Ireland v England

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Feb 28 2009, 10:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Feb 28 2009, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah there was one other thing I forgot, again John the Bull giving his all, even well into the last 10 minutes popping up at crucial times but again no major issues with the scrum, bar the ref not pinging Vickery for his illegal binding all the way through, don't know how he was only pinged once throughout the match.[/b]

Hayes has been an excellent servant to Irish rugby. He may be 35 but he consistently puts in 80 minute shifts for both Munster and Ireland in one of the most physically demanding positions on the field. He easily has another year in him and perhaps more if he's looked after properly.

While I'm at it, Marcus Horan has been a target of much criticism from me in the past. Given the way he's played over the last three games, I think it's only fair that I applaud his form. He's playing damn well at the moment. Perhaps he feels Court and Healy breathing down his neck and has upped his game accordingly.
[/b][/quote]

I think that's what makes Hayes all the more impressive, that there's **** all competition for his place yet he's constantly striving to improve himself. You're right though about Horan, he's upped his game again this season, last season as well that was one of the rare positives, the performance of the front row, good to see Smal has got them to improve even on that.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

I was at the match. What drove me nuts was how Ireland were not nearly clinical enough. This was mainly because of the poor decision making by the starting halfbacks who, in my opinion, were both woeful today. Everytime Ireland were in or around the english 22, looking dangerous in attack and building momentum 1 of those 2 muppets wouldd attempt some ridiculous chip over the heads of the English defense which never worked. What a terrible way to throw away oppurtunities. Just drop O'Leary and start Stringer, with Reddan on the bench.

I thought Fitzgerald had 1 piece of defensive genius in the 1st half where he forced armitage to give away a penalty. what a player.

 

[An Tarbh]

I don't think it was down to the ineptitude of the half backs but more the agressive defence of the English which was so far beyond the offside line it was a joke, had they been pinged off the park for those constant infringements we may have got more space and been able to create more opportunities

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Mar 1 2009, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

While I'm at it, Marcus Horan has been a target of much criticism from me in the past. Given the way he's played over the last three games, I think it's only fair that I applaud his form. He's playing damn well at the moment.[/b]

Agree. Front row doing fine, whether Flannery or Best is in there.

Horgan's biggest problem was always the stupid penalties, but Kidney seems to have them all in goody-two-shoes mode, with the odd punch up here and there. England's pack is made up of old-style Marcuses.

Bowe is ok, but the other Horgan has to come back. I can't believe ROG hasn't tried the cross-field kick in so long. We used to score with that all the time.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Feb 28 2009, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Bowe is ok, but the other Horgan has to come back. I can't believe ROG hasn't tried the cross-field kick in so long. We used to score with that all the time.[/b]

Bowe scored from a cross kick against Argentina. I wouldn't have Horgan anywhere near the team. His defence is still top notch but he's a liability in attack between knocking on, attempting stupid offloads when they're clearly not on, kicking poorly and passing wildly. I wouldn't even have him in the Leinster team given his total lack of form since the 2007 World Cup.

 

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Feb 28 2009, 11:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (snoopy snoopy dog dog @ Mar 1 2009, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While I'm at it, Marcus Horan has been a target of much criticism from me in the past. Given the way he's played over the last three games, I think it's only fair that I applaud his form. He's playing damn well at the moment.[/b]

Agree. Front row doing fine, whether Flannery or Best is in there.

Horgan's biggest problem was always the stupid penalties, but Kidney seems to have them all in goody-two-shoes mode, with the odd punch up here and there. England's pack is made up of old-style Marcuses.

Bowe is ok, but the other Horgan has to come back. I can't believe ROG hasn't tried the cross-field kick in so long. We used to score with that all the time.
[/b][/quote]

Horgan's form of late wouldn't even deserve a place in the A team let alone the full side

 

[monkeypigeon]

In fairness, it would be very harsh to drop Bowe after one performance that was below his recent high standards. It's not that it was even that bad, just he looked awkwad under the high ball.

 

[An Tarbh]

it would be an overreaction and given what there is in the wings there's no need for a change.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Mar 1 2009, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

it would be an overreaction and given what there is in the wings there's no need for a change.[/b]

I'll have an "overreaction" if we don't win this fcuking thing because the back three aren't scoring off planned moves!

p.s. I meant Horan in the front row in the earlier post, not Horgan - shame smiley!

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Mar 1 2009, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I don't think it was down to the ineptitude of the half backs but more the agressive defence of the English which was so far beyond the offside line it was a joke, had they been pinged off the park for those constant infringements we may have got more space and been able to create more opportunities[/b]

Agree with that, but didn't want to go all Gwlad on it.

 

[Prestwick]

I think you guys are beating yourselves up over nothing to be honest. That was an encouraging performance by Ireland simply because they kept composure when the going got tough.

The bottom line is that you're not going to be perfect all of the time and that it is far better to win ugly than to lose valiantly despite having a firing back three pulling off all the moves.

I doubt that if Ireland win the Grand Slam and edge whoever they're playing in the SH in the autumn internationals by a single point the complaints about Horan and how they're not executing training ground moves perfectly will mean much.

On that basis Kidney's Ireland advance. Not perfect but for all the complaints they are still the team to beat this Six Nations. I think Wales & France would be envious to be in Ireland's position right now.

EDIT: My only concern would be ROG. Where is the replacement? Why hasn't anyone been given any kind of game time? He can't last forever.

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Feb 28 2009, 11:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think you guys are beating yourselves up over nothing to be honest. That was an encouraging performance by Ireland simply because they kept composure when the going got tough.

The bottom line is that you're not going to be perfect all of the time and that it is far better to win ugly than to lose valiantly despite having a firing back three pulling off all the moves.

I doubt that if Ireland win the Grand Slam and edge whoever they're playing in the SH in the autumn internationals by a single point the complaints about Horan and how they're not executing training ground moves perfectly will mean much.

On that basis Kidney's Ireland advance. Not perfect but for all the complaints they are still the team to beat this Six Nations. I think Wales & France would be envious to be in Ireland's position right now.

EDIT: My only concern would be ROG. Where is the replacement? Why hasn't anyone been given any kind of game time? He can't last forever.[/b]

I think we need a reshuffle of the bench to facilitate the development of the O'Gara replacement. A scrumhalf, a utility back (Earls is feckind Ideal) and an outhalf.

 

[shtove]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Mar 1 2009, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think you guys are beating yourselves up over nothing to be honest. That was an encouraging performance by Ireland simply because they kept composure when the going got tough.[/b]

I'm in the advanced stages of arthritis from the amount of bones I've broken beating myself up over Ireland's failures in the past six years.

My hands are crippled, so I'm typing this with my nose.

 

[MunsterMan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Feb 28 2009, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think we need a reshuffle of the bench to facilitate the development of the O'Gara replacement. A scrumhalf, a utility back (Earls is feckind Ideal) and an outhalf.[/b]

I agree. Humphries and Earls in for D'Arcy and Murphy, Keatley for Humphs once he is back from the 7's.

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Feb 28 2009, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Think you are all being a bit harsh on Paddy, don't think D'Arcy would have done any better than he did today, he didn't miss any tackles, defended aggressively and competed well at the breakdown, did nothing in attack but Ireland failed to create any thing in attack. All of our breaks Counter attacks from crappy Sasainigh kicking.

Impressed with BOD, Bowe and Fitz today, as well as Ferris and The Bull. Best did well in the loose but there is no place in our First XV for a hooker who can't throw the f***ing thing straight!

Ginger I doubt you are going to get a bite tonight so stop fishing.[/b]

in what way was i fishing?

I criticised both England and Ireland in what was a poor game for a neutral.

I notice you praise Bowe, contradictory to me thinking he was ****. If you think me criticising a player who, after having made several mistakes, jumps for a high ball flapping his arms around and it lands about 10m away from him, is 'fishing' then you need to watch the game again.

If you think me saying Lee Byrne is much better than Kearney is a provocative statement, I'd ask you to watch how Byrne picks angles beautifully to score wonderful tries (aside from ordinary facets of a fullback's game) and how Kearney simply does the basics very well (like Armitage). DA & RK are great players but Byrne is in another class.

If there's any other 'unfair' criticism I've made of Ireland then go for it, I'm all ears. But don't chat like I'm being obnoxious when I gave a fair assessment of the game.

 

[monkeypigeon]

Yes, no doubt that amongst the make believe madness, mock depravity and psudo-sexual anarchists, Ian Keatley is the real thing.

 

[shazbooger]

Back from the game myself and it was an odd affair. Enjoyed it but was also frustrating at the same time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elgringoborracho @ Feb 28 2009, 08:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The first one is that England look like they don't know how to play rugby anymore.[/b]

To be honest, untill Goode came on they didnt look like they wanted to play. They seemed to be more interested in limiting the damage, or hanging on until the break. Not since Argentina have I seen a team play with such limited ambition. Its not like Ireland were good but at least in general we tried to take the ball forward.

Sitting in the stand I was laughing (with relief) at how frequently they were getting penalised. Everytime they had us in trouble they lets us off the hook with the stupidest penalty you could imagine. Climbing in the lineout, Taking the scrum down (Vickery really struggled there with Flood packing on his right), and a few blatant hands in the ruck (I havent a clue what Haskell offers, I really dont). The final penalty count was about 16-8 but the common consensus (even amongst a few English fans there) was that the ref took it easy on them. A lot of the off the ball stuff was missed (flutey's shoulder charge should have been a card) and the yellow for repeat infringement (why keep infringing when you know you'll get carded?) should have been shown a lot earlier.

The commentators over here pointed out two interesting things.

• England dont have a talismanic player like O'Connell or O'Driscoll on the pitch. There is no real leader the other players will look to.
• Borthwick was given a chance to "talk" to his players before Vickery's card. That would have been a perfect chance to slow the game down, quiten the crowd and tell the players to do anythign but give a penalty away. Instead he declined the ref's offer and about 15 seconds later Vickery was walking.

To be honest I like Johnson. I admire what he's done with Worsley as its shut down a lot of attacking options for teams. A very very good move and watch other teams follow. He simply has to start dropping these players. They may be talented but if they cost more points then they earn, they arent worth it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Feb 28 2009, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Still I'm yet to see anything from Kearney to make me think he's remotely close to Lee Byrne.[/b]

Have to agree with you there. Kearney has a far better kicking game then Armitage but he isnt anywhere near Byrne. Even defensively I think Byrne is far better.

 

[QLD]

Ireland got the job done. That's all that matters.

 

[MunsterMan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gingergenius @ Mar 1 2009, 12:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Feb 28 2009, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Think you are all being a bit harsh on Paddy, don't think D'Arcy would have done any better than he did today, he didn't miss any tackles, defended aggressively and competed well at the breakdown, did nothing in attack but Ireland failed to create any thing in attack. All of our breaks Counter attacks from crappy Sasainigh kicking.

Impressed with BOD, Bowe and Fitz today, as well as Ferris and The Bull. Best did well in the loose but there is no place in our First XV for a hooker who can't throw the f***ing thing straight!

Ginger I doubt you are going to get a bite tonight so stop fishing.[/b]

in what way was i fishing?

I criticised both England and Ireland in what was a poor game for a neutral.

I notice you praise Bowe, contradictory to me thinking he was ****. If you think me criticising a player who, after having made several mistakes, jumps for a high ball flapping his arms around and it lands about 10m away from him, is 'fishing' then you need to watch the game again.

If you think me saying Lee Byrne is much better than Kearney is a provocative statement, I'd ask you to watch how Byrne picks angles beautifully to score wonderful tries (aside from ordinary facets of a fullback's game) and how Kearney simply does the basics very well (like Armitage). DA & RK are great players but Byrne is in another class.

If there's any other 'unfair' criticism I've made of Ireland then go for it, I'm all ears. But don't chat like I'm being obnoxious when I gave a fair assessment of the game.
[/b][/quote]

You praised Harry Ellis and said Bowe was the worst back on the pitch, that's what the issue was. No problem with you rating Byrne above Kearney or Armitage. Bowe made a mess of one or two high balls, what else did he do wrong? Nothing that I can recall, and it definitely not enough to forget what he did with the ball in hand or the big hits he put in. No where near the worst back on the pitch.

 

[durbutter]

i AGREE!!! still ireland god luv us, we wont win the slam. maybe. i mean we've a chance, but we prob wont...................................................
Arrgh you know!!!!!!!!!!!!!