June International Test: Australia vs. England [2nd Test] (18/06/2016)

[Ka_Mate]

Jealous of what?
I support France, not the Boks.

Cheika needs to work more with the backline.:

England just 29% of possession and 26% of territory during the game.

Is damning evidence the Australian backline is not performing properly.

On top of that, the whole Hooper, Pocock, Fardy routine is getting old.


Now, I'm going to ask you and don't reply with a stupid comment like "one eyed" Kiwi. But do you really think the AB's will go through a match with that much territory and possession and only score 1 try?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Cheika needs to work more with the backline.:

England just 29% of possession and 26% of territory during the game.

Is damning evidence the Australian backline is not performing properly.

On top of that, the whole Hooper, Pocock, Fardy routine is getting old.


Now, I'm going to ask you and don't reply with a stupid comment like "one eyed" Kiwi. But do you really think the AB's will go through a match with that much territory and possession and only score 1 try?

But Pocock didn't play today.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Cheika needs to work more with the backline.:

England just 29% of possession and 26% of territory during the game.

Is damning evidence the Australian backline is not performing properly.

On top of that, the whole Hooper, Pocock, Fardy routine is getting old.


Now, I'm going to ask you and don't reply with a stupid comment like "one eyed" Kiwi. But do you really think the AB's will go through a match with that much territory and possession and only score 1 try?

I will say this. You are doubting England's ability to lift their game and their play for the AB's, under Jones. Oz were bad today, but England will certainly be a lot better when they meet the All Black's.

 

[Ka_Mate]

I will say this. You are doubting England's ability to lift their game and their play for the AB's, under Jones. Oz were bad today, but England will certainly be a lot better when they meet the All Black's.

I think you're doubting our ability to.

Australia were dreadful today. Great defense and clinical when they needed to be from England, but I wouldn't be overly happy with those stats and Aussie beat themselves at the end of the day, lack of patience, vision and stupid decision making (not taking 3 points).

The All Blacks would punish any side with those lop sided stats and land the killing blows when the teams are worn out from defending (England looked shattered in the 65th minute), but Australia lacked the quality of the bench to really penetrate Englands defense. The AB's quality of the bench just steam rolls most opposition.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Do you reckon Jones may consider Yarde and Nowell wings next week considering that of the 3 wingers, Watson has performed the worst? He's been missing tackles and against the faster Oz side has offered nothing in attack either. Of course, with the series won, Jones may go for Nowell or Watson at 15, but it's unlikely.

 

[Rockradar]

I will say this. You are doubting England's ability to lift their game and their play for the AB's, under Jones. Oz were bad today, but England will certainly be a lot better when they meet the All Black's.

Of course England's going to lift their game. At this time, NZ vs ENG next week would be a great game. I'd pick All Blacks of course but like you said ENG will lift their game. I guess it's up to ENG to stay undefeated till then and really fuel the fire for that match up.

In saying that and a BIG what if...what if AUS thrash them next week like 50 nil?

Also regarding AUS playing bad, it's 2 games man come on. ENG is looking a lot better than last year. Good defence!

 

[Mike Rolls]

To be fair what have the NZ done of note recently?

OHHHH Beat Wales WOW, that is really really difficult to do, England only manged to trash them with our 2nds/3rds team.

Basically the Rankings are flawed England ATM are the bestest team is the whole wide worlds.

Much as I would like to agree with you, it is a bit difficult to accept that contention. Naturally, I am delighted that England have won a series in Australia for the first time, but if you look at the record of the major sides, since 1/1/2011 the All Balcks have played 67 matches nd been beatne just 5 times - twice each buy australia and SOuthe africe, once by England. Looking at the record of the major sides over the same time scale is a bit illuminating - or daunting, if one prefers;-
England played 66 lost 20
Australia played 60 lost 27
South Africa played 59 lost 19
France played 64 lost 31
Wales played 72 lost 32
Ireland played 65 lost 26
Oh, and the All Blacks record inclues two RWCs - and don't forget that they play a higher proportion of their games agaisnt Australi and South Africa than do any of the NH teams. I am a keen England supporter, but I hope a realistic one - the autumn game should be interesting
Mike

 

[Tony Manx]

Much as I would like to agree with you, it is a bit difficult to accept that contention. Naturally, I am delighted that England have won a series in Australia for the first time, but if you look at the record of the major sides, since 1/1/2011 the All Balcks have played 67 matches nd been beatne just 5 times - twice each buy australia and SOuthe africe, once by England. Looking at the record of the major sides over the same time scale is a bit illuminating - or daunting, if one prefers;-
England played 66 lost 20
Australia played 60 lost 27
South Africa played 59 lost 19
France played 64 lost 31
Wales played 72 lost 32
Ireland played 65 lost 26
Oh, and the All Blacks record inclues two RWCs - and don't forget that they play a higher proportion of their games agaisnt Australi and South Africa than do any of the NH teams. I am a keen England supporter, but I hope a realistic one - the autumn game should be interesting
Mike

Think you will find he was taking a leak!!

 

[XIII]

Maaaan, Aus dissapointed me, big time, i can't say more.

England definitely showed tons of improvement, yet, i can't think how they could beat the ABs, they have the best backrow, a dynamic and strong backrow. Their backs can kick, have sick handling skills and are more creative. Also, when Ngtai and Ioane become available to the squad, the ABs are going to have a big boost, if they are actually what they seem to be. England may beat them, but to do so, they have to play ball, Nz can't be beaten by a team that defend the whole game.

 

[Kempistry]

A few thoughts:
- I thought Joubard did a terrible job, allowing England to consistently not release, play offside, diving over the ball etc. England were fine in the last 20 but prior were consistently infringing. His ruling on the Robshaw choke of Phipps made no sense to me either.
- Australia is evidently allergic to forwards picking up off the base of the ruck. When the entire team is exhausted though after 15 phases and you are on their 5, give it a go. Low risk. I also don't understand avoiding penalty kicks. Take the points.
- I like the Aussie offensive structure, but it seems very predictable. Group of three, repeat, Foley. They needed to do something different with dummy runners or something to move the ball wide against England's rush defense.
- I know they don't want to kick, but there seemed to be many opportunities for backs to kick from 12 out but they never opted to.
- Great defense by England and great kicking. However, they weren't really out to play rugby and if that's what a rugby game consists of, I'm not that interested. Crash, crash, kick. Return. Kick. Try to draw penalty. Kick. Meh. Good on Jones for playing to their strengths, but to me it is boring rugby.

 

[Scotty]

Is it just me or could we have won that without our bench.

Was a few very late subs and starting xv played their hearts out and gave everything for the win

Any thoughts?

 

[Tony Manx]

A few thoughts:
- I thought Joubard did a terrible job, allowing England to consistently not release, play offside, diving over the ball etc. England were fine in the last 20 but prior were consistently infringing. His ruling on the Robshaw choke of Phipps made no sense to me either.
- Australia is evidently allergic to forwards picking up off the base of the ruck. When the entire team is exhausted though after 15 phases and you are on their 5, give it a go. Low risk. I also don't understand avoiding penalty kicks. Take the points.
- I like the Aussie offensive structure, but it seems very predictable. Group of three, repeat, Foley. They needed to do something different with dummy runners or something to move the ball wide against England's rush defense.
- I know they don't want to kick, but there seemed to be many opportunities for backs to kick from 12 out but they never opted to.
- Great defense by England and great kicking. However, they weren't really out to play rugby and if that's what a rugby game consists of, I'm not that interested. Crash, crash, kick. Return. Kick. Try to draw penalty. Kick. Meh. Good on Jones for playing to their strengths, but to me it is boring rugby.

Interesting? Well not really......

 

[Mike Rolls]

Think you will find he was taking a leak!!

Ah!
Mike

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

England Player Round Up: Sorry that I bring up defence in every one of these, but it's all England did.
1. M. Vunipola - 17 tackles in about 60 minutes, for a big lad had a great work rate. Also made some good carries, but never made a particularly big impact. 6/10
2. D. Hartley - 17 tackles, and of the front-rowers was on the pitch for the longest amount of time, so a great work rate too. Got himself a try. Lineouts were off put whether that was down to him or not is questionable. Led the team brilliantly. 7/10
3. D. Cole - Not much to say, scrummed well and didn't give away anything in defence. 6/10
4. M. Itoje - Gave away a pretty stupid penalty, but other than that did well. 20 tackles and was on for the whole game, for a 21 year old excellent fitness. 7/10
5. G. Kruis - Anonymous in open play and I'd say the lineout players were down to him. Called it to himself every time which was predictable and maybe ball hungry. 5/10
6. C. Robshaw - MOTM, made a crucial turnover, crucial kick and as always his work rate was unbelievable. 9/10
7. J. Haskell - My MOTM, made 21 tackles, a lot of which drove the carrier backwards and the speed of the defensive line was noticeably slower once he went off. 9/10
8. B. Vunipola - Carried very well, showed good pace and fitness for a man of his size. 1 of 2 forwards to play the whole game, making 18 tackles. Great performance. 8/10
9. B. Youngs - Not a bad performance but did stitch up Haskell on the 5 metre line with a poor pass. Also made a pretty poor box kick, but other than that was solid. 5/10
10. G. Ford - Put in an uncharacteristically good defensive effort. Saw him drive Folau back in 1 tackle (Albeit with some help from Haskell). His kicking out of hand was tactically superb. 7/10
11. J. Nowell - Cleared up a lot of Ford's kicks and gave nothing away in defence. Proved that despite a lack of pace, is England's best back three player. That said, didn't offer much in attack today, although he didn't get any ball to be fair to him. 7/10
12. O. Farrell - Serious contender for man of the series. His kicking may be the best in the world ATM and also bagged himself a try. Genuinely world class player. 9/10
13. J. Joseph - Defensively gave nothing away and did very well early on to collect an awkwardly bouncing Ford kick. Nothing in attack, but again, got no ball. 6/10
14. A. Watson - Offered nothing in attack and got bullied a bit in defence. Also knocked the ball on a couple of times. I'd have thought EJ will be considering putting Yarde in for him next week. 4/10
15. M. Brown - His age has caught up with him. Practically threw the ball forwards in 1 situation and offered nothing in attack. That said, he did put in a good cover tackle on Kuridrani (I think it was Kuridrani, don't hold me to it though). 4/10

16. J. George - Only got about 15 mins, but made the most of them. His grubber kick set up Faz's try and didn't do anything wrong. 7/10
17. M. Mullan - Anonymous, didn't get much time though and didn't give anything away. 5/10
18. P. Hill - Didn't notice him, but that means he didn't do anything wrong - 5/10
19. J. Launchbury - Set up Lawes for his break which led to the Faz try. Other than that didn't notice him though. 6/10
20. C. Lawes - Made the break that set up the Faz try, showing what he can do ball in hand. Has potentially put himself ahead of Kruis and Launch in the 2nd row rankings. 7/10
21. J. Clifford - Same as Hill. 5/10
22. D. Care - Not much to say on him really. Don't think he did anything wrong but expected more from him after last week's break. 5/10
23. E. Daly - No point commenting on him, he got 5 minutes on the wing. Who knows/10

The team I'd like to see next week:
1. M. Vunipola
2. D. Hartley
3. D. Cole
4. M. Itoje
5. C. Lawes (Kruis just isn't as effective in the SH)
6. C. Robshaw
7. J. Haskell
8. B. Vunipola
9. D. Care (I see no harm in giving him a decent run out)
10. Ford
11. Yarde
12. O. Farrell
13. J. Joseph
14. J. Nowell
15. A. Watson (Brown needs dropping. I'd prefer to have Nowell here, but then you don't get his kick chase, which may be the best in the world. So I've settled for Watson. It may spark some form in him)

16. J. George
17. E. Genge (Deserves a run out. Also provides great impact off the bench)
18. P. Hill
19. J. Launchbury
20. T. Harrison (I think his aggressive play will make him more effective than "clean-as-a-whistle Clifford")
21. Youngs
22. Slade (Provides 10/12 cover and should get a go)
23. Daly (Covers 13, wing and fullback. Still hasn't gotten a decent run out for England)

 

[Peat]

I think you might want to mark the props up.

 

[stus768]

I think you're over egging lawes run. He ran in a straight line. That is all.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I think you're over egging lawes run. He ran in a straight line. That is all.

Maybe I should clarify that I haven't put him ahead of Kruis and Launch purely for that, he was also solid in defence and his hand off against Jamie Roberts vs Wales plays on repeat whenever I think about his recent peformances. As well as that, on the run he put in today he put in a pretty meaty hand off that I don't think Kruis or Launch would've managed. He was also solid in the lineout.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you might want to mark the props up.

Really? I won't deny it, I just don't think they were on the same level as Hartley, Itoje or Nowell. Maybe Mako was, but IMO not Cole. In my eyes, 6/10 is till a good score, so I don't think I'm underrating them. Maybe we just have a different idea of score boundaries.

 

[TommiG88]

I think England's tactics were perfect today, they learnt from last week and obviously decided that being 1-0 up in the series they could let Aus take the risk, in which they did. That's the best defending I've seen from England in a long time and we are being clinical. I don't expect us to play as defensively next week.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I think England's tactics were perfect today, they learnt from last week and obviously decided that being 1-0 up in the series they could let Aus take the risk, in which they did. That's the best defending I've seen from England in a long time and we are being clinical. I don't expect us to play as defensively next week.

I'd go so far as to say it's the best defensive display I've ever seen a team put in. As for the being clinical, absolutely. I'm not sure on the possession stats in the 2nd half but I'm going to assume it was around 85% Oz, 15% England. Aus, with 85% of possession in the 2nd half scored 0 points. England with their 15% scored 10. That's about as clinical as it gets.

I agree, I can't see them being as defensive next week. I'm not sure that after the battering today they physically could be. Emotionally as well, now that the series is won I can't see them having the same defensive drive. They'll have to switch tactics to win next week.

 

[McTallshort]

England Player Round Up: Sorry that I bring up defence in every one of these, but it's all England did.
1. M. Vunipola - 17 tackles in about 60 minutes, for a big lad had a great work rate. Also made some good carries, but never made a particularly big impact. 6/10
2. D. Hartley - 17 tackles, and of the front-rowers was on the pitch for the longest amount of time, so a great work rate too. Got himself a try. Lineouts were off put whether that was down to him or not is questionable. Led the team brilliantly. 7/10
3. D. Cole - Not much to say, scrummed well and didn't give away anything in defence. 6/10
4. M. Itoje - Gave away a pretty stupid penalty, but other than that did well. 20 tackles and was on for the whole game, for a 21 year old excellent fitness. 7/10
5. G. Kruis - Anonymous in open play and I'd say the lineout players were down to him. Called it to himself every time which was predictable and maybe ball hungry. 5/10
6. C. Robshaw - MOTM, made a crucial turnover, crucial kick and as always his work rate was unbelievable. 9/10
7. J. Haskell - My MOTM, made 21 tackles, a lot of which drove the carrier backwards and the speed of the defensive line was noticeably slower once he went off. 9/10
8. B. Vunipola - Carried very well, showed good pace and fitness for a man of his size. 1 of 2 forwards to play the whole game, making 18 tackles. Great performance. 8/10
9. B. Youngs - Not a bad performance but did stitch up Haskell on the 5 metre line with a poor pass. Also made a pretty poor box kick, but other than that was solid. 5/10
10. G. Ford - Put in an uncharacteristically good defensive effort. Saw him drive Folau back in 1 tackle (Albeit with some help from Haskell). His kicking out of hand was tactically superb. 7/10
11. J. Nowell - Cleared up a lot of Ford's kicks and gave nothing away in defence. Proved that despite a lack of pace, is England's best back three player. That said, didn't offer much in attack today, although he didn't get any ball to be fair to him. 7/10
12. O. Farrell - Serious contender for man of the series. His kicking may be the best in the world ATM and also bagged himself a try. Genuinely world class player. 9/10
13. J. Joseph - Defensively gave nothing away and did very well early on to collect an awkwardly bouncing Ford kick. Nothing in attack, but again, got no ball. 6/10
14. A. Watson - Offered nothing in attack and got bullied a bit in defence. Also knocked the ball on a couple of times. I'd have thought EJ will be considering putting Yarde in for him next week. 4/10
15. M. Brown - His age has caught up with him. Practically threw the ball forwards in 1 situation and offered nothing in attack. That said, he did put in a good cover tackle on Kuridrani (I think it was Kuridrani, don't hold me to it though). 4/10

16. J. George - Only got about 15 mins, but made the most of them. His grubber kick set up Faz's try and didn't do anything wrong. 7/10
17. M. Mullan - Anonymous, didn't get much time though and didn't give anything away. 5/10
18. P. Hill - Didn't notice him, but that means he didn't do anything wrong - 5/10
19. J. Launchbury - Set up Lawes for his break which led to the Faz try. Other than that didn't notice him though. 6/10
20. C. Lawes - Made the break that set up the Faz try, showing what he can do ball in hand. Has potentially put himself ahead of Kruis and Launch in the 2nd row rankings. 7/10
21. J. Clifford - Same as Hill. 5/10
22. D. Care - Not much to say on him really. Don't think he did anything wrong but expected more from him after last week's break. 5/10
23. E. Daly - No point commenting on him, he got 5 minutes on the wing. Who knows/10

The team I'd like to see next week:
1. M. Vunipola
2. D. Hartley
3. D. Cole
4. M. Itoje
5. C. Lawes (Kruis just isn't as effective in the SH)
6. C. Robshaw
7. J. Haskell
8. B. Vunipola
9. D. Care (I see no harm in giving him a decent run out)
10. Ford
11. Yarde
12. O. Farrell
13. J. Joseph
14. J. Nowell
15. A. Watson (Brown needs dropping. I'd prefer to have Nowell here, but then you don't get his kick chase, which may be the best in the world. So I've settled for Watson. It may spark some form in him)

16. J. George
17. E. Genge (Deserves a run out. Also provides great impact off the bench)
18. P. Hill
19. J. Launchbury
20. T. Harrison (I think his aggressive play will make him more effective than "clean-as-a-whistle Clifford")
21. Youngs
22. Slade (Provides 10/12 cover and should get a go)
23. Daly (Covers 13, wing and fullback. Still hasn't gotten a decent run out for England)

Completely wrong about Kruis, struggled a bit in the line out but did an amazing shift in regards rucks hit and tackles made. Far superior to Lawes