June International Test: New Zealand vs. Wales [2nd Test] (18/06/2016)

[Shaggy]

Wouldn't mind Lowe getting a run, but I think Shag likes the idea of putting Ben back at wing, since we have a lot of depth now at fullback we can probably afford to run this. Dagg and Mckenzie in the frame and even Barrett. Squeezing Lowe in seems to not be that much of a priority, given NMS injury and he still didn't get selected.

I wasn't suggesting that Lowe would get a run in this test or even the series, just that he could have the chance to lift his playing stocks as the number two left winger, given the loss of the other options, and a chance to show a bit more versatility. As it turns out he did pretty well, and could maybe now be seen as an option to take Daggs spot, as they both have the big boot, and Lowe could cover full back (we have plenty of options there anyway) if necessay.

Would Savea have gotten into the 7s squad? Seriously doubt he has the fitness, pace or footwork to compete there. In 1 on 1 situations he would be slaughtered by the pace and stepping ability of 7s players. And although I don't know a lot about 7s, I doubt the NZ 7s would've taken more than 1 big winger. And at the moment that role is being very well filled by Lam.

I'm not going to jump on Savea and say that he's complacent or hasn't been working hard enough, as really we have no idea, none of us have ever trained with him, so I think it's un fair to accuse him of that. That said, focusing more on his mobility instead of his power would do him a world of good.

He is the undoubtedly the best winger that's graced this side of 2010, so hopefully he can pick up his game again. Would be disastrous to see a player like him burn out at 25.

I'm pretty sure he would have been given a go during the season, if he'd committed to sevens, and it wouldn't have been the first time Gordon Tietjens has been sent AB wingers with form and or fitness issues to iron out I agree with Nick that you don't just TOTALLY discard someone with Savea's experience and try scoring ability from the ABs, but dropping him from a game or two probably will reignite whatever needs reigniting, and he'll come back in good form.

 

[nightmarehitter]

Good points though im not sure you watched last years ITM Cup as you may be surprised to know that at 19 years of age Akira Ioane is the first player in the history of provincial rugby in New Zealand to have the most line breaks in a season from playing in the forwards. He was in ultra beast mode. In last years ITM cup he simply destroyed the opposition forward packs and had an incredible stat of only being tackled by the first tackle attempt in only 1 in 10 runs ball in hand. If you were unlucky enough to be a back aiming up to him it was basically mission impossible.

He is is only 20 years of age and I suspect will need a couple of seasons of super rugby under his belt to be ready for the ABs. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see his almost just as incredible younger brother Reiko make the All Blacks before him on the wing.

Also remember Akira's focus this year has been on olympics/sevens, he has dropped weight off his frame to transition and his focus has not been on super rugby, though he has played a few games due to being a must pick. He will return a hell of a player with even more new found skills and a drilled work ethic. Spending all those months training next to SBW will have a massive impact on Ioane.

Check out the fend off on Nonu!

 

[nickdnz]

On the subject of Ioane, again I'm probably in a boat on my own here, but I don't rate him that much in 15s yet. Sure, when given open space he can do serious damage, which is great if you're a 13/wing, but he's a 6/8. His carrying in the tight is far from impressive and as a grafter in defence and at the break down he's really nothing special. He excels at 7s, but has not yet really converted that to 15s (I know he's gotten a couple of superb tries, but what else?). Not saying he won't be a great, but in my eyes he has a long way to go before being considered as an international back rower. He's got to become more than a wide channel ball-carrier, and I'm sure he can as if he did he could be the best 8 in the world.

Actually, I question how much of Akira Ioane you have watched.

For a start while his running game is impressive, his work in the tight is what first attracted me to him. His defense and work-rate is extremely good. This Super Rugby season is hard to go by (although he is still averaging the same number of tackles per 80 minutes as guys like Vito etc). Last Super Rugby season he averaged 11 tackles per game tacking at 97%. Last ITM Cup he averaged 8 tackles per game, but tackled at 98 per cent (so made 78 and missed only 1). He was undeniably the best player in last years U20s. His carrying in the tight is actually extremely impressive, many of his breaks come from tight carries. So I just can't really work out what you're basing it on at all, other than guessing because he is exceptional in 7s, he isn't good in the tight.

Would Savea have gotten into the 7s squad? Seriously doubt he has the fitness, pace or footwork to compete there. In 1 on 1 situations he would be slaughtered by the pace and stepping ability of 7s players. And although I don't know a lot about 7s, I doubt the NZ 7s would've taken more than 1 big winger. And at the moment that role is being very well filled by Lam.

I'd bet my house he is a much faster player than Lam. I would say Savea is still one of the quickest wingers in New Zealand right now, and it's no surprise ***jens wanted him in the 7s squad. He's certainly not slow, despite what some would have you believe based on him looking a bit overweight at the start of the season..

 

[austingtir]

Akira has been playing 6 mostly but its obvious to me his future lies at 8 once he matures a bit 6 is to tight for him at int level.... He's got everything required of that position and then some. He could play any of the three loose positions for NZ no trouble at all imo. Over the coming years guys like hooper and pocock wont be as effective under the new rules. I think teams will change to backrows stacked with monster explosive guys like Ardie, Shields/Dixon and akira.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Good to see Charteris back as you can't miss him in the line out which fell apart for Wales in the 2nd Half. Also finally Patchell has got his chance and hopefully he can prove that he is good enough for this level but it's a shame Williams has to go to the wing after his performance last week

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I'm glad savea is dropped, I really want to see him go away lean up and focus on getting his speed back.

on the flip side I really wish they wouldn't move Ben Smith around like that, Dagg has played wing for the AB's before and he did well, having to move Naholo as well a guy working hard to find his feet and find consistency at test level? Stupid IMO.

The only reason I can think of behind it is if they are considering moving Naholo to the left wing on a more permanent basis to accommodate Skudder on the right wing when he returns from injury. Even then I would still leave Smith at 15.

Also a bit gutted we have to wait another week to see McKenzie, it will really suck if the final test comes and he and dixon still dont get a shot...

i dont get it either, i would just like them to come out and explain their thinking, daggs trying to earn a spot in the AB's back and hansen is willing to re gig the back line to fit him in rather than saying "fit in with whats working"

 

[nickdnz]

i dont get it either, i would just like them to come out and explain their thinking, daggs trying to earn a spot in the AB's back and hansen is willing to re gig the back line to fit him in rather than saying "fit in with whats working"

Well to be fair it's not hard reasoning to follow. Dagg hasn't played wing in years. Ben Smith has performed well in the past on the wing - even if it limits his impact. There is no specialist winger other than Naholo abd Savea in the squad. So the reasoning is obviously that moving Smith to the wing is the most suitable option - as otherwise your asking two fullbacks who have virtually played no time there in the last four years - to play there in an international.

The better question is why were three fullbacks picked to begin with when you have additional cover in Barrett anyway? The answer is obviously because the coaches love Dagg and couldn't justify not taking McKenzie on current form.

Personally I don't see how Dagg forced his way in - even after returning to reasonable form for an AB fullback.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Dagg at fullback?
He had a pretty big drop off in form that lasted a long time, perhaps he will come back better and stronger, or perhaps they are getting him his 50th cap and letting him go?

Savea? Always looks a bit disinterested but he can turn it on when he wants to..

Akira Ioane? Haven't seen much of him but a lot of people back home are raving about this kid.
He must be a bit special.

 

[Ka_Mate]

Dagg at fullback?
He had a pretty big drop off in form that lasted a long time, perhaps he will come back better and stronger, or perhaps they are getting him his 50th cap and letting him go?

Savea? Always looks a bit disinterested but he can turn it on when he wants to..

Akira Ioane? Haven't seen much of him but a lot of people back home are raving about this kid.
He must be a bit special.

Dagg has been decent since his return and Shag doesn't give up on injured players. It really isn't that much of a surprise since NMS is injured.

 

[Ka_Mate]

I will also add Dagg would have made the RWC squad had NMS not been in the form of his life as well.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I will also add Dagg would have made the RWC squad had NMS not been in the form of his life as well.

I reckon they would've opted for Piutau over Dagg.

 

[Ka_Mate]

I reckon they would've opted for Piutau over Dagg.

Nope, once Piutau made his choice to go overseas, it was adios, he was never getting picked

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Nope, once Piutau made his choice to go overseas, it was adios, he was never getting picked

I thought Vito had already signed his Ulster contract by then too? And he still got in, despite the talent they already had at back row (If he hadn't then just ignore this)

 

[Ka_Mate]

I thought Vito had already signed his Ulster contract by then too? And he still got in, despite the talent they already had at back row (If he hadn't then just ignore this)

Piutau was seen as a long term prospect and had become an integral part of the team. Vito although extremely useful was always fringe/utility and we had depth coming through in the back row. Piutau's timing was poor to sign the contract like that, given his age and future and he wasn't smart considering NMS and Naholo were in razor sharp form.

Shag and Foster felt they could flick him and make a good example of him without losing anything.

 

[Peat]

I thought Vito had already signed his Ulster contract by then too? And he still got in, despite the talent they already had at back row (If he hadn't then just ignore this)

Don't think Vito ever signed a contract.

 

[Ka_Mate]

If I was Piutau I would have waited for AFTER the RWC, he probably would have been selected, jumped the gun a little and didn't think of the consequences of backed his ability that much he thought he was a shoe in.

He probably would've had a fine tournament and raised his stock at the same time. I would have not selected Naholo given his injury situation at the time. This to me was a dead set give away that Piutau was in Shags bad books.

 

[Tony Manx]

Can I remind all Welsh supporters to set their TV automatic standby mode to commence in 60 minutes.....sorry guys but cannot see any reason why this week will be better than last!

They give the singers more air time on TV than the NH do!!

 

[Bluemoon]

Happy for Patchell, if he's on his game it gives Wales a big clearing boot from fullback. He's better playing a running attack game than a kick chase game so I am wondering if Wales will continue with the change of tactic. He's been a very raw talent for Cardiff this year, sometimes making some poor decisions. He'll need to get them all right today!

Can only see the fatigue being worse this game, as everyone is saying, but mainly due to the midweek game. Wales need to convert more in the first 3 quarters to have any chance at all here.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Breakdown battle has been great so far

 

[Tony Manx]

Very good start for the Welsh and worth a lead.

Love the way Biggar makes a mark when given a penalty about a yard in front and then uses that more or less as the start of his run up before kicking!!