Is Warren Gatland Simply a Lucky Coach?

[mania]

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GATLAND for Primeminister!!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

sorry i'm giving an opinion. i didnt realise you wanted someone to agree with you. i dont do sycophant. if u dont like others view take a long walk off a short pier. i'm sorry you dont agree gatlands a great coach. obviously drawing the series vs the best team in the world isnt good enough for you? who cares.

and thank you for agreeing "Gatland did the job" thats all that matters.

but hey enjoy your "if only" moments. if only eJones or schmidt were coaching we wouldve won. if only suartLancaster did better we'd be world cup champs. if only blah blah blah

the what ifs dont matter. gatlands an awesome coach
get over it, its only rugby. u need a life and take a chill pill

Ooh just am opinion is it? Funny, you were saying it was a fact earlier. This is a public forum, if you don't want to hear disagreement then you should walk off a pier.

I'm at least capable of basic logic, you are talking like a child

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

sorry i'm giving an opinion. i didnt realise you wanted someone to agree with you. i dont do sycophant. if u dont like others view take a long walk off a short pier. i'm sorry you dont agree gatlands a great coach. obviously drawing the series vs the best team in the world isnt good enough for you? who cares.

and thank you for agreeing "Gatland did the job" thats all that matters.

but hey enjoy your "if only" moments. if only eJones or schmidt were coaching we wouldve won. if only suartLancaster did better we'd be world cup champs. if only blah blah blah

the what ifs dont matter. gatlands an awesome coach
get over it, its only rugby. u need a life and take a chill pill

What's your opinion on the players stating they threw Gatland's game plan out the window to win the 2nd test?

 

[munstermuffin]

No sorry I disagree
i didnt initially bring up schmidt and eJones. i was replying to that.
i said gatland was a great coach and then it was replied that eJones or schmidt wouldve done better., so i'm replying to those that say without proof that eJones and schmidtwouldve done a better job.

thats BS

Can I ask where is the proof they wouldn't have done a better job?

Proof is built on experiences in other roles in uniting a Squad, Results, Squad Management, Experience and Style.

I think on criteria:
Results Vs SH Teams - Jones and Schmidt were more equipped
Success and Knowing How to break NZ down - Jones and Schmidt were more equipped
On Squad unity - Gatland is up there with them and many could argue better but the others are successful there too.
Squad Management - After the Geography 6 issue and past issues I think it's easy say the other 2 are better. And he struggled to isolate him from Wales issues.
Style - Well that's an open ended answer for all 3
Experience - It could be argued Jones has the better experience of Southern Hemisphere and playing New Zealand. Also has the broader knowledge having managed in more countries.

Lastly Nathan Hines said recently - Was the overall coaching staff a bit too Welsh and underwhelmed as many ruled themselves out and a few did so as they didn't want to work with Gatland.

 

[General Melchett]

One of the biggest gaffs Gatland made was making his mate Howley head attack coach. This effectively ensured there would be no Scots on the coaching team as Townsend and O'Halloran understandably turned down the chance to assist Howley, with a bit of pressure from the SRU. With no Scottish voice on the coaching team this effectively alienated the Scots (both players and fans), apart from guys like Hogg and Seymour who he had to pick as there were no viable Welsh alternatives. His responsibility was to galvanise the four nations in the spirit of the Lions ethos and he failed spectactulalry all because he gave his mate Howler the gig.

 

[MikeTheNative]

One of the biggest gaffs Gatland made was making his mate Howley head attack coach. This effectively ensured there would be no Scots on the coaching team as Townsend and O'Halloran understandably turned down the chance to assist Howley, with a bit of pressure from the SRU. With no Scottish voice on the coaching team this effectively alienated the Scots (both players and fans), apart from guys like Hogg and Seymour who he had to pick as there were no viable Welsh alternatives. His responsibility was to galvanise the four nations in the spirit of the Lions ethos and he failed spectactulalry all because he gave his mate Howler the gig.

Wasn't Townsend offered it first but turned the job down?

 

[Which Tyler]

Wasn't Townsend offered it first but turned the job down?

From memory - Townsend was offered the job of being Howley's assistant; which he turned down

 

[munstermuffin]

Wasn't Townsend offered it first but turned the job down?

Nope. Howley was 1st man on list of any coaches. Townsend was offered a role to assist Howley and be over midweek attack during tests. He turned it down saying he'd be better served leading a team he will be with and his input will be important over assisting another backs coach.

 

[General Melchett]

This is why I think each of the four nations must have representation on the coaching team otherwise it just turns into an old boys club and risks alienating individual nations. The correct call for Gatland in this case would have been to offer head attack coach to Townsend and offer Howley the chance to either lead Wales again or assist Townsend but he totally messed it up all because he was looking after his mate. He then had the audacity to sit in front of a camera and imply that the Scots chose not to be involved.

 

[profitius]

No tries when the aforementioned bosh merchant (Do you know Jamie Roberts?) and his mercurial 10 go off injured... D-, must try harder...

Criticising Schmidt for lack of imagination while praising Gatland is trolling, end of. Did Joe sleep with your missus?

My problem with Schmidt can be summed up in the last month. The Lions played better rugby against NZ in the wet than Ireland did in dry conditions against Japan despite Gatland only having the Lions for a few weeks.

I'm not saying Schmidt is a bad coach but the worshipping of him from the Irish media as thee undisputed greatest coach in the world is nauseating.

 

[munstermuffin]

My problem with Schmidt can be summed up in the last month. The Lions played better rugby against NZ in the wet than Ireland did in dry conditions against Japan despite Gatland only having the Lions for a few weeks.

I'm not saying Schmidt is a bad coach but the worshipping of him from the Irish media as thee undisputed greatest coach in the world is nauseating.

Profitius in the 1st test vs Japan they played great stuff. I do agree as I stated earlier Schmidt is a slow burner of a coach. But he had Leinster playing amazing to be fair. With Ireland I do agree his tactics are awful to watch but being fair I think he is realizing the need to put more width and creation in the plan and is implenting it slowly. But he is adaptable. On Worlds Greatest Coach - To me I never say he's greatest as it's never accurate to judge. Eg would Conor O'Shea be better than Hansen in charge of New Zealand? Would Hansen be better than O'Shea at Italy etc.

 

[valley commando]

sorry i'm giving an opinion. i didnt realise you wanted someone to agree with you. i dont do sycophant. if u dont like others view take a long walk off a short pier. i'm sorry you dont agree gatlands a great coach. obviously drawing the series vs the best team in the world isnt good enough for you? who cares.

and thank you for agreeing "Gatland did the job" thats all that matters.

but hey enjoy your "if only" moments. if only eJones or schmidt were coaching we wouldve won. if only suartLancaster did better we'd be world cup champs. if only blah blah blah

the what ifs dont matter. gatlands an awesome coach
get over it, its only rugby. u need a life and take a chill pill

Excellent post

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

And the obligatory VC downvoting everything that is negative about Saint Gats and his disciples.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Excellent post

Is it though? How re we defining "doing the job"? If it means simply being head coach, I could have done the job (thinking about it, I'd have rather enjoyed it), it wouldn't serve as proof that I'm an awesome coach though.

Clearly if onlys don't prove anything and are a matter of opinion, but the same goes for results oriented thinking. All it tells us is what we already know - what happened. It does nothing to demonstrate that better results wouldn't have been achieved with a different approach.

It's probably more difficult to prove that he is good than to throw stones at him, but the statistical comparisons are irrefutable and must hold some weight. The widely agreed upon and fairly numerous criticisms must too unless you're someone who believes that it's everyone else who's marching to the wrong beat. I've seen little if anything on this thread to refute either constructively, just people who appear to have an agenda getting hot under the collar.

FWIW, this is a topic that has long fascinated me (the wider picture, not just restricted to Gatland) and struck me as one of the most difficult things in sport to make an objective decision on.

 

[RedruthRFC]

And the obligatory VC downvoting everything that is negative about Saint Gats and his disciples.

Check! Now bracing for one more.

Have an up vote by the way!

 

[Ozzay]

Nope. Howley was 1st man on list of any coaches. Townsend was offered a role to assist Howley and be over midweek attack during tests. He turned it down saying he'd be better served leading a team he will be with and his input will be important over assisting another backs coach.

I didn't realise this, I read that he offered it to Townsend who turned it down, then to the Glasgow attack coach who also turned it down so went with Howley. That's awful

 

[General Melchett]

And the obligatory VC downvoting everything that is negative about Saint Gats and his disciples.

All my dislikes are from that deluded troll. There should be a child membership option which only allows members who are 18 and over to issue likes and dislikes.

 

[General Melchett]

I didn't realise this, I read that he offered it to Townsend who turned it down, then to the Glasgow attack coach who also turned it down so went with Howley. That's awful

Jason O'Halloran was the Scotland attack coach at the time and he had the Scottish backs playing some really great stuff at the 6N. It's the mother of all insults that especially Townsend, who at the time was the Scotland head coach in waiting, was merely offered the chance to assist Howler. It's like asking Eddie Jones to assist Rowntree. Well done Gatland.

 

[munstermuffin]

All my dislikes are from that deluded troll. There should be a child membership option which only allows members who are 18 and over to issue likes and dislikes.

Ye do know Valley is a dedicated troll. If you get a dislike from him it's like you're making a valid point.

 

[munstermuffin]

I didn't realise this, I read that he offered it to Townsend who turned it down, then to the Glasgow attack coach who also turned it down so went with Howley. That's awful

Nope was offered a role similar to Rowntree. Didn't even know anyone else was offered it. But Townsend in my eyes is the best attack coach around and is evident in his Glasgow transformation