[June Tests 2018: 1st Test] South Africa vs. England (09/06/2018)

[ratsapprentice]

Anecdotally I think long term exposure to

Anything under three days is a killer, according to the papers I skimmed over earlier. Two to three weeks is the ideal amount, but anything under three saw a 50% reduction in aerobic performance.

So there's no point going up there as there's not enough time to acclimate.

Stay at sea level so they can train fully - rather than be compromised.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So there's no point going up there as there's not enough time to acclimate.

Stay at sea level so they can train fully - rather than be compromised.

But we arrived yesterday? day before?
5 days in altitude > 18hrs

 

[ratsapprentice]

But we arrived yesterday? day before?
5 days in altitude > 18hrs

5 days good training > 5 days bad training + marginal adaptation.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I'm with Rats on with one. Also Eddie was a SA coach remember, he does know his **** when it comes to it. If we were in good form coming into this then I would probably be ok with a couple of worse training sessions, but there is a lot of key issues that need work ie. Defensive structure and rucking that does need to get prioritized over acclimatization at this point.

We are failing to do the basics and need to deal with that problem first.

 

[TRF_heineken]

That's interesting, how long to the benefits of altitude training last? My impression was that it was a short term thing, so any benefits gained would be gone after a few home games and a tour or Australia / New Zealand. I guess being used to the effects would be useful in terms of dealing with for the ball moves through the air, but I don't see how it would help with the inevitable fatigues versus a team partly made up of players whose bodies are used to breathing air with less oxygen in it.

Edit: I know little about the sports science on this other than what I've learned today, so stand to be corrected on any / all points.

I'm also not very familiar with sport sciences and the effects on the human body. But I remember watching a session of the Tour de France one year where there was mountain session, and the one commentator mentioned that cyclists who lived at sea level their whole lives, and then go for altitude training struggle a lot more to cope with the conditions that others. He said something in the line of people who are living at altitude conditions or go there for certain periods of time gets a genetical advantage over the coastal people. I'm not sure how accurate this is, so it would be nice if someone could show us if this is indeed accurate.

As for the Saffa coastal guys, I'm very sure all of them have been at altitude conditions for extended periods. if we look at geographics, then a place like Pietermaritzburg, that has a lot of good rugby schools, is already 600m above sea level, and it's just 70km's away from durban. And the city is very close to the Drakensberg mountains where the altitude goes up to above 2000m. Same can be said about the cape, where you don't have to drive hours on end to get to higher altitudes.

 

[Gena_ZA]

good video on the rivalry between two proud nations

https://www.supersport.com/rugby/video/977034

 

[unrated]

The hype is building towards saturday. As previously mentioned South Africa has not been doing okay of late, both sporting, economically and socially between the races. We need to win this series to give South Africans something to cheer about again.

There is a lot of hope resting on what Erasmus can achieve with the Springboks and i truly feel that we are on the cusp of a huge turnaround in our rugby fortunes. With that said it would be foolish to suggest that we will simply beat England in this series based on our good historical record, they were the form team last year and we had the worst year in our history.

The bright side is that England has not been performing this year, some people are blaming it on the large numbers of English players who played in the British and Irish Lions tour whilst others have blamed it on EJ's hardcore training sessions.
The English coaches claim they know what to expect from South Africa but they are flat out lying because us South Africans don't even know what to expect, its a new era and we need to see what Rassie has in store. To illustrate how little we know about how the Springboks are going to play, here is a quote from Erasmus after the Wales game: he said all the box kicks was frustrating and that ""If you want to play (like that) the whole year it will be very frustrating, not just for you guys but for all of us,"
So what we saw against Wales is not the plan against England if we can read into that.



Here is my combined SA/ England XV players from when England won the world championships in 2003 and South Africa in 2007 dominates this list and deservedly so since they actually won world cups.

I feel that players in the professional era are much better rugby players than the ones that came before them, not necessarily in terms of raw talent but in preparation, conditioning and sport science terms. Those factors will make modern players dominate all time best lists if people are really honest with themselves.

15.Montgomery

14. Jason Robinson

13. Will Greenwood

12. Jean de Villiers/ Francois Steyn

11. Habana

10. Wilkinson

9. Fourie du Preez

8. Lawrence Dallaglio

7. Francois Pienaar (WC winning captain, otherwise would not have been here)

6. Schalk Burger

5. Victor Matfield

4. Martin Johnson (World cup winning captains should always be included)

3.Phill Vickery

2.John Smit (WC winning captain)

1. Os du Randt

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

Does anybody think there is a chance we see Farrell stay at 10 with a new 12/13?

I know the safe bet is to put Ford at 10 with Farrell at 12, but it just seems a shame to have our best back and now captain playing in his less-favored position where is ability to influence the game is diminished. I think a midfield axis of;

10. Faz
12. Loz
13. Slade

provides as much in attack/distribution/kicking and is far more robust in defense. It's not that I hate Ford, it's just I don't see what he offers that others don't, so why put up with his defensive frailties?

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Does anybody think there is a chance we see Farrell stay at 10 with a new 12/13?

I know the safe bet is to put Ford at 10 with Farrell at 12, but it just seems a shame to have our best back and now captain playing in his less-favored position where is ability to influence the game is diminished. I think a midfield axis of;

10. Faz
12. Loz
13. Slade

provides as much in attack/distribution/kicking and is far more robust in defense. It's not that I hate Ford, it's just I don't see what he offers that others don't, so why put up with his defensive frailties?

Too many playmaking options there and not a huge amount of players to use them if you know what I mean? You need someone who is an attacker rather than a playmaker in there (an argument can be made that Lozowski does that but I don't agree) so I think you would see two of those three alongside a Nowell, Joseph, Daly, Te'o, Tuilagi, Marchant etc...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If teo were fit then i wouldn't have been surprised to see Farrell/Teo/Loz or Francis or Slade

However I think he'll still with Ford n Farrell at 10/12, and keep hoping that teo or manu will be fit for the world cup

 

[Scotty]

I think we need daly at 13, its his favoured position amd gives us a real attacking edge. Solomona may and brown/woodward as back 3. Id like to see daly at FBtbh but under the cercumstances we need an attacking 13.

Id like to see

Youngs
Faz
May
Loz
Daly
Solomona
Woodward

Robson
Ford
Brown/nowell.

Thoughts?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I agree that 13 is Daly's best position, but I kinda want him to go to 15 - or at least be given a real shot there.
Brown has never been the most athletic and time/age is diminishing what little he had. Watson looked poor at 15 for England when given a chance, and is injured anyway. We need another option there.

 

[Scotty]

Wo

I agree that 13 is Daly's best position, but I kinda want him to go to 15 - or at least be given a real shot there.
Brown has never been the most athletic and time/age is diminishing what little he had. Watson looked poor at 15 for England when given a chance, and is injured anyway. We need another option there.

Woodward also needs a shot IMO, no watson then as it stands we have brown and daly, we need a 3rd choice and hes an actual FB.

Then if your set on daly 15, would you got

9 youngs
10 ford
11 may
12 faz
13 loz
14 solo
15 daly

21 robson
22 nowell
23 woodward/brown

Basically same team as i said but moved around, moving daly to 13 in second half. Bringing 23 on for ford. Giving ford loz daly.?? Still not unhappy with that tbh but i think give him last 20/30 at FB personally.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Nowell isn't touring.

Woodward is unlikely to play, I'd imagine, given he wasn't in the barbarians 23.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Forgot Woodward was touring!
Also agree with Rats in that he is unlikely to feature. Eddie likes who he likes and he begrudgingly included Woodward after losing two of his back 3 - can't see him giving him much of a chance tbh

 

[Scotty]

Yeh i guess your right but id like to see woodward, fair one forgot nowell wasbt there.

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

hmmm, predicted EJ 23 then? I'd expect to see:

1. Mako
2. George
3. Williams
4. Itoje
5. Isiekwe (Launch if not injured)
6. Robshaw
7. Curry
8. Vunipola

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. Daly
12. Farrell
13. Slade
14. May
15. Brown

16. LCD
17. Marler
18. Sinckler
19. Hill (Isiekwe)
20. Shields
21. Robson
22. Cipriani
23. Solomana

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's what I reckon, too, though with Sinckler and Williams switched around. Possibly Genge over Marler as well (though Marler is one of EJs boys)

I also wouldn't be surprised to see some weird bench makeup, like Piers Francis and Cipriani at 22 and 23.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Agree with Olyy....

Find the media trying to push the "Eddie is training them too hard" agenda very transparent this week.

 

[saulan]

Based on Sports24's report, it looks like not one US Wales game Springbok will be in the starting 15 this weekend. According to what's happening on the training pitch, this is the expected line-up:
15 Willie le Roux (41)
14 S'bu Nkosi (0)
13 Lukhanyo Am (1)
12 Damian de Allende (28)
11 Aphiwe Dyantyi (0)
10 Handré Pollard (26)
9 Faf de Klerk (11)
8 Duane Vermeulen (39)
7 Jean-Luc du Preez (10)
6 Siya Kolisi (captain, 28)
5 Franco Mostert (18)
4 RG Snyman (0)
3 Trevor Nyakane (37)
2 Bongi Mbonambi (14)
1 Beast Mtawarira (98)