Is Gatland Risking his Credibility by Keeping Warburton?

[jcahill1]

How about you get real and tell me how many of the 15 Welshmen in the squad is truly unjustified of their place?

In fact, the two most debatable call ups to the squad were actually English in Matt Stevens and Owen Farrell. Your example of Lydiate was a poor one to say the least, when he is 1) a very good player and 2) it is no different to Croft, Gray, O'Connell and Bowe all also got call ups after long injury lay offs.

Croft, O'Connell and Bowe got a couple of high quality games in, in which they performed very well. They had at least a couple of performances this year to base their selections on. Gray admittedly was also selected on reputation.

 

[Aristodemus]

I think Gatland has bias in favour of his Welsh players but as someone else pointed out, so would any national manager. From an English perspective I thought Sheridan, Launchbury and Morgan should all have made the squad and others can count themselves unlucky but of course Stevens and Vunipola should not have. I think we all would pick different players in a squad but I hope we all unite behind the Lions as our opinions on squad and test selection will not matter. I certainly look forward to a beer while watching the first test, even if it is 14 Welsh players starting.

 

[Draggs]

If it came down to a 50/50 call, I don't blame a coach for picking someone they know better. (Such as with Ian Evans, as opposed to say Ryan and Launchbury). Granted, Evans should have been going regardless.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I don't know why people are still moaning about the squad - there's maybe 4 players I would swap, and maybe 1 of them is likely to start. (FYI that's Stevens - James / Ross, Farrell - Wilkinson, Lydiate - Brown, Cuthbert - Zebo)
This is a Welsh dominated tour, with the Welsh captain and Welsh coach, so the marginal calls will be towards the Welsh players. But to be honest if it was dominated by your own country I don't think you'd be complaining - so lets just get over it look forward to the tour.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Matt Stevens over Paul James, Owen Farrell over Dan Biggar and the non-selection of Ryan Jones. I actually think there are a large number of calls where Gatland has gone out of his, and ultimately the strength of the teams way, to avoid bias. He said himself 50/50 calls would go to the lesser-represented nation. I don't think anybody would deny that Paul James is the best prop who plays both sides available to the Lions, yet Stevens goes because he's not too far behind, and would save the number of Welshmen getting ridiculous. Honestly, I do not beleve Gatland holds any bias towards the Welsh players in his selection. He holds a bias towards the Welsh players. It just happens to be so that 15 of said players are Welsh.

Ryan Jones.... to you thats a bigger issue than than the absence of say, Robshaw, who was virtually the best back-rower over the course of the six nations, only eclipsed because of the naure of englands defeat? So, as I understand it you would have taken 5 welsh back row players? Do you honestly believe Wales are THAT far ahead of everyone else? I'm sorry but if you think Ryan Jones should have gone in addition to the others than you really can't see straight at all..

For me, whilst I think the squad is strong I think if only the tour had been 2014, and soem of the talent on the conveyer belt could have made it in. Owen Farrell is seen to be the best bet for the 2nd fly half spot....christ.. Given a year, Burns and Madigan, much more exciting players, could have had that spot. Matt Steveens...well, he should never have gone at all - Paul James is a very unlucky man since he 'can' also play tight-head. Also, whilst not against Cuthbert and Maitland, does anyone else feel a wee bit weird that these two guys are considered 2 of the 4 best wingers in the isles? Both very good players...but one of whom we have all *****ed about for his defensive positioning and his tackling, the other who only decided he wanted to play for scotland 6 months ago... don't get me wrong, these are very good players, but its disappointing that these our the best wingers in the lands. Give it another year and a half, and we could have had Christian Wade, Eli Walker, or Gilroy perhaps. I guess this is what it's always like with the lions...I mean hell, in 2009 Harry Ellis was one of the best 3 scrum halves in the land!?!? and Tomas O' Leary!? some players get lucky with the timing, others get pretty unlucky, I suppose thats just how it has to be.Its jst that, for me, it feels like a case of 'so nearly there!'

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Ryan Jones.... to you thats a bigger issue than than the absence of say, Robshaw, who was virtually the best back-rower over the course of the six nations, only eclipsed because of the naure of englands defeat? So, as I understand it you would have taken 5 welsh back row players? Do you honestly believe Wales are THAT far ahead of everyone else? I'm sorry but if you think Ryan Jones should have gone in addition to the others than you really can't see straight at all...'

+1

I think Robshaw did deserve to go but I'm not sure where he would fit in. 6 is covered by Croft and O'Brien and 7 by Warburton and Tipuric. I don't think we really needed Lydiate did we?

 

[Draggs]

Gatland is showing some serious bias keeping Kearney in the squad...
Any idea if he will be fit soon? Could give them a chance to call up a standoff.

 

[psychic duck]

Croft, O'Connell and Bowe got a couple of high quality games in, in which they performed very well. They had at least a couple of performances this year to base their selections on. Gray admittedly was also selected on reputation.

So what your essentially saying is it's okay for Croft, O'Connell and Bowe but not Lydiate who should be penalised simply for playing for a ***** team.

Ryan Jones.... to you thats a bigger issue than than the absence of say, Robshaw, who was virtually the best back-rower over the course of the six nations, only eclipsed because of the naure of englands defeat? So, as I understand it you would have taken 5 welsh back row players? Do you honestly believe Wales are THAT far ahead of everyone else? I'm sorry but if you think Ryan Jones should have gone in addition to the others than you really can't see straight at all..

Robshaw was right not to be selected as the Lions have a fair few better back rowers. He wasn't the best back rower in the 6 Nations either.

What's your issue with Ryan Jones as well. He was the best player for Wales in the France match this year.

 

[jcahill1]

So what your essentially saying is it's okay for Croft, O'Connell and Bowe but not Lydiate who should be penalised simply for playing for a ***** team.

No i'm saying he had been playing averagely in that **** team upon his return. Unlike the other three who all had strong games, even standout ones.

 

[psychic duck]

Draggs can you confirm that Lydiate has done pretty well and got up to speed with the Dragons? Scored a 30 metre try in the last match of the season IIRC, and seemed in good enough nick against the Barbarians.

 

[j'nuh]

Ryan Jones also gets points for being the nicest guy in the rugby world.

 

[Joseph14]

The Jenkins thing has more chance of seeing Gatland lose credibility. Just pulled out of the reds game.

 

[Draggs]

Draggs can you confirm that Lydiate has done pretty well and got up to speed with the Dragons? Scored a 30 metre try in the last match of the season IIRC, and seemed in good enough nick against the Barbarians.

If there is one player in the world who I would back to return to fitness quickly, it would be Dan. He was up like every hour during the RWC to ice his ankle so that he could play. An incredible player, who is still underrated by far too many.

 

[munstermuffin]

Warburtons selection as captain is wrong simply because he's fighting for a spot in most competitive area and now Gatland has to back his man at expense of SOB Tipuric and others who are playing better

 

[Johnny Boy]

If there is one player in the world who I would back to return to fitness quickly, it would be Dan. He was up like every hour during the RWC to ice his ankle so that he could play. An incredible player, who is still underrated by far too many.

+1

Dan will be back to fitness real quick has he's a naturally fit lad, I think he'll play a big part in the tests.

 

[mstar]

i like Lydiate, but my problem is he is too 1 dimensional, he doesn't offer anything in attack. Thats why i think overall Croft will be the better choice against the pacy aussies -not to mention his much better lineout ability.

Either way if lydiate is thr number 6 and tipuric at 7, i be confident we can win BUT if we are chasing a game and need to score i would probably prefer a more attacking threat 6.

 

[dullonien]

i like Lydiate, but my problem is he is too 1 dimensional, he doesn't offer anything in attack. Thats why i think overall Croft will be the better choice against the pacy aussies -not to mention his much better lineout ability.

Either way if lydiate is thr number 6 and tipuric at 7, i be confident we can win BUT if we are chasing a game and need to score i would probably prefer a more attacking threat 6.

Not sure how many times I've said this, but rugby is not just a bunch of individuals, it's about the team as a whole and the balance of that team. Lydiate and Croft are very different players. Lydiate offers the grunt work, not just in defence, but in attack as well. He'll be there to carry the ball around the fringes, clear out a ruck, protect the ball, or even force a turnover (2012 v France for example). Players like him are required.

On the flip side, Croft offers his own attributes. He's less likely to be involved in as many rucks, instead lurking further out in the backline ready to take advantage of any opportunities. This brings its own advantages and disadvantages. He also offers a big lineout presence at the tail, something the Lions may need against the Aussies.

Ultimately it's all about getting the balance correct. If there are enough other players to take up the grunt work (O'Connell, AWJ, Warburton for example) then Gats may deem that Lydiate isn't required, and he can take advantage of the extra attacking and lineout prowess Croft offers. If on the other hand Gatland believes he has enough open field runners, and would prefer to really take it to Aus up front in the tight, then that's were Lydiate comes into his own. Regardless of how exceptional some of the try's Croft has scored have been, the one for Leicester not too long ago for example, there are other players capable of doing the same, namely North, Cuthbert, Halfpenny and the rest of the backline. Those backline players can't offer what Lydiate does in the tight.

So discounting Lydiate because he's not as flashy doesn't hold any merit in my eyes, neither does discounting Croft because he's not as good in the tight. It's all about the balance of the side as a whole, and what the Lions need most from their blindside.

There's always a more in between option of playing SOB, or even moving Warburton to the blindside, so don't discount them either.

 

[j'nuh]

+1

Dan will be back to fitness real quick has he's a naturally fit lad, I think he'll play a big part in the tests.

Lydiate came back from injury in March. I'd assume he should have returned to full fitness by now?

He's looked good to me anyway. SOB and Tipuric absolutely start for me now. Just wondering whether Croft or Lydiate should be on the bench...

 

[Tony Manx]

Lydiate came back from injury in March. I'd assume he should have returned to full fitness by now?

He's looked good to me anyway. SOB and Tipuric absolutely start for me now. Just wondering whether Croft or Lydiate should be on the bench...

I will wager that neither are first pick....that is if I was a betting man!

 

[Aristodemus]

I would think Gatland will go with Croft and Warburton myself.