Italy v England

[Bullitt]

How is abuse to say Italy are pretty **** right now, in fact worse then they have been for a long time?

We all know all about the Azurri (much like the Tifosi in F1) and like them for it. Similar in fact to how we all like the Argentinian fans and what they bring.

It's hardly being abusive to state the fact their national team are playing crap however.

 

[Olyy]

Fluteys back to full training now/is available for Italy,
Apparently Borthwicks missing training/the press related stuff due to illness though.
Could mean a Shaw/Lawes partnership for the Italy match (though more likely to be Shaw/Deacon, knowing Martin Johnson)

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bullitt @ Feb 9 2010, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

How is abuse to say Italy are pretty **** right now, in fact worse then they have been for a long time?

We all know all about the Azurri (much like the Tifosi in F1) and like them for it. Similar in fact to how we all like the Argentinian fans and what they bring.

It's hardly being abusive to state the fact their national team are playing crap however.[/b]

what he said. They're a great part of the 6N, but they're also ****.

 

[morrissey34]

I think we should respect Italy.Even they're the poorest team in 6N,their front row is better than our's,specially playing with Payne and Wilson.So,playing in Rome,we'd be not scary,but...

 

[Prestwick]

I think we should respect Italy but it would be incredibly patronising towards the Italians if we said "no..NO! You were...er...great last week! Had the Irish just where you wanted them, eh? Could have put five tries past them."

Yes, saying they're utterly **** is very disrespectful and probably a bit rude but probably saying that they're playing to a very poor standard is bang on.

 

[Gavin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 10 2010, 04:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think we should respect Italy but it would be incredibly patronising towards the Italians if we said "no..NO! You were...er...great last week! Had the Irish just where you wanted them, eh? Could have put five tries past them."

Yes, saying they're utterly **** is very disrespectful and probably a bit rude but probably saying that they're playing to a very poor standard is bang on.[/b]

Exactly....

 

[Thingimubob]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 9 2010, 04:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

For once, I'm going to have to agree wholeheartedly with Bullitt. Italy 1) have never beaten England, 2) have never looked like beating England, and 3) have never looked quite as **** and boring as they did last weekend.

If they do win, I will be eating a lot of humble pie, and it will be entirely the fault of Martin Johnson and the England team, and nothing to do with how well Italy played.[/b]

Werent they screwed out of a win by a dodgy English try sometime during the 90's? Remember reading somewhere that they were?

 

[mohamed_ali12]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Fit-again centre Riki Flutey is set to return to the England side for Sunday's RBS Six Nations match against Italy.

Flutey was forced to withdraw from the team to face Wales last Saturday after picking up a thigh injury in training.

His return to fitness means Toby Flood, who replaced him at Twickenham, could drop to the bench for the game in Rome.

Captain Steve Borthwick missed training on Tuesday because of illness but should resume on Wednesday, when Martin Johnson will confirm his starting side.

Johnson has already released nine players from the elite squad to play for their clubs in the Guinness Premiership.

Bath centre Shontayne Hape, who was called onto the bench against Wales but then forced to withdraw on the morning of the match, is fit again but is one of those released.

The other backs are wings Matt Banahan (Bath) and Chris Ashton (Northampton), Leicester centre Dan Hipkiss - a replacement against Wales after the injury to Flutey and Hape's late withdrawal - and Tigers scrum-half Ben Youngs.

Also returning to their clubs are Bath hooker Lee Mears, Northampton lock Courtney Lawes, plus number eights Jordan Crane (Leicester) and Dan Ward-Smith (Wasps).


It is going to take every bit of our dog, heart and enthusiasm to get a result

England flanker Lewis Moody

Aside from Flutey's expected return, Johnson is likely to keep changes to a minimum after the opening 30-17 victory against Wales.

Leicester prop Dan Cole, who came on for his Test debut against Wales, could come into contention for a starting spot in Rome.

Tight-head David Wilson struggled at times against Wales in the scrum, traditionally an area of Italian strength.

England flanker Lewis Moody believes England will need to match the Azzurri's abrasiveness if they are to achieve the desired result in Rome and make it two wins out of two.

"In terms of physicality Italy are right up there as one of the best teams in the world. That is what their game is about," said Moody, who is set to win his 58th cap on Sunday.

"Like Scotland, when they are at home they have an ability to pick themselves up by 50%.

"It is going to take every bit of our dog, heart and enthusiasm to get a result in Rome."[/b]

Probable team of:

Payne
Hartley
Cole
Shaw
Borthwick
Haskell
Moody
Easter
Care
Wilkinson
Monye
Flutey
Tait
Cueto
Armitage

Thompson
Wilson
Deacon
Armitage
Hodgson
Flood
Foden

 

[Olyy]

I have a feeling Foden may start this one,
Though Johnson seems to have an aversion to him

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Feb 9 2010, 09:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I have a feeling Foden may start this one,
Though Johnson seems to have an aversion to him[/b]

I'm a big fan of Armitage and would give him another chance against Italy, but he can have no complaints if he is dropped after a shocker on Saturday.

 

[Olyy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 9 2010, 09:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Feb 9 2010, 09:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have a feeling Foden may start this one,
Though Johnson seems to have an aversion to him[/b]

I'm a big fan of Armitage and would give him another chance against Italy, but he can have no complaints if he is dropped after a shocker on Saturday.
[/b][/quote]
I reckon Foden should get at least a run out as he was performing better than Armitage in the GP/HEC, and Armitage didn't dazzle against Wales. Hopefully, if he's not starting, he'll at least see some game time. Must be frustrating to be the only sub not used, like on Saturday

 

[shtove]

Don't know about Italy - they have had their chances, but maybe last week against Ireland they were up against a complex team.

Are England complex? Not yet. Johnson will take them places, and they showed they were ruthless with 17 points against 14 man Wales. Then they died, but returned to life with luck and character.

Big test for England. Go Italia!

 

[Olyy]

Starting XV (subs bench hasn't been named yet)

15 Delon Armitage London Irish
14 Mark Cueto Sale Sharks
13 Matthew Tait Sale Sharks
12 Riki Flutey Brive
11 Ugo Monye Harlequins
10 Jonny Wilkinson Toulon
9 Danny Care Harlequins

1 Tim Payne London Wasps
2 Dylan Hartley Northampton
3 Dan Cole Leicester Tigers
4 Simon Shaw London Wasps
5 Steve Borthwick © Saracens
6 James Haskell Stade Francais
7 Lewis Moody Leicester Tigers
8 Nick Easter Harlequins


Cole and Flutey in, which is as expected really.
Would've liked Foden to start at 15, Flood at 10 and Payne not to be there, but consistency is good for the team, so no real complaints (Payne being the main one)
I think Ashton/Hape will both get game time in this match (providing they'll be on the bench, which they probably will). Foden'll be on the bench as well, i reckon, but won't get a look in again

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Olyy @ Feb 10 2010, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Starting XV (subs bench hasn't been named yet)

15 Delon Armitage London Irish
14 Mark Cueto Sale Sharks
13 Matthew Tait Sale Sharks
12 Riki Flutey Brive
11 Ugo Monye Harlequins
10 Jonny Wilkinson Toulon
9 Danny Care Harlequins

1 Tim Payne London Wasps
2 Dylan Hartley Northampton
3 Dan Cole Leicester Tigers
4 Simon Shaw London Wasps
5 Steve Borthwick © Saracens
6 James Haskell Stade Francais
7 Lewis Moody Leicester Tigers
8 Nick Easter Harlequins


Cole and Flutey in, which is as expected really.
Would've liked Foden to start at 15, Flood at 10 and Payne not to be there, but consistency is good for the team, so no real complaints (Payne being the main one)
I think Ashton/Hape will both get game time in this match (providing they'll be on the bench, which they probably will). Foden'll be on the bench as well, i reckon, but won't get a look in again[/b]

Don't think Hape will get anywhere near the bench. If you assume Flood has to play 21 because he's 10 cover, then there's only one spot to be contested between Foden and Ashton, who I would love to see given a run out at wing/ fullback for at least half an hour.

All in all, I could have put money on Johnson picking this team. And besides Payne, it's a good team. Foden can consider himself very unfortunate not to be selected, but as I keep saying, an in-form Armitage is about as good as you can get for a 15 at this level without them being a Latham/ Cullen superstar. If he can work his way back to form then I think he's a better option. With Foden breathing down his neck so hard, he'll have to be absolutely flawless on Sunday - and he'll get plenty of practice with high balls seeing as Italy don't do anything other than box-kick.

 

[DItaly]

Italy's 24 man squad... team named tomorrow

Props: Aguero (Saracens, 13 apps.), Castrogiovanni (Leicester, 63), Cittadini (Treviso, 1), Perugini (Bayonne, 67)
Hooker: Ghiraldini (Treviso, 25), Ongaro (Saracens, 65)
Locks: Bernabo (Rugby Roma, 13), Bortolami (Gloucester, 78), Geldenhuys (Viadana, 7)
Flanker/No.8: Ma. Bergmasco (Stade Francais, 80), Derbyshire (Padova, 1), Sole (Viadana, 42), Zanni (Treviso, 38)
Scrum Half: Canavosio (Viadana, 26), Tebaldi (Gran Parma, 7)
Fly Half: Bocchino (Rovigo, 1), Gower (Bayonne, 7)
Centre: Canale (Clermont-Auvergne, 52), Garcia (Treviso, 14), Masi (Racing Metro Paris, 47)
Wing: Mi. Bergamasco (Stade Francais, 67), Robertson (Viadana, 42)
Full-Back: McLean (Treviso, 15), Sgarbi (Treviso, 5)

 

[DItaly]

I should have said the team is named on friday.

 

[gingergenius]

England Replacements named: 16-Steve Thompson, 17-David Wilson, 18-Matthew Mullan, 19-Louis Deacon, 20-Steffon Armitage, 21-Paul Hodgson, 22-Toby Flood.

FOR f***ING HELL'S SAKE.

5 forwards? 5? Including Deacon? WHYWHYWHYWHY

Of all games, Italy is the best for gaining experience. So...

1. Deacon has been proven to be **** and innefective. Courtney Lawes is a guy everyone knows has the talent and hunger to make it. ???
2. In Chris Ashton and Ben Foden, we have 2 exciting back 3 players who are in great form in the GP. So where is the sense in picking neither on the bench, for the sake of an extra forward? Grrr.

This, more than anything, highlights the media-forced lack of balls that has stifled England since Woodward left.

Johnson is well aware that Payne is crap, but because there are no looseheads in the country who've been capped, he feels like he cannot drop him. But he also wants to find a replacement, and Mullan is the one with his hand up. So he's put Mullan on the bench. Fair enough. But because Mullan is so inexperienced, and cannot play tighthead, Johnson's stuck Wilson in there 'just in case'.

Which is a pussy decision. Next, there's Deacon being preferred to Lawes, because Deacon has more experience. Although with Shaw and Borthwick there, against ITALY, I don't really see where experience and stability off the bench is ever going to be needed.

Picking Wilson on the bench has meant he's not going to be able to experiment with Ashton or Foden in the backline. Which is what the Italy game would be perfect for. Because what's going to happen if, say, Armitage is forced out of the Ireland game? Johnson will see Ben Foden as next in queue, and he'll see 'risk' all over it. So he'll pussy out and pick Cueto at 15.

England have just as much depth as France, and just as much talent. England's approach to selection in recent years has been bone-headedly conservative. France's has been the opposite. Now I'm not advocating tinkering to the Lievremont extreme, but the point needs to be made - France are relatively settled now and beat the ABs away and Springboks, and they are favourites for this 6N. England can't even beat Australia and are predicted a mid-table 6N finish.

 

[DItaly]

15 Luke MCLEAN (Benetton Treviso, 15 caps)
14 Andrea MASI (Racing-Metro Paris, 47 caps)
13 Gonzalo CANALE (Clermont Auvergne, 52 caps)
12 Gonzalo GARCIA (Benetton Treviso, 14 caps)
11 Mirco BERGAMASCO (Stade Francais, 67 caps)
10 Craig GOWER (Bayonne, 7 caps)
9 ***o TEBALDI (Plusvalore Gran Parma, 7 caps)
8 Alessandro ZANNI (Benetton Treviso, 38 caps)
7 Mauro BERGAMASCO (Stade Francais, 80 caps)
6 Josh SOLE (MPS Viadana, 42 caps)
5 Marco BORTOLAMI (Gloucester RFC, 78 caps)
4 Quintin GELDENHUYS (MPS Viadana, 7 caps)
3 Martin CASTROGIOVANNI (Leicester Tigers, 63 caps)
2 Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Benetton Treviso, 25 caps) - capitano
1 Salvatore PERUGINI (Bayonne, 67 caps)

a disposizione
16 Fabio ONGARO (Saracens, 65 caps)
17 Matias AGUERO (Saracens, 13 caps)
18 Valerio BERNABO’ (Futura Park Rugby Roma, 13 caps)
19 Paul DERBYSHIRE (Petrarca Padova, 1 cap)
20 Pablo CANAVOSIO (MPS Viadana, 26 caps)
21 Riccardo BOCCHINO (Femi-CZ Rovigo, 1 cap)*
22 Kaine ROBERTSON (MPS Viadana, 42 caps)

 

[morrissey34]

I agree in all that you've said gingergenius.Martin should start with Mullan this match,Payne hasn't future.I think Shaw is a world class,but Lawes needs playing time,he is the future.desn't matter in the back row or instead of Shaw.I shouldn't change the back row,and Martin isn't gonna dropp off Borthwick,so Shaw would be the victim.And what about Foden and Ashton?Pherhaps for the 2015's championship?

 

[Olyy]

Someone should slap Johnson.
What's he got against Saints players? PLAY LAWES AND FODEN for Gods sake, they're both great players, get named in the Squad, then sit on the bench/don't see game time ever,
Then you get crappy players like Deacon getting in there week in week out