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Izzy Folau

The_Blindside said:
My post wasn't meant to bash Christianity or religion, just pertinent questions I've had. I even did an Alpha course in my early 20s. But Didn't stick to it. One of my very good friends at school and Uni is an evangelical Christian and had a number of chats with him. He's now a Christian Missionary and have upmost respect for him.

I mean there are things in life religion tries to answer ie what is the meaning of life. Of course each person's life will mean something different. What happens to our souls when we go - to a heaven? if we are good and believe in a God where there is no longer any suffering, disease, hunger and pain for eternity?

According to Christians only those who live their life through Jesus can get to heaven.

The rest of us who don't believe end up
In a fiery hell for eternity?

Or is there an in between? Limbo?

Or do our souls just get recycled into new life? Reincarnation. If you're bad you could end up as dung beetle or a seal whose destiny is to be eaten by a polar bear tearing off your skin whilst being eaten alive. Or if you're good recycled to another human life destined for riches and fame?

Personally I find the once you die you die explanation dissatisfying. Do fckers like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Savill and suicide Bombers get punished in the afterlife? As long as they repented?
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You have entirely missed the point of my work
 
I don't really want to get drawn into a debate with Welsh Exile about cherry picking etc but my personal philosphy in regards to the quandries above and the theological questions posed goes something like the below. My Chaplain at school was fantastic to talk to about those kind of theological quandries so it was something I got to wrestle with quite a lot.
Not Mike Brown's Sock said:
For me personally, that "living life through Jesus" doesn't neccessitate being a Christian - there are plenty of "Christians" that are awful people, even though they claim to "live their life through Jesus". For me, the adverse can also be true and is also legitimate, if you are a good person without being religious, that is just as OK in my eyes - for me, "living through Jesus" is more about the core principle of being a good person rather than about Jesus the individual himself.

I struggle with the idea of hell and fiery damnation - how can an all forgiving all loving god condemn someone to an eternity of suffering? My most satisfying answer to that is that when one dies, and upon witnessing the glory of god, one can do nothing but repent, literally no-one is perfect, and if a religious person tells you they are, then they're a liar. Christians, agnostics, atheists, the worst people to have ever walked the earth and @Welsh Exile alike ;) are left with no other option but to repent their sins and committ themselves to god.

Obviously that's my very personal philosophy, but is one that I spent a long time thinking and talking to my Chaplain about but that's my answers to some really difficult theological questions
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What was your Chaplain's view on hell when you had these conversations with him? What did he think of your idea of it (or lack of it)

A pretty common one I've seen amongst more liberal Christians is that hell is the absence of god. So oblivion basically. This is obviously more palatable than the idea that people are being tortured for eternity but it's still not very satisfying to me.
 
Welsh Exile said:
I don't really want to get drawn into a debate with Welsh Exile about cherry picking etc but my personal philosphy in regards to the quandries above and the theological questions posed goes something like the below. My Chaplain at school was fantastic to talk to about those kind of theological quandries so it was something I got to wrestle with quite a lot.

What was your Chaplain's view on hell when you had these conversations with him? What did he think of your idea of it (or lack of it)

A pretty common one I've seen amongst more liberal Christians is that hell is the absence of god. So oblivion basically. This is obviously more palatable than the idea that people are being tortured for eternity but it's still not very satisfying to me.
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Honestly I'm not sure - he didn't really give his personal view on it but obviously relayed the teachings of not only the different churches but just generally played devils advocate with it.

I think in his mind as long as one was actually thinking about it and being a good person that was the main thing tbh - which is basically the same view I hold now
 
Not Mike Brown's Sock said:
Honestly I'm not sure - he didn't really give his personal view on it but obviously relayed the teachings of not only the different churches but just generally played devils advocate with it.

I think in his mind as long as one was actually thinking about it and being a good person that was the main thing tbh - which is basically the same view I hold now
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Sounds like his heart isn't really in it.

Joking aside, it's good he wasn't saying hell is definitely a real place and you've got to do X, Y and Z to avoid going there as that's a pretty messed up thing to teach anyone, especially kids.
 
Dinosaurs are an interesting problem for Abrahamic religions.

I have seen people argue that the fossils of ancient creatures were placed there by God to 'test our faith', yet others claim they were on Noah's Ark but died out and highlight the terminology of 'dragons and behemoths' in the Old Testament as evident that they co-existed with humans.

I recently spoke to a friend who during childhood was part of pretty hardcore church which meant they were not allowed out on Sunday. They then stepped away from God and returned last year and claims to be a Born Again Christian. Their claim to me that everyone is destined for hell unless you are a Born Again Christian (now I don't fully understand what is the difference between any other Christian sect and a Born Again one, but they are in the Free Presbyterian clan.

Still can't get my head around the claim that Jews and Muslims won't go to heaven either because they don't accept Jesus. I mean Yahweh is Jesus and Jesus is Yahweh, and Jews and Muslims believe in Yahweh but not Jesus - seems unfair to me.

Then again the Abrahamic God is a bit confusing in general.
 
Gavin said:
Dinosaurs are an interesting problem for Abrahamic religions.

I have seen people argue that the fossils of ancient creatures were placed there by God to 'test our faith', yet others claim they were on Noah's Ark but died out and highlight the terminology of 'dragons and behemoths' in the Old Testament as evident that they co-existed with humans.

I recently spoke to a friend who during childhood was part of pretty hardcore church which meant they were not allowed out on Sunday. They then stepped away from God and returned last year and claims to be a Born Again Christian. Their claim to me that everyone is destined for hell unless you are a Born Again Christian (now I don't fully understand what is the difference between any other Christian sect and a Born Again one, but they are in the Free Presbyterian clan.

Still can't get my head around the claim that Jews and Muslims won't go to heaven either because they don't accept Jesus. I mean Yahweh is Jesus and Jesus is Yahweh, and Jews and Muslims believe in Yahweh but not Jesus - seems unfair to me.

Then again the Abrahamic God is a bit confusing in general.
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Heaven and hell is also interesting. On the one hand you have an eternity living with a deranged being that requires your full devotion and on the other you are in hell.
 
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Can't say I've thought much about heaven and hell, it seems so ridiculously implausible to me that God is real I haven't looked beyond its earthly effect before thinking that I was a teenager who didn't get caught up in theology.

The idea of it requiring a person to be of X faith or Y faith is far from benevolent and seems like God is forcing people into failure. Good luck to any Saudi woman if she needs to be part of some niche Christian church to get a ticket.

I respect anyone who has faith and doesn't act or feel superior to anyone on account of it but afterlife and an eternity of anything is where it's always lost me. I think I'm more comfortable ceasing to exist after a hopefully fulfilling few decades on earth.
 
All my friends are going to hell so i might as well join them, think that's a well known saying for a reason
 
I don't know who said it but someone said that they imagine life after death is exactly like life before they were born.

Im not sure I'd want to spend an eternity existing to be honest. Sounds like a bit of a ball ache after a while.
 
The Alpha Bro said:
an eternity of anything is where it's always lost me. I think I'm more comfortable ceasing to exist after a hopefully fulfilling few decades on earth.
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Welsh Exile said:
Im not sure I'd want to spend an eternity existing to be honest. Sounds like a bit of a ball ache after a while
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That's really weird to be honest:rolleyes: I would love to live forever or to be sure there's something after the death. How can people desire the opposite.. I don't understand it
 
Yulia said:
That's really weird to be honest:rolleyes: I would love to live forever or to be sure there's something after the death. How can people desire the opposite.. I don't understand it
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how many films are there where someone "blessed" with long or eternal life starts to regret it, longing for it to end, loads, i think its a pretty common idea
 
Finite existence gives you the ability to prioritise what you want do, set goals and time frames. With infinite time everything can be done tomorrow, eventually you will have done everything you can conceive to do or have wanted to have done.

Whilst I might want to live longer than my life expectancy and I'd want to be 'active' for the vast majority of it. Forever feels like there is nothing to live for in the short term.
 
ncurd said:
Finite existence gives you the ability to prioritise what you want do, set goals and time frames. With infinite time everything can be done tomorrow, eventually you will have done everything you can conceive to do or have wanted to have done.

Whilst I might want to live longer than my life expectancy and I'd want to be 'active' for the vast majority of it. Forever feels like there is nothing to live for in the short term.
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super weird tangent, someone reminded me i had downloaded the first season of the HIghlander TV series...super dated but i do enjoy the premise
 
Plus you've got to consider the fact that you could be on your own in the afterlife. What if your wife had anal sex once? Access denied (ohhh matron) off to hell she goes. What if your brother is gay? See ya later, no heaven for you.

Heaven is meant to be eternal bliss but I would be pretty miserable if I couldn't spend eternity with the people I love most. Worse than that, if not only you were separated from them but you knew that they were in hell. That would be torture so I'd imagine god would have to give you some kind of lobotomy so you wouldn't care anymore at which point you're not really you anymore just a pale copy. All in all sounds a bit ****.
 
Welsh Exile said:
Plus you've got to consider the fact that you could be on your own in the afterlife. What if your wife had anal sex once? Access denied (ohhh matron) off to hell she goes. What if your brother is gay? See ya later, no heaven for you.

Heaven is meant to be eternal bliss but I would be pretty miserable if I couldn't spend eternity with the people I love most. Worse than that, if not only you were separated from them but you knew that they were in hell. That would be torture so I'd imagine god would have to give you some kind of lobotomy so you wouldn't care anymore at which point you're not really you anymore just a pale copy. All in all sounds a bit ****.
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Chris Hitchens once described the idea of Christian heaven as a celestial North Korea
 
Without trying to get too spoilery "The Good Place" deals with a few of these concepts and explores (for comedy) what it might actually be like.
 

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