Ireland v England, 10/02/13

[Saintjay]

Yep again

On a side note can we end the six nations now. I can't face the heart break of all my welsh friends and colleagues here in Colwyn Bay gloating if we are denied the grand slam. I will cry if we lose to Wales. I know it is a long way to go and a big ask, but the thought of being crushed in Wales fills me with dread. I am not saying beating France is a given either btw.

 

[nosevi]

Yoe, I still think you're ever so slightly underestimating the England squad. I don't think Stuart Lancaster is an idiot and Manu was on the bench. Given what he can do to a defensive line, or an attacking line for that matter, under the right circumstances, do you think he would have been out of the reckoning in the other squads? I doubt it to be honest. The thing is though, Rugby IS a team game and while individual brilliance is great that's not what it's all about. As the posters said " Winning is why we are here".

Ever seen the movie 'White men can't jump'. In one scene Woody Harrelson's character has a go at Wesley Snipes'. He basically says the problem with black guys is they'd prefer to loose and look good than win and look bad, or words to that effect. If you're saying you feel much the same you may be a little at odds with some of your countrymen in the French croud who don't always take loosing all that well.

And yes, I am teasing you.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The unwritten law of TRF means a request for rep should automatically assign you negative rep from every member of this fine forum...

I'm on a dry spell and to be honest cold showers and wanking only get a man so far.

 

[j'nuh]

* noooooooooo, I'm not saying England is the 4th best team lol, that's stupid. I mean in terms of TALENT, I think there's more talent collectively in the French, Irish n Welsh teams. I mean guys like BOD, Kearney, Bowe (who isn't here...), Zebo, Gilroy, Sexton...etc for Ireland; that's a lot of talented fellas, I don't think individually England had as much talent, but they certainly were the best team tonight.

You're confusing talent and flair.

 

[Aristodemus]

I think saying England lack the quality of other nations is a bit silly. At SH they have Care and Youngs, two of the best Lions options. FH has Farrell, Burns and Flood who are all international class. IC may be an issue, we don't have a Fofana but 36 has done a good job I feel, Manu is awesome and I think will be in the Lions team. We are a little light in terms of wingers but Ashton has a better scoring record than most. At fullback I think Foden and Brown are both quality, it has irked me somewhat that Goode is playing ahead of Brown to be honest.
I would love to see a more SH attack myself too, but if you watched the NZ and Scotland games we are very far from boring. Youngs, Burns, Sharples, Twelvetrees, Tuilagi, Ashton, Foden is what I would prefer. As a XV I think only France have as much talent.

 

[racingmetrofan]

We played great considering the circumstances, and managed not to kick off and get sent off during Healy's two ridiculous attacks on our players. Haskells binning was mad, mistakes from the ref like that shouldn't happen in international rugby, and the linesman should be more aware. Farrell was great- can't believe Tulagi missed his kick through over the Irish line. Looks like a good bit of selection consistency between the SA tour and now has hardened our defense up and our players look very hungry. Still lacking a decent 11 but we've got the Argentina tour for that! Looking foreword to France, Wales and Italy.

 

[Zed]

To spell it out, that first try against Wales was brilliant, and in it Sexton and BOD showed they are the most skillful in their position in the Northern hem...

It's really odd people keep on going on about that try. It was a real cluster **** of a defense that allowed them to score. The passing was good, but without Cuthbert and to a lesser extent 1/2 Penny cocking up there was no try. They should use this video as a defensive training tool. Agree with you re BOD & Sexton being most skillful in the position for NH.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Thinking back, there really wasnt much between the sides. Ireland have some fantastic players, looking down the line ups and matching players 1 to 1, I just feel Ireland should be giving a lot more - there is a lot of quality in this side. England were not spectacular, or extraordinary, however they were intelligent. Clinical and smart, took their opportunities and converted into points.

Irelands scrum was very good in the second half, the forwards played well but the backs just created nothing. Yes you could put it down to the conditions, but these are professionals - and I don't want to even look at the stats to see how many times we knocked it on.
Heaslip had a shocker - that will really dent his chances of starting 8 for the Lions. 12-6 down, if my memory serves me well I think it was around the 70 minute mark, tough position 10m from touch and we decide to go for goal. Any fly-half could have easily got it into touch relatively close to the try line and get a maul going from the line out. We needed a try, and that I feel was the moment we lost the game. Oh and he missed the kicked in the end, which just adds insult to injury.
There was about 10 minutes were I thought, "maybe I'm a bit harsh on ROG" - but then he made some shocking kicks and stupidly running into contact. Sexton going off was probably the deciding factor.

BOD in my opinion shouldn't have played with emotions running high, ROG and Earls shouldn't be near the 23, Henry should have started as he is much better at the breakdown. Best also needs to sort his line out.

Positives? POM carried well, scrum went very well in the second half and parts of the first, Best around the park was magnificent once again, D'arcy didn't have a monumental cock up, and O'Brien is really putting his hand up for a Lions jersey anywhere in the backrow.
Negatives? To be honest, there's too many, but really it was decision making. & obviously handling errors.

If this game wasnt in the ******* rain, I think it could have went a lot differently - no excuses though, well done England.

Kidney - get the **** out of this country.

 

[Zed]

If this game wasnt in the ******* rain, I think it could have went a lot differently - no excuses though, well done England.

Watching the game, I would have thought England would have benefited most from dry weather. They are getting better and better at producing very quick ball, which they were doing last night, but it was too wet to do anything with. That's what they did against Nz & Scotland and it's nigh on impossible to defend against. Arguably Ireland have more attacking prowess in the backs, but it's null & void if the ball they're getting is slow. I think if England get Italy at home on a dry day and continue to be so effective at the breakdown, produce quick ball, it will be a 50 point flogging.

 

[lucky number 7]

We played great considering the circumstances, and managed not to kick off and get sent off during Healy's two ridiculous attacks on our players. Haskells binning was mad, mistakes from the ref like that shouldn't happen in international rugby, and the linesman should be more aware. Farrell was great- can't believe Tulagi missed his kick through over the Irish line. Looks like a good bit of selection consistency between the SA tour and now has hardened our defense up and our players look very hungry. Still lacking a decent 11 but we've got the Argentina tour for that! Looking foreword to France, Wales and Italy.

That was a yellow card 10 times from 10 given the circumstances.

 

[Zed]

That was a yellow card 10 times from 10 given the circumstances.

Yup. It was a professional foul. Yellow card. Shame Healy's(?)stamp was missed.

 

[nosevi]

I can't work out if some of you Irish lads are being a bit hard on your boys or a bit hard on the England lads. The deciding factor wasn't Sexton going off, or BOD playing. Your Number 8 temorarily forgetting how to catch a ball may have been embarasing but it didn't decide the match either. If it had been a dry match it would have been different? Yes, I agree, watch the games this young England have played in those conditions - it would have been very different. Given the conditions England 'contained' Ireland pretty well. If you look at their defensive structure and tactics that at least appears to be what they were trying to do. You've got to remember that, but from some excellent (but onviously illegal) defending, grabbing Manu's arm before he had the ball, the score would have been 19-6. Don't get me wrong, not knocking the Irish defence at all, I would have done it (if I could)but he didn't have the ball and there is something in the laws about not grabbing a player if he doesn't have it Good defending though.

The thing is, look at when they created this chance. Watch the match again and look at how the England team played. Off the whistle put pressure on and knock up a few points then contain Ireland. Ireland start to come back at them so have a period of further pressure to go ahead again. I actually think they knew exactly what they were doing. Would a dry, open and expansive game have been different? I think it would have been but I'm not overly convinced it would have favoured the Irish, the English team would have (hopefully) played a completely different game.

If you get the chance go to youtube, type in England vs All Blacks 2012 and watch the match, full match is on there (sorry on my phone or would post a link). Granted the period in the match when Manu dismantled them was entertaining but watch how they played for the rest of the game. Serious pressure to get ahead, do your best to contain the opposition, which didn't work like I said it wouldn't in an earlier post, that's not how to beat the Blacks. So they go for plan B, hit them seriously hard, seriously fast and even the All Blacks couldn't live with it. If you get a chance watch the All Blacks reaction and interviews after the match on Youtube, that's more or less how they call it.

I'm not saying this England squad will not have any setbacks, be bloody surprised if they don't, but it's not the fact that they're winning that's impressing me, it's how they are doing it. Be interested to see how they play the other sides.

I don't think Ireland lost it, I think England did what they needed to do to win, and that's the mark of a good side.

Lastly, England lack talent? I think (and hope) our friends from across the channel change their mind after their trip over to see us

 

[Peat]

Lads all of this talking about whether Ireland's problem is they're not creative enough or not skillful enough, whether it was Sexton's injury or Heaslip's window licking, is all besides the point. It's like arguing whether a chick with a dick has a cute face or not. Who cares? She's got a dick.

And Ireland have an absence of self-belief, an absence of discipline. They are are not on the same page, they do not believe in the game plan, I'd question whether they believe in their team mates. When England were about to get reeled in and Hask went off at 6-6 - when England squandered a giant lead to let the All Blacks back in - they drew upon a collective strength and belief that allowed them to put their mistakes behind them and put themselves back on top. Ireland have no such thing. There's no doubting their talent and individual hunger; if an opponent shows weakness, the Irish will pour into them with manical energy and destroy them. But against teams like England, like New Zealand in the summer, Wales in the quarter final, teams who have the resilience to weather this and patiently build chances, they are going to come off second best 9 times out of 10. Because Ireland will all too frequently implode. The top four inches just is not there.

The dick in all this is Kidney. He is not capable of good tactical advice, he's not capable of setting out an environment where everyone can flourish. I believe he is presiding over a rotten team culture. He has to go. However, chopping off the dick accomplishes nothing if you leave behind balls and an adam's apple, and I am inclined to believe the theories and stories that the IRFU are tying his hands. What use someone like Conor O'Shea if he doesn't have a full hand, or the money to hire coaching staff as needed?

We played great considering the circumstances, and managed not to kick off and get sent off during Healy's two ridiculous attacks on our players. Haskells binning was mad, mistakes from the ref like that shouldn't happen in international rugby, and the linesman should be more aware. Farrell was great- can't believe Tulagi missed his kick through over the Irish line. Looks like a good bit of selection consistency between the SA tour and now has hardened our defense up and our players look very hungry. Still lacking a decent 11 but we've got the Argentina tour for that! Looking foreword to France, Wales and Italy.

If you mean the one in their try area, where the Irish lads cheekily (and illegally) tugged his arm back, it was Youngs who put that chip in.

It's really odd people keep on going on about that try. It was a real cluster **** of a defense that allowed them to score. The passing was good, but without Cuthbert and to a lesser extent 1/2 Penny cocking up there was no try. They should use this video as a defensive training tool. Agree with you re BOD & Sexton being most skillful in the position for NH.

Sometimes it takes a lot of skill to exploit poor defence that said, I am going to have watch that again, I wouldn't blame the same people you did. To me it started with Davies being too narrow - possibly due to a lack of numbers. That was the first big mistake. I don't see what Halfpenny was meant to do at that point; do you think he should have left Cuthbert to handle BOD and drifted straight to Zebo? To me, Halfpenny taking BOD was the sensible option there

 

[Zed]

Sometimes it takes a lot of skill to exploit poor defence

You're dead right and both passes from Sexton & BOD were perfectly timed and showed great skill. Don't want to take anything away from them.

I wouldn't blame the same people you did. To me it started with Davies being too narrow - possibly due to a lack of numbers. That was the first big mistake. I don't see what Halfpenny was meant to do at that point; do you think he should have left Cuthbert to handle BOD and drifted straight to Zebo? To me, Halfpenny taking BOD was the sensible option there

I'm being overly harsh on 1/2 penny, Davies tackles BOD, but it looked like he was going to miss him causing 1/2 penny to go in, unnecessarily as well. But not his fault he thought Davies had missed him. F_uck knows what Cuthbert was doing - he didn't end up taking anyone, he sort of went for BOD then hesitated then watched mournfully as his winger had a free run to the line.

 

[coonor]

It's really sad for Heaslip. You could tell how much the mistakes were hurting him, but as the captain players look at you to lead from the front and in reality Heaslip was our worst player.

 

[Maverick1987]

That was a yellow card 10 times from 10 given the circumstances.

Healys stamp and haskells kick were both yellows . What happened was the ref saw the 1 and not the other

 

[smartcooky]

Was going to get up for this but decided I'd MySky it and watched the delayed version.

What a great decision that was!

This was a truly awful match to watch for the neutral... dire, boring, just like and England v Scotland game from about 10 years ago. Two teams trying not to lose. What the hell happened to that England team that dismantled the AB's in November?

There is 80 minutes of my life I want back!!

 

[Teh Mite]

Was going to get up for this but decided I'd MySky it and watched the delayed version.

What a great decision that was!

This was a truly awful match to watch for the neutral... dire, boring, just like and England v Scotland game from about 10 years ago. Two teams trying not to lose. What the hell happened to that England team that dismantled the AB's in November?

There is 80 minutes of my life I want back!!

Roll on the defence-free, couldn't give a toss, mungoball-lite rugby of the Super 15, eh?

You'd think it never rains in New Zealand reading some of the SH shite that's been spouted on this thread.

Healys stamp and haskells kick were both yellows . What happened was the ref saw the 1 and not the other

TBF, Healys punches were worth a yellow. If the ref hadn't bottled it the stamp should have been a straight red.

 

[smartcooky]

Roll on the defence-free, couldn't give a toss, mungoball-lite rugby of the Super 15, eh?

You'd think it never rains in New Zealand reading some of the SH shite that's been spouted on this thread.

No, I just commented that it was a boring match to watch FOR A NEUTRAL, that's all.

Try actually READING other's posts before making stupid and pointless remarks

And if you don't like that you can shove it up your datehole! You might be a moderator, even an owner, but that doesn't mean anyone here has to put up with your crap!

 

[Teh Mite]

No, I just commented that it was a boring match to watch FOR A NEUTRAL, that's all.

Try actually READING other's posts before making stupid and pointless remarks

Comments such as

"This was a truly awful match to watch for the neutral... dire, boring, just like and England v Scotland game from about 10 years ago. Two teams trying not to lose. What the hell happened to that England team that dismantled the AB's in November?

There is 80 minutes of my life I want back!!"

Are only designed to **** people off. Go play that pretentious horse-burger attitude on someone else.

And if you don't like that you can shove it up your datehole! You might be a moderator, even an owner, but that doesn't mean anyone here has to put up with your crap!

You know what to do in that case.