Is Gatland Risking his Credibility by Keeping Warburton?

[big ginger 8]

Really?
Shouldn't have gone at all then =/

One rule for the English I guess

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Like SO'B it was one where he would have played if there wasn't a Lions tour apparently.

 

[Feicarsinn]

But he did pick up his injury after the squad announcement.

SOB also travelled injured, but he's returned to fitness a little quicker.

I feel that some are looking for double standards, where there are none.

I think you have to understand members of every other nation concerned could have very suspicious views of what Gatland is doing. And to be fair, he's earned that somewhat. Wales have the largest contingent, the captain (who should be far from secure in his place based on Justin Tipuric's form), the squad did its line out practice against Wales and an under 20's Wales prop was called up when they were a bit short. The first two you can explain with Wales as grand slam champions, but it's hard to say that this isn't turning into a very Welsh tour.

Were I in Gatland's shoes I'd be going about things in pretty much the exact opposite way. As they're going to be a natural disposition towards seeing pro Welsh bias you'd think he'd look to spread things round a bit more.

 

[Draggs]

I think you have to understand members of every other nation concerned could have very suspicious views of what Gatland is doing. And to be fair, he's earned that somewhat. Wales have the largest contingent, the captain (who should be far from secure in his place based on Justin Tipuric's form), the squad did its line out practice against Wales and an under 20's Wales prop was called up when they were a bit short. The first two you can explain with Wales as grand slam champions, but it's hard to say that this isn't turning into a very Welsh tour.

The U20 prop was called up because training was in Wales. O'Connell was a weak link in 2009 but started, using AWJ as the sacrifice. Gatland is giving Kearney time to recover, as well.

 

[psychic duck]

the squad did its line out practice against Wales and an under 20's Wales prop was called up when they were a bit short.

The entire Wales squad to Japan trained with the Lions not just lineout practice or an U20 prop. The Wales backline was "put to the sword" by the Lions one according to Gatland. http://www.espn.co.uk/lions-tour-2013/rugby/story/183115.html

 

[Saintjay]

By and large I think he has picked pretty much the best players available. If we lose the non Welsh media and players will ask some pretty tough questions.

 

[Thingimubob]

From what I heard, the reason they trained with the Welsh squad is they were training in the WRU training centre at the same time anyway, and Gatland wanted to have some sort of match like situation' going on. Also with the u20 player - as I said in another thread I believe it was simply a case of putting in a player who had no chance whatsoever of touring, so not to bring in too much media attention and unnecessary pressure on the existing props in the squad.

No he isn't losing his credibility, if you think that Warburton should be going home, then Kearney and Jenkins should be going too. Kearneys injury is apparently starting to get worrying as I read Gatland saying on the BBC website, yet he's being given a chance to stay and prove his fitness, don;t see anyone complaining there!
As Dullonion said, its all about context, and I always took his '2 match unavailability' comment to only count on players who hadn't played any role in the squad yet. Warburton, Jenkins and Kearney have all been part of (and as far as I know) at least trained a little bit too.

 

[profitius]

Welsh coach in Welsh bias shocker! Of course he is biased but every coach would be a bit biased.

You also have the 2 Saracens props and Farrell getting in which must have something to do with Daddy Farrell being the coach.

The selection that shocked me most was Maitland getting in. Pure political IMO. He was another token Scot but the real clincher was that he went to the same school as Gatland in NZ! I would have Ashton, Zebo, Gilroy, Visser etc ahead of him on talent alone.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Welsh coach in Welsh bias shocker! Of course he is biased but every coach would be a bit biased.

You also have the 2 Saracens props and Farrell getting in which must have something to do with Daddy Farrell being the coach.

The selection that shocked me most was Maitland getting in. Pure political IMO. He was another token Scot but the real clincher was that he went to the same school as Gatland in NZ! I would have Ashton, Zebo, Gilroy, Visser etc ahead of him on talent alone.

I don't think anyone has seen the full potential this guy has, watch some youtube clips of him, he has some serious pace.
Ashton is not better than Maitland, and don't be surprised if you see him in the 23 of the first test.

 

[profitius]

I don't think anyone has seen the full potential this guy has, watch some youtube clips of him, he has some serious pace.
Ashton is not better than Maitland, and don't be surprised if you see him in the 23 of the first test.

He is a lot faster than Bowe. Who would you rate higher?

 

[j'nuh]

Welsh coach in Welsh bias shocker! Of course he is biased but every coach would be a bit biased.

You also have the 2 Saracens props and Farrell getting in which must have something to do with Daddy Farrell being the coach.

The selection that shocked me most was Maitland getting in. Pure political IMO. He was another token Scot but the real clincher was that he went to the same school as Gatland in NZ! I would have Ashton, Zebo, Gilroy, Visser etc ahead of him on talent alone.

Come on, that's clutching at straws.

And Ashton isn't even in the top 5 wingers of England.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

He is a lot faster than Bowe. Who would you rate higher?

I haven't seen enough of Maitland to judge him against a proven world class winger. From the little I've seen of him he has been good, also of course asking an Ulsterman there's going to be a bit of bias - lets just come back to that question after the tour.

 

[mstar]

Can you REALLY compare Martin Johnson to Warburton?? Even though MJ missed the intial games he is a BIG time player nothing to suggest Warburton has any kind of status/game play MJ did -MJ is a legend and any manager would rather bend the rules for him as he was immense player which sadly Sam isn't. So yes Gatland as i posted last year is basically going to pick a Wales side and his favourites will get pref treatment when it comes to injurys. I mean lydiate hasn't played much and he played alright but galtland took him over kelly brown/robshaw. That said everything to me that Glatland is going with who he knows and that means his welsh buddies. Shauwn Edwards was scrapegoat for his selections as then it would of basically been a all Wales set-up.


I have a feeling no matter how the forards play other then POC (maybe croft?) it will be wales forward pack .

 

[j'nuh]

I have a feeling no matter how the forards play other then POC (maybe croft?) it will be wales forward pack .

Don't agree. Healy has to be favourite for loosehead. (FWIW Irish posters, I was critical of Healy at times in the past, but he's won me round this year in many ways.) Hibbard is favoured as a hooker, but he doesn't really have it in the bag yet. If we lose the first test and can sacrifice a little scrum power, Cole might be one of the favoured players to start the second test. AWJ is fairly guaranteed a start, but the second spot I bet will be POC or Parling. Warburton and Faletau will probably start, but I expect SOB to be involved in some capacity because of versatility.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I wouldn't be surprised to see POC and AWJ start, with one of Evans or Parling on the bench - not sure Gray's reputation could carry him to a test place.

 

[psychic duck]

Can you REALLY compare Martin Johnson to Warburton?? Even though MJ missed the intial games he is a BIG time player nothing to suggest Warburton has any kind of status/game play MJ did -MJ is a legend and any manager would rather bend the rules for him as he was immense player which sadly Sam isn't. So yes Gatland as i posted last year is basically going to pick a Wales side and his favourites will get pref treatment when it comes to injurys. I mean lydiate hasn't played much and he played alright but galtland took him over kelly brown/robshaw. That said everything to me that Glatland is going with who he knows and that means his welsh buddies. Shauwn Edwards was scrapegoat for his selections as then it would of basically been a all Wales set-up.

Have you ever considered the possibility that he may have also taken Lydiate as he is very good player as well?

He also selected Croft, O'Connell, Gray and Bowe despite coming back from injuries as well as Lydiate. You are just being selective with the facts to search for Welsh bias there.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Gray was the dumbest choice - 3.5months with literally no rugby, and was on poor form before then as well.

 

[mstar]

Have you ever considered the possibility that he may have also taken Lydiate as he is very good player as well?

He also selected Croft, O'Connell, Gray and Bowe despite coming back from injuries as well as Lydiate. You are just being selective with the facts to search for Welsh bias there.

So you think Gatland is not bias towards welsh players? get real :lol: of course he going to give benefit of the doubt to his welsh players i expect that if another home nations coach was lions coach -its just fact.

Your right Gray is the biggest mystery why he is doing in the squad he played pants for Sale got injured but still got in the team purely by last seasons performances.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

So you think Gatland is not bias towards welsh players? get real :lol: of course he going to give benefit of the doubt to his welsh players i expect that if another home nations coach was lions coach -its just fact.

Your right Gray is the biggest mystery why he is doing in the squad he played pants for Sale got injured but still got in the team purely by last seasons performances.

Matt Stevens over Paul James, Owen Farrell over Dan Biggar and the non-selection of Ryan Jones. I actually think there are a large number of calls where Gatland has gone out of his, and ultimately the strength of the teams way, to avoid bias. He said himself 50/50 calls would go to the lesser-represented nation. I don't think anybody would deny that Paul James is the best prop who plays both sides available to the Lions, yet Stevens goes because he's not too far behind, and would save the number of Welshmen getting ridiculous. Honestly, I do not beleve Gatland holds any bias towards the Welsh players in his selection. He holds a bias towards the Welsh players. It just happens to be so that 15 of said players are Welsh.

 

[psychic duck]

So you think Gatland is not bias towards welsh players? get real :lol: of course he going to give benefit of the doubt to his welsh players i expect that if another home nations coach was lions coach -its just fact.

Your right Gray is the biggest mystery why he is doing in the squad he played pants for Sale got injured but still got in the team purely by last seasons performances.

How about you get real and tell me how many of the 15 Welshmen in the squad is truly unjustified of their place?

In fact, the two most debatable call ups to the squad were actually English in Matt Stevens and Owen Farrell. Your example of Lydiate was a poor one to say the least, when he is 1) a very good player and 2) it is no different to Croft, Gray, O'Connell and Bowe all also got call ups after long injury lay offs.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

JD2. Off of the back of a poor 6N and poor season at Scarlets.
Obviously he played well vs Baabaas, but at the time it was a poo choice.