• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

[June Tests 2018: 1st Test] South Africa vs. England (09/06/2018)

I mean, I'm not saying I agree with it.

But swapping Shields for Isiekwe is fairly objectively increasing the speed of the pack.
True. But other than Curry I reckon Isiekwe was the fastest member of that starting pack. If what EJ is saying is true then surely take off Robshaw or Binny plus then Shields would actually be in position. Eddie's lack of honesty does frustrate me.
 
I think the selecting of Burrell in that match was done because he was under HUGE pressure to start Farrell at 10. Still is but I think hen as bigger courage that he understands Youngs/Ford/Farrell is our best combination and armchair pundits need to pushing for the anoited one to start at 10 to the deriment of our lack of options at 12.

This said I didn't understand pulling off Iskewie but I think Gustard is in big trouble our defence was shocking today.

Who's actually pushing for cipriani to start?
 
I think the selecting of Burrell in that match was done because he was under HUGE pressure to start Farrell at 10. Still is but I think hen as bigger courage that he understands Youngs/Ford/Farrell is our best combination and armchair pundits need to pushing for the anoited one to start at 10 to the deriment of our lack of options at 12.

This said I didn't understand pulling off Iskewie but I think Gustard is in big trouble our defence was shocking today.

Who's actually pushing for cipriani to start?
 
True. But other than Curry I reckon Isiekwe was the fastest member of that starting pack. If what EJ is saying is true then surely take off Robshaw or Binny plus then Shields would actually be in position. Eddie's lack of honesty does frustrate me.

I don't think it's dishonest. I mean he could be lying, but there's no real evidence to support that.

He's obviously not going to bin Robshaw or Billy, taking Curry off isn't really in-line with increase pace, and he's hardly going to take off Itoje, is he?
 
He said it was purely a pace thing. Notable that he didn't say anything about Nick, literally just said the game was quick, so he wanted more speed.
Cheers. The way it was going we didn't need more pace, we really needed a couple of people with the nous to calm things down and play the percentages for a while and regroup. Dean Richards, ideally.

Instead we got our smallest second row pairing since the 1950s. Think Eddie might have been back in Japan mode.
 
wow well done SA nice. a joy to see the old crushing SA pack. vermueleen is a beast. the clerk outstanding.
it's now 3 in a row in NH vs sh I hope we can make it 4!
 
wow well done SA nice. a joy to see the old crushing SA pack. vermueleen is a beast. the clerk outstanding.
it's now 3 in a row in NH vs sh I hope we can make it 4!

With the pack that has been selected for Wales, I have a feeling that you could be on to something...
 
I thought the Boks were very impressive once they got going. I would suggest that the only players I would bring in are Marx for Mbonambi, Etzebeth for Mostert and possibly Esterhuizen and Kriel for DDA and AM
 
Ignoring that the Bokke were better, man for man, and that England have now lost 6(?) games on the trot, it was obviously the ref that blew it for the roses. O.0

Faf De Klerk simply outplayed his opposite, marshaling his team to attack over and over and over, without respite, and England didn't have an answer except to let penalty magnet Itojie loose with abandon.

May and Brown exposed SAs scrambling defence, but the reality was that after 20 minutes England hit a wall and didn't know what to do.

That isn't to say they gave up or didn't try as hard as they could, but they just weren't good enough to unpick the Saffers.

You would think that after a half-dozen times of up-and-unders handing the control back to the Bokke, they would have tried something else, but no. Plan B was like Plan A, but faster...

Willy Le Roux, Faf De Klerk deserved dual man of the match awards. Le Roux never shut up, directing play all over the park, pushing his teammates.

And don't underestimate the impetus of having the first black captain in their history and his effect in pushing the team.

Who was the English captain? I saw a lot of faces being pulled and frustration and whining to the ref, us not a lot of leadership.

And Robshaw is done. Just doesn't have what it takes. Brown is awful on defence, as is Ford. Great going forward, clueless on the back foot. Big polynesians are useful if you have the speed and ball handling and lines to use them, but Jones seems to think they are best used as a sledgehammer.

The sheer amount of passes put in by SA was notable, even if they were a little ragged, at least they were throwing it about - it left the England centre pairing flummoxed, running hither and non.

A really enjoyable game, from the view of a disinterested third party that really would support any team playing either of them :)
 
Ignoring that the Bokke were better, man for man, and that England have now lost 6(?) games on the trot, it was obviously the ref that blew it for the roses. O.0

Faf De Klerk simply outplayed his opposite, marshaling his team to attack over and over and over, without respite, and England didn't have an answer except to let penalty magnet Itojie loose with abandon.

May and Brown exposed SAs scrambling defence, but the reality was that after 20 minutes England hit a wall and didn't know what to do.

That isn't to say they gave up or didn't try as hard as they could, but they just weren't good enough to unpick the Saffers.

You would think that after a half-dozen times of up-and-unders handing the control back to the Bokke, they would have tried something else, but no. Plan B was like Plan A, but faster...

Willy Le Roux, Faf De Klerk deserved dual man of the match awards. Le Roux never shut up, directing play all over the park, pushing his teammates.

And don't underestimate the impetus of having the first black captain in their history and his effect in pushing the team.

Who was the English captain? I saw a lot of faces being pulled and frustration and whining to the ref, us not a lot of leadership.

And Robshaw is done. Just doesn't have what it takes. Brown is awful on defence, as is Ford. Great going forward, clueless on the back foot. Big polynesians are useful if you have the speed and ball handling and lines to use them, but Jones seems to think they are best used as a sledgehammer.

The sheer amount of passes put in by SA was notable, even if they were a little ragged, at least they were throwing it about - it left the England centre pairing flummoxed, running hither and non.

A really enjoyable game, from the view of a disinterested third party that really would support any team playing either of them :)

Mate not one person has actually said this was the case. We're allowed to say we got outplayed and SA deserved to win but the ref made a number of errors.
 
This had to be the match of the weekend. I thought England were going to win by 60 after the first 15 mins when they went up 24-3 - how they managed to lose and concede the next 5 tries before a late flurry to make the score close will be very troubling to Eddie "Traitor" Jones. Only thing that marred it was that weird yellow card to Vunipola, but given in union they send you off for tickling above the shoulders now, it wasn't that surprising. But on that count that penalty magnet Etoji bloke was lucky to stay on the field with his numerous swinging arm high tackles
 
19 tackles, one missed
Highest in either side, next highest is George with 13
23m off of 3 carries, as well, which is impressive. Only Binny made more metres as a forward, and he made more ground than Slade, Ford and Youngs.
I thought Curry did really pretty well. Worth persevering with.

We do need much more natural aggression and hard hitting though - the kind of attitude that Genge Underhill and Manu all naturally have. Thought Sinckler had it too but his form's disappeared down a plug hole. We're just too passive.

Fitness permitting I'd like to see Launch paired with Isiekwe. Never fully onboard the Itoje hype train anyway and his penalty count is consistently ridiculous. Some bench time for him.

May had the odd typical cross field excursion, but had some other very nice touches and took his try well.

Where to play Daly? Coming to the conclusion that wing might be best after all. Woodward's a specialist full back with a good attacking game. Let's see him given a chance.
 
When you put it all in perspective it wasn't horrific for England, concerning how many points they leaked, but there were some good points to, if you factor in the altitude, couple of things like Daly missing the ball and the ref being inconsistent at the breakdown in it could have been worse.

The Ford Faz axis works well on the front foot but when we are not, really require a plan b, maybe Faz at 10 and a big hitter like Barret would offer a little more resilience in defence.

Itoje needs dropping he is just conceding too many pens.

If we are going to continue accepting we will concede too many try's and rely on outscoring opposition rather than nullifying their attacks cips is defiantly worth a shot.

Not that wings are an issue but I would like to see wade get a shot anyone who watches Wasps will know he no longer has the defensive vulnerability he had in the past and can literally strike from anywhere at any time, closest thing England have to a Jason Robinson currently.

Only comment on Robshaw is he simply isn't up to the job.
 
Where to play Daly? Coming to the conclusion that wing might be best after all. Woodward's a specialist full back with a good attacking game. Let's see him given a chance.

For me Daly is fine at 15 bad day at the office, not familiar with the position but give him a little time, that miss on the line in all honesty could have happened to anyone, just one of those horrific could of seconds, a few over hit kicks Probably altitude playing a part outside of that I didn't think he looked out of place.
 
Some great attacking play, some awful defence. After going 24-3 up we should of played tight, and built up phases. Instead we kick away.

We lack aggression still, and we box kick WAY too much.

Robshaw was again pedestrian, would like to see Simmonds & Curry as 6/7 next weekend.

But if Daly hadn't missed that ball, if Itoje didn't gamble for the FDK try we could've stemmed the SA attacking pressure.

I love May, his try was ridiculous...
 
Great game to attend, will post pics and stuff later, need to attend to hands and knees, took a fall outside after the game, non alcohol related
 
If we go 2-0 down, I would like to see a bit of a an experimental back line in the final game.

10 Farrell
11 May
12 Lozowski / Slade
13 Daly
14 Earle (Watson when fit)
15 Woodward

22 Ford
23 Brown
 
OK, I've had time to think and gain some perspective. It was bad - at times horrendous - but there were a few positives. Ford/Faz looked OK going forward and with Daly coming into the line it gave us some options. Ditto, that's one of May's better games in a white shirt.

I'm not going to linger on the negatives; I'll be here all day. I'd like to see some changes for next week. The front row weren't up for it, so change them all. Marler, LC-D & Williams to start (or Genge). Itoje has to come out; Launchbury in for him. Robshaw out; back row of Shields, Simmonds & Curry.

I'm undecided about Tom Youngs and the centre combination - perhaps bring Loz in for Slade. Daly to remain at 15. Solomona onto wing for Brown.
 
Top