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Izzy Folau

Kiwiwomble said:
See but now your going too far the other way, people did that stuff because they wanted too, using the bible as an excuse doesn't shift the blame from those people the the bible or religion
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People didn't know any better centuries ago. It wasn't debatable. God existed, it was fsct and people were brainwashed to believe that everything in it was gods teachings/will.
 
Norse gods seems like a good option...al long as you die in battle...name derives from Mars though so might have to go for Greek
 
Welsh Exile said:
People didn't know any better centuries ago. It wasn't debatable. God existed, it was fsct and people were brainwashed to believe that everything in it was gods teachings/will.
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Lots knew...as they do now...don't absolve evil people of the crimes they committed
 
Kiwiwomble said:
Lots knew...as they do now...don't absolve evil people of the crimes they committed
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Really? I'm talking about people hundreds of years ago that had no knowledge of science and could only go on what their spiritual leader told them. Normally recite what was said in the bible (like lying with another man is a sin)
 
Welsh Exile said:
Really? I'm talking about people hundreds of years ago that had no knowledge of science and could only go on what their spiritual leader told them. Normally recite what was said in the bible (like lying with another man is a sin)
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Yes, who do you think was doing the brainwashing? And then is it the bible fault or those brainwashing?
 
Kiwiwomble said:
Yes, who do you think was doing the brainwashing? And then is it the bible fault or those brainwashing?
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Well it's both. It's not one or the other. The bible says it's a sin to be gay. Jesus never came out and said slavery was against gods will. There was no "thou shall not own another human being as property" commandment so if you're got that stuff written in a book and people of "status" are telling you that's gods word then what are you supposed to believe with no alternative?

Jesus, even Folau in the 21st century (to keep it on topic) says it is so it shows how strong this feeling is that is past down from generation to generation.
 
Welsh Exile said:
Well it's both. It's not one or the other. The bible says it's a sin to be gay. Jesus never came out and said slavery was against gods will. There was no "thou shall not own another human being as property" commandment so if you're got that stuff written in a book and people of "status" are telling you that's gods word then what are you supposed to believe with no alternative?

Jesus, even Folau in the 21st century (to keep it on topic) says it is so it shows how strong this feeling is that is past down from generation to generation.
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I think the wording is "a man may not lay with another man". So does that mean lesbianism is okay? If you say yes, then does that mean being gay as a sin is only applicable to men and not women?

But what you are missing is that even though many things are deemed as sin or sinful acts, you can still commit those sins and be religious, as you can be forgiven and you can repent.
 
TRF_heineken said:
I think the wording is "a man may not lay with another man". So does that mean lesbianism is okay? If you say yes, then does that mean being gay as a sin is only applicable to men and not women?

But what you are missing is that even though many things are deemed as sin or sinful acts, you can still commit those sins and be religious, as you can be forgiven and you can repent.
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I don't think the people who wrote the bible factored women into their thinking at all to be honest. They were 2nd class citizens. Still today believers like to persecute women for having the right to choose whether they have an abortion or not.

The 2nd bit is pretty much what Folau says isn't it? Gay people just need to stop being gay. Bit harsh seeing as god made them that way but there you go.
 
I never understood where dinosaurs figured in the Bible story. If the world is just 6,000 years old, how do you dodge the fossils dug up and can be carbon dated? Are they just an inconvenient truth?

Which parts of the Bible do we not take literally and which parts do we take literally? The resurrection of Jesus Christ surely from a Christianity POV or otherwise the very foundation of Christianity would fall down.
 
The_Blindside said:
I never understood where dinosaurs figured in the Bible story. If the world is just 6,000 years old, how do you dodge the fossils dug up and can be carbon dated? Are they just an inconvenient truth?

Which parts of the Bible do we not take literally and which parts do we take literally? The resurrection of Jesus Christ surely from a Christianity POV or otherwise the very foundation of Christianity would fall down.
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The_Blindside said:
I never understood where dinosaurs figured in the Bible story. If the world is just 6,000 years old, how do you dodge the fossils dug up and can be carbon dated? Are they just an inconvenient truth?

Which parts of the Bible do we not take literally and which parts do we take literally? The resurrection of Jesus Christ surely from a Christianity POV or otherwise the very foundation of Christianity would fall down.
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No, no.
True christians know which bits are truth and which bits to ignore. Oh, and that's not cherry-picking, it's... something else.
Of course, all the different sects of christianity have different bits that are true and different bits to ignore, but that's because those other sects (like Roman Catholicism, for example) aren't true christians. Oh, and that's not a "no true Scotsman" phallacy, it's... something else.
;)
 
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The_Blindside said:
I never understood where dinosaurs figured in the Bible story. If the world is just 6,000 years old, how do you dodge the fossils dug up and can be carbon dated? Are they just an inconvenient truth?
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I don't know if you're familiar, but the late, great Bill Hicks did some funny **** on this.
 
The_Blindside said:
I never understood where dinosaurs figured in the Bible story. If the world is just 6,000 years old, how do you dodge the fossils dug up and can be carbon dated? Are they just an inconvenient truth?

Which parts of the Bible do we not take literally and which parts do we take literally? The resurrection of Jesus Christ surely from a Christianity POV or otherwise the very foundation of Christianity would fall down.
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I'm sure there are some sects of Christianity that don't take the resurrection literally either. Of course there are some who take it all 100% literal. However theological study and what to take out of it is quite a heavy area of study for priests and whatnot.

Personally as an agnostic I treat it as another philosophical book of which there are good bits and bad bits. It shouldn't be used for entire ethical basis but it's a starting point especially considering in permunates itself through Western philosophy quite heavily.
 
My post wasn't meant to bash Christianity or religion, just pertinent questions I've had. I even did an Alpha course in my early 20s. But Didn't stick to it. One of my very good friends at school and Uni is an evangelical Christian and had a number of chats with him. He's now a Christian Missionary and have upmost respect for him.

I mean there are things in life religion tries to answer ie what is the meaning of life. Of course each person's life will mean something different. What happens to our souls when we go - to a heaven? if we are good and believe in a God where there is no longer any suffering, disease, hunger and pain for eternity?

According to Christians only those who live their life through Jesus can get to heaven.

The rest of us who don't believe end up
In a fiery hell for eternity?

Or is there an in between? Limbo?

Or do our souls just get recycled into new life? Reincarnation. If you're bad you could end up as dung beetle or a seal whose destiny is to be eaten by a polar bear tearing off your skin whilst being eaten alive. Or if you're good recycled to another human life destined for riches and fame?

Personally I find the once you die you die explanation dissatisfying. Do fckers like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Savill and suicide Bombers get punished in the afterlife? As long as they repented?
 
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The_Blindside said:
My post wasn't meant to bash Christianity or religion, just pertinent questions I've had. I even did an Alpha course in my early 20s. But Didn't stick to it. One of my very good friends at school and Uni is an evangelical Christian and had a number of chats with him. He's now a Christian Missionary and have upmost repeat for him.

I mean there are things in life religion tries to answer ie what is the meaning of life. Of course each person's life will mean something different. What happens to our souls when we go - to a heaven? if we are good and believe in a God where there is no longer any suffering, disease, hunger and pain for eternity?

According to Christians only those who live their life through Jesus can get to heaven.

The rest of us who don't believe end up
In a fiery hell for eternity?

Or is there an in between? Limbo?

Or do our souls just get recycled into new life? Reincarnation. If you're bad you could end up as dung beetle or a seal whose destiny is to be eaten by a polar bear tearing off your skin whilst being eaten alive. Or if you're good recycled to another human life destined for riches and fame?

Personally I find the once you die you die explanation dissatisfying. Do fckers like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Savill and suicide Bombers get punished in the afterlife? As long as they repented?
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I don't really want to get drawn into a debate with Welsh Exile about cherry picking etc but my personal philosphy in regards to the quandries above and the theological questions posed goes something like the below. My Chaplain at school was fantastic to talk to about those kind of theological quandries so it was something I got to wrestle with quite a lot.

For me personally, that "living life through Jesus" doesn't neccessitate being a Christian - there are plenty of "Christians" that are awful people, even though they claim to "live their life through Jesus". For me, the adverse can also be true and is also legitimate, if you are a good person without being religious, that is just as OK in my eyes - for me, "living through Jesus" is more about the core principle of being a good person rather than about Jesus the individual himself.

I struggle with the idea of hell and fiery damnation - how can an all forgiving all loving god condemn someone to an eternity of suffering? My most satisfying answer to that is that when one dies, and upon witnessing the glory of god, one can do nothing but repent, literally no-one is perfect, and if a religious person tells you they are, then they're a liar. Christians, agnostics, atheists, the worst people to have ever walked the earth and @Welsh Exile alike ;) are left with no other option but to repent their sins and committ themselves to god.

Obviously that's my very personal philosophy, but is one that I spent a long time thinking and talking to my Chaplain about but that's my answers to some really difficult theological questions
 
@The_Blindside I like how did a French writer Bernard Werber combine different religions in one religious line and tried to answer all those questions in his books. Can recommend you to read, it inspired me a lot many years ago :) especially following books: "We are Gods" (and all the Gods trilogy), "The Empire of the Angels" and "The Thanatonauts"
en.m.wikipedia.org

Bernard Werber - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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