June International Test: New Zealand vs. Wales [2nd Test] (18/06/2016)

[Ka_Mate]

Barrett will continue to keep McKenzie on the bench in the big games in all honesty, I'm struggling to see when Damien will actually get some game time. No doubt if we win the 2nd test Shag might feel obliged to give some benchers a game in the 3rd.

 

[Larksea]

I expect to see some changes for the AB's in this test.

I think its unlikely many players will play all 3 games. That will **** off the super rugby coaches. The new guys will have had another week with the squad and more of them will be ready for a game in the last two tests. I expect to see more rotation in this series than during TRC or EYO tour.

What I would really like to see is Elliot Dixon get a start, and McKenzie get on the park somehow as well. Imagine the damage he could do to Wales in the last 20 with 23 on his back? he can have a sprint contest with Barrett

 

[austingtir]

I expect to see some changes for the AB's in this test.

I think its unlikely many players will play all 3 games. That will **** off the super rugby coaches. The new guys will have had another week with the squad and more of them will be ready for a game in the last two tests. I expect to see more rotation in this series than during TRC or EYO tour.

What I would really like to see is Elliot Dixon get a start, and McKenzie get on the park somehow as well. Imagine the damage he could do to Wales in the last 20 with 23 on his back? he can have a sprint contest with Barrett

Barrett would smoke him.... hell Barrett would just about smoke anyone I suspect.

 

[Jaguares]

ABs starting XV

1. Joe Moody (12)
2. Dane Coles (37)
3. Owen Franks (79)
4. Brodie Retallick (48)
5. Sam Whitelock (73)
6. Jerome Kaino (68)
7. Sam Cane (32)
8. Kieran Read â€" captain (85)
9. Aaron Smith (48)
10. Aaron Cruden (38)
11. Waisake Naholo(4)
12. Ryan Crotty (16)
13. Malakai Fekitoa (14)
14. Ben Smith (49)
15. Israel Dagg (49)

Reserves

16. Nathan Harris (3)
17. Wyatt Crockett (46)
18. Charlie Faumuina (34)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (8)
20. Ardie Savea (1)
21. TJ Perenara (17)
22. Beauden Barrett (36)
23. Seta Tamanivalu (1)

 

[AzaMatt]

So it turns out the best fullback in the world has been shifted to the wing, I'm slightly more worried that he's there though as we are going to have a relatively inexperienced winger against him with north not playing. Wales team is being announced in around 5 hours time, can't imagine many changes from the first test apart from enforced changes due to injury, especially after our '2nd string' team got annihilated by the Chiefs I doubt any of those have warranted selection apart from maybe Charteris

 

[Every Time Ref]

Savea dropped then - I assume that's form not fitness?

I'm not that surprised, he's looked off the pace for a long time. Definitely a man not making the most of his ability.

Im pretty worried for Wales here. Everyone knows the best chance to beat NZ is in the first test of a window, and they played out of their skins but still lost by 18 points. Since then they've suffered a demoralising loss to a club team and are probably starting down the barrel of two thrashings before heading home. I can't imagine where there heads must be now, I just don't see them genuinely believing they can avoid the inevitable here, although I hope I'm wrong.

Assuming NZ do dominate the following tests (famous last words...) it is always interesting to see who stands up to be counted in adversity, who do people back to be Wales's big performers now? AWJ always puts a big shift in, my other prediction is ol' bandy-legs himself, Liam Williams. A player who has impressed me more every time I've seen him, one who stood out in the first test and who I can see having the temperament to thrive in the situation.

 

[AzaMatt]

Savea dropped then - I assume that's form not fitness?

I'm not that surprised, he's looked off the pace for a long time. Definitely a man not making the most of his ability.

Im pretty worried for Wales here. Everyone knows the best chance to beat NZ is in the first test of a window, and they played out of their skins but still lost by 18 points. Since then they've suffered a demoralising loss to a club team and are probably starting down the barrel of two thrashings before heading home. I can't imagine where there heads must be now, I just don't see them genuinely believing they can avoid the inevitable here, although I hope I'm wrong.

Assuming NZ do dominate the following tests (famous last words...) it is always interesting to see who stands up to be counted in adversity, who do people back to be Wales's big performers now? AWJ always puts a big shift in, my other prediction is ol' bandy-legs himself, Liam Williams. A player who has impressed me more every time I've seen him, one who stood out in the first test and who I can see having the temperament to thrive in the situation.

Williams definitely loves it, after smith created that try he seemed determined to show anything smith can do he can do as well. AWJ wasn't at his best so I'm expecting him to take it up a gear. I'm hoping that newbie Ellis Jenkins starts along with warburton, it'll be risky but i think it could work well if moriarty is rule out

 

[Larksea]

I'm glad savea is dropped, I really want to see him go away lean up and focus on getting his speed back.

on the flip side I really wish they wouldn't move Ben Smith around like that, Dagg has played wing for the AB's before and he did well, having to move Naholo as well a guy working hard to find his feet and find consistency at test level? Stupid IMO.

The only reason I can think of behind it is if they are considering moving Naholo to the left wing on a more permanent basis to accommodate Skudder on the right wing when he returns from injury. Even then I would still leave Smith at 15.

Also a bit gutted we have to wait another week to see McKenzie, it will really suck if the final test comes and he and dixon still dont get a shot...

 

[nzlizard]

I'm glad savea is dropped, I really want to see him go away lean up and focus on getting his speed back.

on the flip side I really wish they wouldn't move Ben Smith around like that, Dagg has played wing for the AB's before and he did well, having to move Naholo as well a guy working hard to find his feet and find consistency at test level? Stupid IMO.

The only reason I can think of behind it is if they are considering moving Naholo to the left wing on a more permanent basis to accommodate Skudder on the right wing when he returns from injury. Even then I would still leave Smith at 15.

Also a bit gutted we have to wait another week to see McKenzie, it will really suck if the final test comes and he and dixon still dont get a shot...

Yeah feel the same about moving Smith to the wing, but at the end of the day he is world class where ever he plays and I think you are right about the back 3, I would do that, drop Savea who is out of form and put Naholo on the left.

The only thing I don't like about Dixon is he tries to be a thug and that gives away penalties, he really needs to learn to not do stupid ****.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Yeah feel the same about moving Smith to the wing, but at the end of the day he is world class where ever he plays and I think you are right about the back 3, I would do that, drop Savea who is out of form and put Naholo on the left.

The only thing I don't like about Dixon is he tries to be a thug and that gives away penalties, he really needs to learn to not do stupid ****.

I'm probably in a boat of my own here, but I prefer Shields to Dixon, both for his play and the fact that he's not a ****.

 

[nickdnz]

I'm not jumping onto the Savea bandwagon - I think a guy who has scored 39 tries in 42 tests has earned a fair bit of patience.

With that said, I can't help but feel he could have really benefited from joining the 7s program this year.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'm not jumping onto the Savea bandwagon - I think a guy who has scored 39 tries in 42 tests has earned a fair bit of patience.

With that said, I can't help but feel he could have really benefited from joining the 7s program this year.

Not saying he should be jettisoned forever, more of a "kick up the arse" kind of dropping. It's a question of man management, and maybe not knowing him I'm completely wrong - but seems like his form drop is complacency rather than lack of confidence, so needs a kick up the arse rather than an arm round the shoulder.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'm not jumping onto the Savea bandwagon - I think a guy who has scored 39 tries in 42 tests has earned a fair bit of patience.

With that said, I can't help but feel he could have really benefited from joining the 7s program this year.

Would Savea have gotten into the 7s squad? Seriously doubt he has the fitness, pace or footwork to compete there. In 1 on 1 situations he would be slaughtered by the pace and stepping ability of 7s players. And although I don't know a lot about 7s, I doubt the NZ 7s would've taken more than 1 big winger. And at the moment that role is being very well filled by Lam.

I'm not going to jump on Savea and say that he's complacent or hasn't been working hard enough, as really we have no idea, none of us have ever trained with him, so I think it's un fair to accuse him of that. That said, focusing more on his mobility instead of his power would do him a world of good.

He is the undoubtedly the best winger that's graced this side of 2010, so hopefully he can pick up his game again. Would be disastrous to see a player like him burn out at 25.

 

[nightmarehitter]

Elliot Dixon vs Brad Shields is a none event. Shields is a workhorse with superb strength. Dixon is somewhat a freak of a talent. Strong, Workhorse but still bloody dynamic, make incredible metres with his ball carries and smashes the rucks. HE is a dream forward and probably should of already debuted for the the All Blacks.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Elliot Dixon vs Brad Shields is a none event. Shields is a workhorse with superb strength. Dixon is somewhat a freak of a talent. Strong, Workhorse but still bloody dynamic, make incredible metres with his ball carries and smashes the rucks. HE is a dream forward and probably should of already debuted for the the All Blacks.

Do you see Shields ever picking up caps? I'd have thought that once Kaino's phased out (he's 32, can't see him playing internationally past the Lions tour) Dixon and Shields will be fighting it out for 6, Cane and Savea for 7, and Read at 8 with Ioane being his successor/impact sub before that.

 

[nightmarehitter]

Do you see Shields ever picking up caps? I'd have thought that once Kaino's phased out (he's 32, can't see him playing internationally past the Lions tour) Dixon and Shields will be fighting it out for 6, Cane and Savea for 7, and Read at 8 with Ioane being his successor/impact sub before that.

Good question and im not entirely sure. Shields is a very old school styled play, raw boned he has a lot to offer and is maturing as a player. But he has some stiff competition in front of him with dynamic skill sets. I guess it would be down to the role the AB coaches want their number 6 to play. I have bolded the players I think could possibly stop him from advancing to the All Blacks. Ioane and then Dixon is the pick of the bunch most certainly.

Taleni Seu - Rising through the ranks rapidly. Seen a s a great talent
Tom Sanders
Blake Gibson - if the log jam continues at 7 for NZ rugby could be encouraged to take up a 6 role
Akira Ioane - Freak, Freak, Freak - future All Black Great in many peoples eyes
Steven Luatua
Vaea Fafita - Extremely atheletic and gifted, needs development but has great upside
Jordan Taufua
Liam Squire - Currently in the All Blacks Squad, plays like a monster ball in hand, extremely physical
Eliott Dixon - Probably the best forward in super rugby right now.

 

[Larksea]

NZ has a ridiculous production line of talented blindsides/#8 type players, basically pick your poison because they all have potential to be test players.

of course we have the incumbents of Kaino & Messam(currently in the 7s)
then we have:
Dixon
Luatua
Shields
Luke Whitelock
Akira Ioane
Jordan Taufua
Squire

Honestly none of these guys would be out of place in the All Blacks.

And heck look at the loose forwards that played for the chiefs on Tuesday. Seu's name had been mentioned as a potential though unlikely All Black Bolter.

I really rate Shields, I personally rate him above Luatua & Taufua, right up there with Dixon. And I think hes been unlucky not to have gotten a run with the AB's yet.

Obviously everyone is eagerly anticipating Akira Ioane's future. Pretty much a dead certainty that he will pull on an All Black jersey in the near future.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

On the subject of Ioane, again I'm probably in a boat on my own here, but I don't rate him that much in 15s yet. Sure, when given open space he can do serious damage, which is great if you're a 13/wing, but he's a 6/8. His carrying in the tight is far from impressive and as a grafter in defence and at the break down he's really nothing special. He excels at 7s, but has not yet really converted that to 15s (I know he's gotten a couple of superb tries, but what else?). Not saying he won't be a great, but in my eyes he has a long way to go before being considered as an international back rower. He's got to become more than a wide channel ball-carrier, and I'm sure he can as if he did he could be the best 8 in the world.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

[FONT=&quot]Wales: Rhys Patchell; Liam Williams, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Hallam Amos; Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb; Gethin Jenkins, Ken Owens, Samson Lee; Luke Charteris, Alun Wyn Jones; Ross Moriarty, Sam Warburton, Taulupe Faletau.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Reps: Scott Baldwin, Rob Evans, Tomas Francis, Bradley Davies, Ellis Jenkins, Gareth Davies, Rhys Priestland, Scott Williams.[/FONT]

 

[nightmarehitter]

On the subject of Ioane, again I'm probably in a boat on my own here, but I don't rate him that much in 15s yet. Sure, when given open space he can do serious damage, which is great if you're a 13/wing, but he's a 6/8. His carrying in the tight is far from impressive and as a grafter in defence and at the break down he's really nothing special. He excels at 7s, but has not yet really converted that to 15s (I know he's gotten a couple of superb tries, but what else?). Not saying he won't be a great, but in my eyes he has a long way to go before being considered as an international back rower. He's got to become more than a wide channel ball-carrier, and I'm sure he can as if he did he could be the best 8 in the world.

Good points though im not sure you watched last years ITM Cup as you may be surprised to know that at 19 years of age Akira Ioane is the first player in the history of provincial rugby in New Zealand to have the most line breaks in a season from playing in the forwards. He was in ultra beast mode. In last years ITM cup he simply destroyed the opposition forward packs and had an incredible stat of only being tackled by the first tackle attempt in only 1 in 10 runs ball in hand. If you were unlucky enough to be a back aiming up to him it was basically mission impossible.

He is is only 20 years of age and I suspect will need a couple of seasons of super rugby under his belt to be ready for the ABs. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see his almost just as incredible younger brother Reiko make the All Blacks before him on the wing.

Also remember Akira's focus this year has been on olympics/sevens, he has dropped weight off his frame to transition and his focus has not been on super rugby, though he has played a few games due to being a must pick. He will return a hell of a player with even more new found skills and a drilled work ethic. Spending all those months training next to SBW will have a massive impact on Ioane.