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Japan vs. Tonga. Pacific Nations Cup 25/05/13

Yeah just finished watching the 2nd half since I went to bed after the first. Japan just took too long to get into the game, and the Tongans were too physical. A pretty good game though both teams looking to attack and create oppourtunities.

The teams were pretty evenly matched. Apart from one difference in the match was clear, one team made the other work hard for their tries, the other gifted them too easily. Tonga shouldn't be overly happy, neither should Japan be too disheartened. Plenty of positives and negatives for both.

Why the hell did Japan keep turning down penalties by the way? They didn't even attempt a shot at goal and kept going for the maul which worked once. So they gained 5 points but lost the chance to get at least 9 or 12. I can't understand their logic, at one stage they were under pressure came out of it won a penalty from about 35 metres straight and took a quick tap, when surely points after a period of pressure was sensible? It seemed they were playing more to get tries rather than points like it was an exhibition game.

I don't think Tonga looked unbeatable for the rest, likewise I wouldn't rule out Japan either. The real good thing about this competition is that although the schedule is poor, the teams are all so evenly matched so any team can beat each other and it wouldn't be particularly surprising. I wouldn't be surprised if about three teams end up on 2 wins and two teams end up on 3 wins.
 
The teams were pretty evenly matched. Apart from one difference in the match was clear, one team made the other work hard for their tries, the other gifted them too easily. Tonga shouldn't be overly happy, neither should Japan be too disheartened. Plenty of positives and negatives for both.

Why the hell did Japan keep turning down penalties by the way? They didn't even attempt a shot at goal and kept going for the maul which worked once. So they gained 5 points but lost the chance to get at least 9 or 12. I can't understand their logic, at one stage they were under pressure came out of it won a penalty from about 35 metres straight and took a quick tap, when surely points after a period of pressure was sensible? It seemed they were playing more to get tries rather than points like it was an exhibition game.

I don't think Tonga looked unbeatable for the rest, likewise I wouldn't rule out Japan either. The real good thing about this competition is that although the schedule is poor, the teams are all so evenly matched so any team can beat each other and it wouldn't be particularly surprising. I wouldn't be surprised if about three teams end up on 2 wins and two teams end up on 3 wins.

Great analysis PD, I wonder whether Japan weren't confident in their goalkicking, their kicker did miss some kicks and maybe they got nervous about losing the ball and opted for the corner. I think Japan waited a little bit too long to start swinging it out wide, I was watching the game and chatting with Shaggy in the first half and we were wondering why they weren't doing that, they also didn't take much advantage of their man advantage when Tonga had a man in the bin.

Attendance was 5,598....not embarrasing but nothing to write home about either, I'll try and find out attendance for Canada's game today(which I'm guessing is around 4,000 considering the small venue).
 
Tongan boys real happy with the Result. The boys only got together 2 days before the match!! with most of that time spent meeting and a quick captains runs the performance was pretty sharp considering. Tongan Coach Mana Otai has decided to rest a number of players including Soane Tonga'iuha, Sona Taumalolo while others are taking a break with Families Vili Ma'afu and Joe Tuineau. It's something new having a constant player pool of regulars involved in the squad every year which should bring more consistent results for Tonga like Pacific Neighbors Samoa.

In regards to the match good to see Emosi Kauhenga back who was full of strong running. With Mana Otai resting players a few players have put their hand up which would make it hard to select a starting side come November.
 
Great analysis PD, I wonder whether Japan weren't confident in their goalkicking, their kicker did miss some kicks and maybe they got nervous about losing the ball and opted for the corner. I think Japan waited a little bit too long to start swinging it out wide, I was watching the game and chatting with Shaggy in the first half and we were wondering why they weren't doing that, they also didn't take much advantage of their man advantage when Tonga had a man in the bin.

Goromaru was in good kicking form in the recent A5N. He only attempted 1 penalty in the 3 games he played, and those were the first points of the tournament in the opener vs. the Philippines. He was hitting conversions from all over the park, and was very good from the touchlines. I haven't watched the match, but very surprising to hear he was off the mark although he hadn't played in a match in a few weeks.
 
Goromaru was in good kicking form in the recent A5N. He only attempted 1 penalty in the 3 games he played, and those were the first points of the tournament in the opener vs. the Philippines. He was hitting conversions from all over the park, and was very good from the touchlines. I haven't watched the match, but very surprising to hear he was off the mark although he hadn't played in a match in a few weeks.

Both kickers were poor, it may have been a wind issue, he seemed to have a decent technique but just kept slightly missing.
 
Great analysis PD, I wonder whether Japan weren't confident in their goalkicking, their kicker did miss some kicks and maybe they got nervous about losing the ball and opted for the corner. I think Japan waited a little bit too long to start swinging it out wide, I was watching the game and chatting with Shaggy in the first half and we were wondering why they weren't doing that, they also didn't take much advantage of their man advantage when Tonga had a man in the bin.

Attendance was 5,598....not embarrasing but nothing to write home about either, I'll try and find out attendance for Canada's game today(which I'm guessing is around 4,000 considering the small venue).

In fairness one of the conversions was from the corner after a maul. So there was just one relatively simple missed kick. I don't think that should have put him off attempting them, it's not like he missed 3 easy kicks in a row. And as has been mentioned, Goromaru is normally a good over 80% goal kicker, last year he toured Eastern Europe and was hitting nearly all kicks from within 50 metres out.

Agree about Japan swinging it wide as well, they looked better doing that whilst Tonga seemed to be slowing them down and turning them over in the tight. I think a couple of the Japanese forwards got exposed coming from Asian 5 Nations intensity matches, the flanker Broadhurst was a mile off the level of Leitch at the breakdown and physicality. Leitch is probably their best forward he should help with their problems at the breakdown when he returns. Big positives for Japan though was a perfect lineout, and much improved scrum, their replacement wing Kenki Fukuoka also looks to have some serious pace.

They have some good skills and attacking play, but I question their brain power as to when/how to use it. Sometimes it felt they were playing over attacking, at others it felt they were trying to maul to often. I do query the leadership and decision making of the captain and the scrum half. Perhaps Tanaka can improve their speed of the ball out the ruck when he returns.

As for the crowd, that kind of figure is similar to last year and is becoming a bit of a concern for RWC 2019 unless it picks up. They got just under 14,000 for the Top League final, I'm surprised they can't even get near double figures for a national team match against pretty good opposition.

I heard from someone who follows rugby in Japan, that he is really concerned about RWC 2019 attendances, and that it might not just be the Fiji vs Russia type matches that we'll be worrying about, it could be like France vs Samoa level matches that will struggle to sell. The 2019 World Cup will take place at more like 60,000 football grounds, and this took place at a 15,000 ground and they didn't come close to selling out. The JRFU desperately need to kickstart some sort of marketing campaign soon to boost this, their efforts so far to promote the World Cup have been poor. Hopefully they can get a sell out for Wales. Nobody wants to see an empty World Cup.

Tongan boys real happy with the Result. The boys only got together 2 days before the match!! with most of that time spent meeting and a quick captains runs the performance was pretty sharp considering. Tongan Coach Mana Otai has decided to rest a number of players including Soane Tonga'iuha, Sona Taumalolo while others are taking a break with Families Vili Ma'afu and Joe Tuineau. It's something new having a constant player pool of regulars involved in the squad every year which should bring more consistent results for Tonga like Pacific Neighbors Samoa.

In regards to the match good to see Emosi Kauhenga back who was full of strong running. With Mana Otai resting players a few players have put their hand up which would make it hard to select a starting side come November.

Defence coach Dave Ellis certainly has to get some credit for the way he organised the defending. Very impressive, and Japan although not their defence and tight play lets them down, attacking wise they are up there and better than some Tier 1 teams in terms of passing ability, set pieces and wide game.

Nili Latu is one of the most consistent players, he did really well at RWC 2007, then I didn't see him play again until 2012 and he was still as good. Hale T-Pole also had a good game, as did Kauhenga as you said. In the backs, I think Fetu'u Vainikolo again proved himself as a top finisher.

By the way, how come Tonga got reasonable strong side available for a match outside the international window? There were a few missing in the front row, and with Ma'afu. But by and large this was a strong team and had the majority of the team that beat Scotland.

Canada/USA hardly got anybody from European clubs with the likes of MacKenzie (Sale), Wyles (Saracens) all missing despite their seasons being over. But Tonga got Vainikolo (Connacht/Exeter), Piukula (Perpignan) available and Taniela Moa who flew out after playing the Pro D2 final last week.

Checking out the game right now...boy those Pac. Islanders have come a long way the past few years...:

Yes, well two of them. And in both cases it comes from making good advantage of their favourite moan ... New Zealand. They are taking advantage of their close proximity meaning that a large amount of their teams are trained in the NZ rugby system as youths, and also finding lots of New Zealanders of Tongan/Samoan origin to play for them.
 
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^ uh huh...right. Thx for the info, as always !
Well what can I say, purely legit or not, they only have one thing in these islands where the world notices them for a while (albeit, ephemeral...) and it's Rugby, and they can shock some Tier 1 nations...good for them, they at least play very, very hard, can't take heart away from them.

And goddaaaaamnn they look mighty spicy on attack most the time ! A pleasure to watch...I like how they've become so much more disciplined lately, they can score tries but also keep the opponents try-less or low scoring at least. Tonga/Samoa can srsly defend, like, not just saying that to please anyone. Legit defense.
 
^ uh huh...right. Thx for the info, as always !
Well what can I say, purely legit or not, they only have one thing in these islands where the world notices them for a while (albeit, ephemeral...) and it's Rugby, and they can shock some Tier 1 nations...good for them, they at least play very, very hard, can't take heart away from them.

And goddaaaaamnn they look mighty spicy on attack most the time ! A pleasure to watch...I like how they've become so much more disciplined lately, they can score tries but also keep the opponents try-less or low scoring at least. Tonga/Samoa can srsly defend, like, not just saying that to please anyone. Legit defense.

Tonga have the former France defence coach Dave Ellis working for them. He was the defence coach under Laporte and Lievremont, and regardless of what those two did elsewhere coaching, the defence was normally very solid for France over the last decade. Especially under Laporte where France once defended for 80% of a match against the world's best attack in New Zealand and won the quarter final.

Under Ellis, Tonga have been able to soak up attack and defend for many phases patiently. They spent much of the USA and Scotland matches last November defending but hardly conceded a try. Japan are actually one of the best attacking sides and actually far better than some Tier 1 teams like Scotland and Italy for sure (I can't remember Italy ever scoring a try nearly as good as Japan's second one http://youtu.be/M98OHS8d3YQ?t=1h9m28s), but whilst they have a high standard in passing and running ability they hold themselves back with passive and meek defending.

So whilst their attack is better than some Tier 1 teams, their defence is one of the weakest of Tier 2 sides and they allowed Tonga tries too easily whilst Japan had to work hard for theirs, their defence world away from what Samoa and Tonga offer, both of whom are top sides defensively. Japan matches are always great for a neutral though, as there are plenty tries both ways normally.
 
Yeah I looked at their website and it hasn't been updated since the middle of the last RWC. You'd think even a few fans would volunteer some very basic match details, or at least some scorelines, they are ranked 11th in the world and essentially have no website.

Edit: The twitter idea is great, it can be used for lienups and the like or even basic press info to give out, it's a little embarrasing they don't even have that. Do Samoa and Fiji have anything better?

http://fijilive.com/sports/rugby is where I go, their facebook page always do live updates of the scores too
https://www.facebook.com/pages/FijiLive/493322455045?fref=ts

Tongan boys real happy with the Result. The boys only got together 2 days before the match!! with most of that time spent meeting and a quick captains runs the performance was pretty sharp considering. Tongan Coach Mana Otai has decided to rest a number of players including Soane Tonga'iuha, Sona Taumalolo while others are taking a break with Families Vili Ma'afu and Joe Tuineau. It's something new having a constant player pool of regulars involved in the squad every year which should bring more consistent results for Tonga like Pacific Neighbors Samoa.

In regards to the match good to see Emosi Kauhenga back who was full of strong running. With Mana Otai resting players a few players have put their hand up which would make it hard to select a starting side come November.

Thats crazy since Japan got to play together in the Asian 5 Nations before this, seems like Japan have an advantage over the other teams. Fiji only had their first training session together today
 
Thats crazy since Japan got to play together in the Asian 5 Nations before this, seems like Japan have an advantage over the other teams. Fiji only had their first training session together today

Whilst they do have much more time together in preparation than any other Tier 2 team. I think playing the Asian 5 Nations actually turned out to be a bad thing for them, as some of the opposition like the UAE was basically just touch rugby. With the exception of Hong Kong, all the A5N teams are just too easy and Japan became unaccustomed to the normal physicality they would face in the PNC, whilst the Tongans had been playing a better level in various leagues and were actually better prepared physically if not better prepared in terms of teamwork and set piece.

Eddie Jones echoed my thoughts there as well about perhaps playing opposition you can walk through doing more harm than good. It's hard for Eddie Jones to gauge the level of the players in A5N as they are all tend to look good and have literally no defensive work to do. A couple of the Japanese forwards got exposed at the higher level.

I think Japan need to start playing their U20 or A team or something in the A5N next year, the matches against UAE and Philippines do not prepare them well. Only Hong Kong is worth playing against as a practice run.
 
Whilst they do have much more time together in preparation than any other Tier 2 team. I think playing the Asian 5 Nations actually turned out to be a bad thing for them, as some of the opposition like the UAE was basically just touch rugby. With the exception of Hong Kong, all the A5N teams are just too easy and Japan became unaccustomed to the normal physicality they would face in the PNC, whilst the Tongans had been playing a better level in various leagues and were actually better prepared physically if not better prepared in terms of teamwork and set piece.

Eddie Jones echoed my thoughts there as well about perhaps playing opposition you can walk through doing more harm than good. It's hard for Eddie Jones to gauge the level of the players in A5N as they are all tend to look good and have literally no defensive work to do. A couple of the Japanese forwards got exposed at the higher level.

I think Japan need to start playing their U20 or A team or something in the A5N next year, the matches against UAE and Philippines do not prepare them well. Only Hong Kong is worth playing against as a practice run.

I'd add Korea to that too. Hong Kong was only so close, in my opinion, due to poor officiating. All their great backs were with the 7s team, so this year they had a different backline. Korea was much more dangerous with the ball. Hong Kong was solid defensively, and play a very structured game with very good set piece. But you are right, Japan are not getting enough out of it now...while the Philippines and UAE defend valiantly, they can't match fitness or set piece strength enough to challenge Japan. I'd argue that if the Philippines magically got a wicked strong (pr just a lot stronger) forward pack that their backs can compete with them.
 
I'd add Korea to that too. Hong Kong was only so close, in my opinion, due to poor officiating. All their great backs were with the 7s team, so this year they had a different backline. Korea was much more dangerous with the ball. Hong Kong was solid defensively, and play a very structured game with very good set piece. But you are right, Japan are not getting enough out of it now...while the Philippines and UAE defend valiantly, they can't match fitness or set piece strength enough to challenge Japan. I'd argue that if the Philippines magically got a wicked strong (pr just a lot stronger) forward pack that their backs can compete with them.

That's the point. There's no point playing matches against sides that you can just walk through as it clearly prepared them poorly for the physicality level of the PNC, they got used to carrying the ball high and whilst they walked through the UAE doing that (Kikutani got the easiest hat trick you will ever see) they got hit back and turned over by Tonga. Hong Kong aren't good by any means, and are still a 50 point win normally. But at least they can make them work a bit for the tries and spoil at the breakdown. Korea are a side that essentially plays touch rugby when it comes to defence.
 
It seems like a couple things need to happen:

-Japan needs to play an A team in the A5N. Maybe not call it an A team so that the sponsors still stay on.

-HK and SK need a team each in the Top League to help raise their standards. This is particularly important if the IRB decide to give Asia a 2nd team in the 2019 RWC in addition to Japan.
 
That's the point. There's no point playing matches against sides that you can just walk through as it clearly prepared them poorly for the physicality level of the PNC, they got used to carrying the ball high and whilst they walked through the UAE doing that (Kikutani got the easiest hat trick you will ever see) they got hit back and turned over by Tonga. Hong Kong aren't good by any means, and are still a 50 point win normally. But at least they can make them work a bit for the tries and spoil at the breakdown. Korea are a side that essentially plays touch rugby when it comes to defence.

I wouldn't go that far. They just aren't as aggressive in open play. Also, Korea has a better scrum than HK. I'll give HK the LO and set move advantage though, they score a lot of tries off well worked backs moves.
 
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