Italy vs Ireland - 16/03/2013

[psychic duck]

If it hadn't been for the France game in his final year Mallett's stint with Italy would have been regarded as a complete failure, and rightly so. They stalled, and quite possibly regressed under him, yet no one seemed to care much as they were expected to be the poorest team. Now they're back heading in the right direction. Okay, they may have a few lean years when this crop of players hang up their boots, but they at least seem to have shaken off the mentality that they're going into a game having already lost it.

This should be a concern for Italy. Parisse, Castro, Zanni, Canale, Masi are all of a similar age and will retire at similar times. If you look closely at their side, the core of it has been together a long while now, right back from when John Kirwan was in charge.

Meanwhile, their junior side has lost to Georgia and Japan within the 12 months, and has been relegated to the secondary IRB Junior World Trophy after losing to the Pacific Islanders junior teams Samoa and Fiji as well.

And their fly half problems are over a decade old, Orquera is 31 now, and they seem to have given up actually producing a 10 of their own and are just flying in Argentine/Australian/South African rejects to be their 10 such as Burton, Orquera, Botes or di Bernardo. None of whom would challenge getting in any other Tier 1 sides B team.

 

[Peat]

Right now the only nailed on touring forward from Ireland is Healy. Best will probably go due to a lack of other options, but if he was trying to play his way off the plane he couldn't have done a better job. O'Brien will probably go, but its a heavily stocked position and he's done a fair few stupid things. They should be the only three. I'm incredulous that Ryan's name is mentioned for the gig at all, he's pretty much as culpable for the lineout failures as Best and has done little around the park.

But then, I feel its hard lines for a lot of them, as in a better coached outfit maybe it would have happened. Or maybe with less injuries. But that was such a lame duck ending I'm not sure that would have helped.

Still - to end on a positive note - I feel Gilroy's answered a lot of questions about his defence this tournament.

 

[Amiga500]

The best thing about yesterday's result is it definitely means the IRFU cannot give DeClown a new contract.

1. I'll apologise to Conor Murray for my criticism last week, Paddy Jackson is not international class, too deep, not a good passer of the ball, awful at finding touch off penalties, his players don't trust him and won't allow him to take the ball at 1st receiver and suspect in defence.

Thing that gets me here is - against Scotland (and Fiji last year) he was right to the line. Why now was he a Radge-esque 15 yards off it? Instructions?

 

[Big Ewis]

England the last team Italy's never beaten (6N or other for that matter...): next year, in Rome. England succumbs, I'll say it again. 2014 is the year.

 

[lynam1104]

The only reason I wanted to see Ireland win that in the second half is BOD, it such a sad way for him to bow out of the 6N.

 

[madflyhalf]

I just want to say only one word:

Zanni



Enough.

 

[Big Ewis]

The only reason I wanted to see Ireland win that in the second half is BOD, it such a sad way for him to bow out of the 6N.

yeh but LoCicero's last, and with his tears and int'l career end, it was sweet that it should be a historical day for the Squadra Azzura.

 

[lynam1104]

Yea good for him to go on high had a very good game to.

 

[big ginger 8]

At least the womens team are Grand Slam champions. Well done to them.

 

[Big Ewis]

Yea good for him to go on high had a very good game to.

he had that nice little run in traffic where he broke through a tackle or two...could have led to smt nice, really would've been amazingly symbolic for his last match...

 

[munstermuffin]

Rumours are that BOD enjoyed a good send off last night.

 

[Jbobo]

At least the womens team are Grand Slam champions. Well done to them.

The Rugby world's conspiracy to keep Kidney in Irish rugby after he's sacked will stem that flow nicely





Congrats to the Irish womens though!

 

[Big Ewis]

At least the womens team are Grand Slam champions. Well done to them.

yeh...France Scotland 76-0, seems like a very competitive tournament...-200 for Scotland in the points ! :lol:

 

[munstermuffin]

I think Kidney will resign as he knows gig is up. Rumours are Les Kiss is favourite and that worries me. As in I not been biased but only man that has came out of Ireland's coaching team with credit is Axel. And I think if Kiss was given the gig then it a continuity of Kidneys reign.
Rumours are Gatland doesn't want Schmidt on Lions ticket incase he's exposed to New Zealand public and a contender for kiwi job which Gatland wants when it comes. If Joe got this it'd be serious intent from IRFU. Get him and Cotter again or even Foley/Schmidt ticket.

 

[Amiga500]

As in I not been biased but only man that has came out of Ireland's coaching team with credit is Axel.

Is Axel solely defence coach, or does he also coach the forwards in general?

 

[munstermuffin]

Solely defense for Ireland.

 

[Ainsthrilln]

This should be a concern for Italy. Parisse, Castro, Zanni, Canale, Masi are all of a similar age and will retire at similar times. If you look closely at their side, the core of it has been together a long while now, right back from when John Kirwan was in charge.

Meanwhile, their junior side has lost to Georgia and Japan within the 12 months, and has been relegated to the secondary IRB Junior World Trophy after losing to the Pacific Islanders junior teams Samoa and Fiji as well.

And their fly half problems are over a decade old, Orquera is 31 now, and they seem to have given up actually producing a 10 of their own and are just flying in Argentine/Australian/South African rejects to be their 10 such as Burton, Orquera, Botes or di Bernardo. None of whom would challenge getting in any other Tier 1 sides B team.

It´s true, but last weekend Italy´s u20 tied with Ireland´s team... 25-25 with four tries to three. Actually, their results in this u20 6 Nations are not as bad, and similar to the french results...

Italy U20s 6 - 13 France U20s
Scotland U20s 30 - 17 Italy U20s
France U20s 13 - 27 Wales U20s
Italy U20s 10 - 25 Wales U20s
England U20s 40 - 10 France U20s
Ireland U20s 22 - 5 France U20s
England U20s 52 - 7 Italy U20s
Italy U20s 25 - 25 Ireland U20s
France U20s 13 - 10 Scotland U20s

Does it mean France need to worry about their future? Of course not. The results of a generation alone are not really important, either they´re bad as you say or quite good (for Italy) as last u20 6 Nations.

You´re right about the end of the retirement of the backbone of the team... But the same could be said about a lot of players and Italy kept improving. Think about the last time you saw Mauro Bergamasco, Marco Bortolami, Mirco Bergamasco, Perugini, Ongaro, Festuccia, Agüero, Del Fava, Dellape, Sole... In fact, from the great forwards pack who won two games in the 2007 6N, Castrogiovanni (31), Parisse (29) and Ghiraldini (28) are the last survivors, as Lo Cicero is retired now. Since then, Cittadini, Barbieri, Favaro, Pavanello, Minto, Geldenhuys... had been added to the team, and the pack is consistent. But it´s true Parisse can´t be replaced, even if Barbieri is in great form and Mbanda looks good.

The change in the backs has been the same, or better, and I´m sure Italy has now the best backs they have had in a lot of time And most of them are youngs... Think on Gori, Venditti, Benvenuti, McLean, Sgarbi... Canale is not as important now, he played 5 minutes against France (Castro didn´t play against Ireland either). The centers in the victory against France and the good matches in November were Benvenuti and Sgarbi. Masi is still crucial, but McLean has played well as fullback.

And there are some good prospects, as Angelo Esposito (fullback/wing), Morisi (center), Campagnaro (center), Iannone (wing)...

Fly half is a black hole, it´s true. But it has been the same since the retirement of Domínguez, so italian rugby is used to . It´s not true either they have given up to produce a fly half. Actually you have to be italian or be able to play for Italy in order to play as fly half in the italian league, and now there´s a program to try to develop some fly halfs from utility backs as Paolo Buso, but I don´t see much future there...

In the u20s Padovani has been the 10 for ages, but it´s very similar to Orquera, but even worse kicker, so it´s not going to be easy for him to reach the NT.

 

[Big Ewis]

wow, we suck at the U20 too ?!!! wtf !!! Our chicks are good though apparently...but who the fk cares ?

 

[munstermuffin]

Italy's big problem has always been that they die away in last 20 and lack of a international class goal kicker but they really seem to be correcting these issues and they are making giant strides

 

[psychic duck]

It´s true, but last weekend Italy´s u20 tied with Ireland´s team... 25-25 with four tries to three. Actually, their results in this u20 6 Nations are not as bad, and similar to the french results

Does it mean France need to worry about their future? Of course not. The results of a generation alone are not really important, either they´re bad as you say or quite good (for Italy) as last u20 6 Nations.

Drawing with Ireland is a good result, however looking at the wider picture of results though. Italy's U20 side got relegated out of the Junior World Cup and will be playing in the JWRT alongside the likes of Portugal, Chile, Canada, Tonga and Japan this year. They also have lost to Georgia and Japan within the past year at junior level. That would never happen to France.

You´re right about the end of the retirement of the backbone of the team... But the same could be said about a lot of players and Italy kept improving. Think about the last time you saw Mauro Bergamasco, Marco Bortolami, Mirco Bergamasco, Perugini, Ongaro, Festuccia, Agüero, Del Fava, Dellape, Sole... In fact, from the great forwards pack who won two games in the 2007 6N, Castrogiovanni (31), Parisse (29) and Ghiraldini (28) are the last survivors, as Lo Cicero is retired now. Since then, Cittadini, Barbieri, Favaro, Pavanello, Minto, Geldenhuys... had been added to the team, and the pack is consistent. But it´s true Parisse can´t be replaced, even if Barbieri is in great form and Mbanda looks good.

Look at the ages of this list of new players you name though. Cittadini is 30, Barbieri is 28, Pavanello is 30, Geldenhuys is 31. Not going to be around for much longer than 5 years. No offence, but Italy really hasn't produced a noteworthy forward who is younger than 24.

Favaro is the only decent young forward Italy have produced since RWC 2007, and even he's not good enough to carry a team.

Unless they rectify this. They could decline when the Parisse/Castro generation of forwards retire.

The change in the backs has been the same, or better, and I´m sure Italy has now the best backs they have had in a lot of time And most of them are youngs... Think on Gori, Venditti, Benvenuti, McLean, Sgarbi... Canale is not as important now, he played 5 minutes against France (Castro didn´t play against Ireland either). The centers in the victory against France and the good matches in November were Benvenuti and Sgarbi. Masi is still crucial, but McLean has played well as fullback.

Yes, the backs have played much better this year than some other years. And also they have found younger players such as Benvenuti and Venditti who will be there for 10 years. Havong said that though, I wouldn't say any of their backs would really challenge to get in the big 4 of the 6 Nations teams, but they are more competent than before.