy controversy in rugby and feel rules should feel fair and yet it seems most people on here now think the win is more important than watching a good game of rugby

I actually think we're partly in some agreement. Some of the post below is a general rant rather than directed at your posts.

I'm sick of the controversey as well. I didn't enjoy that try one little bit. Yet it was a 100% perfectly executed set move by NZ to wheel the scrum, isolate the halfback from his blindside flanker and run that channel, yet it was optically spoilt and felt a bit hollow.

But this wasn't caused by Lacey's own bad positioning. It was caused by Serin trying to crab out too far before the scrum was even complete and then move sideways (inside the 5m) rather than retreat onside back the 5m.

Yet Lacey is getting all the blame.

I agree about your comment that "the rules should feel fair", and in the future something like this might happen where the player isn't to blame and the referee is to blame. If that was the case I wouldn't be happy with the "he wouldn't have got there anyway" argument. Under current rules there doesn't appear to be anyway to redress this. IMO that is a valid discussion.

But IMO the unlucky France / inept Lacey narrative is a false narrative. Lacey is the unlucky one, he's being made out to be the clumsy inept fool.

I understand the urge, it was my initial reaction too, it's such a rare occurrence almost no one knew the rules. But;
1. I now know the rules
2. I believe the fault was with Serin

Yet if you do a google search of John Lacey referee;

Rugby: Referee blunder hurts France once again
New Zealand Herald · 2 days ago

Referee John Lacey slammed on Twitter after another controversial ...

Referee John Lacey heavily criticised after awarding New Zealand ...
https://www.walesonline.co.uk › Sport › Rugby › New Zealand rugby

'I could have tackled' - French furious at refereeing howler
RugbyPass-23/06/2018

French perplexed why referee didn't cancel McKenzie try

Watch: Referee Blocks French Tackler, Awards New Zealand Try ...
https://www.balls.ie/rugby/john-lacey-391463

Lacey the latest under fire as All Blacks scorch in for 7 tries against ...
www.the42.ie/lacey-referee-all-blacks-france-4087598-Jun2018/


I've gone several pages in and yet to see one that says" Actually, Lacey was both right and even if he was wrong he was powerless"

 

[Kiwiwomble]

just clarifying I realise within the rules he did nothing wrong and was 100% correct...just wish he wasn't there so dmac could beat serin cleanly or serin could make the tackle on at or the other

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....players-bbc-team-summer-internationals-165981

I'm sure the French will be happy to see that one of their players, Semi Radradra, made the BBC's best Summer XV. Very poor from the BBC.

 

[FrenchFan]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....players-bbc-team-summer-internationals-165981

I'm sure the French will be happy to see that one of their players, Semi Radradra, made the BBC's best Summer XV. Very poor from the BBC.

Hilarious Think the BBC was taking the mick considering how well the union did...

I have no idea what the union gets out of the series. There is nothing to salvage for Brunel.

The union are stuck in their own time warp. Somehow They think they have the 'team' to take on NZ in their own backyard when they haven't mounted a competitive challenge to the Six Nations in the last 8 yrs.
Their selection policy is non existent. It's just a hit and miss affair every season regardless of who is national selector. They rounded up the players that hadn't gone on holiday. In reality it's the clubs that are doing all the players management.
Brunel went to the 6N with one group and took another one to NZ with very little to show other than 3 drubbings. No continuity from November to June.

 

[RedruthRFC]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....players-bbc-team-summer-internationals-165981

I'm sure the French will be happy to see that one of their players, Semi Radradra, made the BBC's best Summer XV. Very poor from the BBC.

Have you listened to the podcast in question? It strikes me that this is more likely to be Sports Joe's mistake. If it is the BBC, then it's close to unforgivable that one didn't notice the other's mistake and correct them.