Ireland v England, 10/02/13

[Atco]

Forget the semantics. Talent/skill blah blah. Yesterday was about doing what was necessary to win. England did that and deserved the win.
They will win all the rremaining 6 Nations games, including the match against Wales.
One indicator is the quality of the English bench which means we can turn the screw in the last quarter. Most of them are of true international class. Care would walk into all of the other sides (except Wales--and I personally think Phillips is not as good but I know that's contentious) and Care didn't get on to the pitch (rightly) on Sunday.
I believe England will become a great side by the end of next season.
How's that for English arrogance!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

For everyone having a go at Yoe I think I agree with him, I just don't think he is articulating his point very well. Basically to put it simply if you were to pick all the best players from Ireland and England to make one team of them you'd have about a 10-5 split in favor of Ireland but you'd have England's coaching team. (Obviously it's not that simple but hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say) England don't have the best players in the 6nations but they have the best team.

Don't try and pass that off as uncontentious and agreed fact that we can all accept. I can't refute an opinion, but I can certainly refute that it is at all the generally accepted wisdom that England have less talented players. I'm honestly quite tired of hearing this from Irish and Welsh fans who I don't think watch much premiership rugby. Its annoying to hear English victories mitigated by the "oh, well we still have better players excuse".

Yes, there's clear-cut cases, obvously we'd all have BOD at 13 over Barritt, and probably over Tuilagi, but there are definitely cases where the quality of Englsh players are overlooke qute simply because opposition fans don't want to know. Robshaw and Wood and Ashton are three guys who are completely underrated, and their sucesses are explained away by the team they are a part of and just the 'attitude and work' they put in. You don't win some of the games England have been just by being a very cohesive team, you have to have ability to back-it up. Look I know this is all completely unimportant but I'm tired of hearing arguments like this because you have to ask, what does it take to change someones mind about a stereotype.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

If I gave the impression that the players lack that mentality I apologise; when I was talking about the top four inches, I was talking about them as a team in the green shirt, not as individuals. Ireland the team lacks the composure and winning mentality needed, not the individuals themselves, and the reason Ireland lack it is due to Kidney's complete inability to get them to believe in themselves, each other, and what he is doing. I suspect you wouldn't argue with that.

As for England's tactics in this game, being good enough for a Slam this year, long term effects - England played to the game and to the opposition. The conditions were appalling, the opponents showed signs of nerves and gifted points. Therefore England went into containment mode. Don't let them score. Don't let them build their belief. Chip away at the score board and their morale, they're going to keep giving away chances. And so it worked. It may not be the most entertaining play style, but it works, and I am impressed by the acuity and discipline shown in doing so. England did exactly what they set out to do, albeit maybe not as comfortably or as consistently as one could wish. The game before we were presented with a weak Scotland in perfect conditions, who nevertheless got themselves into the game, so we went for big scores and kept offloading and running. Do not judge us on any one game, that would be a mistake, because every game we are playing according to what we face.

When Woodward came in, one of his first things was to try and instill an all court game. England would attack their opponent's weaknesses, and whatever they were, England would be equipped to do so. The manner of our opening two victories leads me to believe we're heading towards that again. Maybe it won't be the Slam this year, but it won't be because we went for boring in Dublin, and I certainly don't think it's going to stop us winning stuff in the future. Quite the contrary really.

Sorry misunderstood what you were saying.

What I was trying to say about England was that they didn't capitalise on Ireland playing badly and decided to contain and it worked but had the game been going slightly differently, maybe with Zebo and Sexton still on the pitch would they have employed the same tactics? probably I don't think they would have anticipated those two injuries. Would it have had the same result? maybe, although Sexton is more of a leader in the current Ireland set up than RO'G and the game would have been different. What I'm trying to say is that I wasn't overly impressed with England, I don't think they came to Dublin and beat Ireland, I think Ireland threw the game away. Maybe I'm just one eyed and bitter about the whole game and the way it panned out but I think that if this were a team that could go and win a grand slam they'd have put Ireland out of sight at the 60 minute mark considering there was only a 10 minute period which Ireland were on top.

 

[Teh Mite]

I'll pretend like you never insulted me blatantly, and in the most uncalled for possible way (can you imagine saying this to someone's face in real life, when that person's just speaking his mind in a completely harmless way :lol:?); because I understand that since you're English you feel like I've just insulted your side when I'm being as objective as possible...
BUT ANYHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.......ahem..., but anyhow...

Thanks for looking up those words in the dictionary, not sure if it's a coincidence or what, but it happens I actually knew those !
Oh and sorry, playing defense is a SKILL, I really don't care what acceptation of the word "talent" you'd want to use as a counter.

"oh, this guy is TALENTED musically - i.e. he's got potential and originality, he's got that 'something'".
"this dude is a SKILLED musician, he knows how to read notes, build a song and compose textbook counterpoints."

See the difference there ? yeh.

No need to get all English on me and ultra defensive because I'm merely talking about your side; regardless these are just words - it's obviously the essence of what I speak of that's the matter here, and it just so happens it's far from bullshyt.
England fans, if anything relish this:
I'm saying that your work rate, work ethic and mindset overall, with your cold-bloodedness allows you to surpass other sides' more "creative" (if you really hate the word "talent" put there), athletic aspects. This isn't criticism of England, it's just a simple remark on the nature of the sides' game style, and individuals' styles on the team. There is certainly a tendency, and far more than that, for each side. It's obvious, but needs to be said here.
For e.g. Samoan-born Tuilagi has nothing to do in style with England obviously, since he plays with his super athletic, brutal Pac. Isl style.


:lol:
no comment !! This is just too weird !!! I'M struggling ?!! Did you read that sentence with your head upside down orr.....?

Only if you believe that there's no talent involved in being a defensive organiser, solid scrummager, lineout jumper, reader of a game, thumping tackler etc... I'll leave you to your own thoughts.

As an aside, that's a blatant insult? Do we really live in a world full of left wing pussys now?

 

[Peat]

My combined XV

15. Brown 14. Gilroy 13. BOD 12. 36 11. Zebo 10. Sexton 9. Youngs 8. Wood 7. Robshaw 6. SOB 5. Parling 4. Launchbury 3. Cole 2. Best 1. Healy

I expect the Irish to be outraged by no Kearney or Heaslip, while I think some English might query no Ashton or Farrell, however I'm right, you're wrong, everyone who disagrees has Goats syphilis.

Note that's only out of players starting on the day, I suppose I could do one of all players but meh.

Also, Atco is not half right about the bench. If you were to do a bench out of all the guys on the bench yesterday it would read...

Hartley, Vunipola, Wilson, Lawes, Henry, Care, Flood, Tuilagi.

edit: But yeah, original point, out of the players available it'd be a fairly even mix... I'll talk about the bench in a moment.

 

[Maverick1987]

Sorry misunderstood what you were saying.

What I was trying to say about England was that they didn't capitalise on Ireland playing badly and decided to contain and it worked but had the game been going slightly differently, maybe with Zebo and Sexton still on the pitch would they have employed the same tactics? probably I don't think they would have anticipated those two injuries. Would it have had the same result? maybe, although Sexton is more of a leader in the current Ireland set up than RO'G and the game would have been different. What I'm trying to say is that I wasn't overly impressed with England, I don't think they came to Dublin and beat Ireland, I think Ireland threw the game away. Maybe I'm just one eyed and bitter about the whole game and the way it panned out but I think that if this were a team that could go and win a grand slam they'd have put Ireland out of sight at the 60 minute mark considering there was only a 10 minute period which Ireland were on top.

Wales won the grand slam last year but didn't put England at twickers OUT OF SIGHT. Considering that was a nice day weather wise and Wales were on top form compared to England were apparently in disarray or so we were told by the celts so if Wales were unable to do it on a nice day against an out of form team then what makes you think we should do it against an in form (from the first match) Ireland on a shitty day away from home ?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Don't try and pass that off as uncontentious and agreed fact that we can all accept. I can't refute an opinion, but I can certainly refute that it is at all the generally accepted wisdom that England have less talented players. I'm honestly quite tired of hearing this from Irish and Welsh fans who I don't think watch much premiership rugby. Its annoying to hear English victories mitigated by the "oh, well we still have better players excuse".

Yes, there's clear-cut cases, obvously we'd all have BOD at 13 over Barritt, and probably over Tuilagi, but there are definitely cases where the quality of Englsh players are overlooke qute simply because opposition fans don't want to know. Robshaw and Wood and Ashton are three guys who are completely underrated, and their sucesses are explained away by the team they are a part of and just the 'attitude and work' they put in. You don't win some of the games England have been just by being a very cohesive team, you have to have ability to back-it up. Look I know this is all completely unimportant but I'm tired of hearing arguments like this because you have to ask, what does it take to change someones mind about a stereotype.

I'm not using it as an excuse if anything I'm quite disgusted that we lost when I think we have better players, obviously it's my opinion and I'm sorry if it annoyed you but I was trying to articulate what Yoe was saying and I think the same thing. My combined 15 would be

15. Kearney 14. Ashton 13. O'Driscoll 12. D'Arcy 11. Zebo 10. Sexton 9. Youngs 8. Heaslip 7. Robshaw 6. Haskell 5. Launchbury 4. Ryan 3. Cole 2. Best 1. Healy
with Parling vs Ryan, Haskell vs POM, Sexton vs Farrell, Robshaw vs O'Brien and D'Arcy vs 36 being close.

And the bench would be more even if Kidney could pick a squad.

That's 9-6 and I have goats syphilis apparently. I don't think that the premiership is worse than the rabo but I do think that Leinster could win it and Ulster would do well.

These aren't excuses for losing, in fact it makes it even worse to think that our provinces have been the best in Europe 5 times in 7 years but our national side has only eve been the best once not really coming close on the other occasions, I'd rather it be the other way around.

EDIT: I think I'll stop now I've got my points across, I wouldn't have ragged it on so long but I'm on mid term and it's still ******* it down over here and I'm bored to ****.

 

[Teh Mite]

That time that Ireland were top, "best of a bad bunch" would be closer to the mark IMO. Their game dipped as much as everybody else that season and it took BOD several attempts to drag them kicking and screaming to several narrow wins. They've been a far better side both before and since they won the slam.

 

[nosevi]

Could I just ask if anyone debates this - In the Autumn when England faced the All Blacks, on the day they were the better side so they won. Against Scotland a week and a bit ago they were the better side and so won. In this match, on the day England were the better side and they won.

It's fine to say England don't have as much talent or other 6 Nations' players are better but at the end of the day, at the moment they don't look it. You seem to be talking about England a year or so ago and others a year or so ago. The truth is England have progressed, other teams haven't - at least not yet.

Don't get me wrong, not annoyed at all, but it's more convincing if you hadn't come off second best a day ago or alternatively lost both of your matches so far. How good a player is isn't just about flashy centre moves or broken field running; that's what makes this such a great game. Sometimes it's about doing simple things better than the other guy and that's what the England squad are doing at the moment.

 

[Peat]

And the bench would be more even if Kidney could pick a squad.

That's 9-6 and I have goats syphilis apparently. I don't think that the premiership is worse than the rabo but I do think that Leinster could win it and Ulster would do well.

You do indeed. A randy goat sprayed diseased idiocy inducing love juice into your cavities ^_^ How else to explain you disagreeing with almighty me?

And even allowing for a better bench, it would still be English dominated. Sherry better than Hartley nope, Court hmmm maybe dunno, Deccie Fitz honest to god your best option so help us all, Henderson instead of Lawes nope, Henry already in, Small Paul ahead of Care nope, Jackson or Madigan ahead of Flood nope, McFadden ahead of Tuilagi... nah. England have a depth of squad that Ireland are currently nowhere near. Which is important. Factor it in, and I will stand by the assertion that there's a fairly even spread of talent. Trust me on this. The coaching thing, yeah, spot on - swap coaches and you'd have won.

Sorry misunderstood what you were saying.

What I was trying to say about England was that they didn't capitalise on Ireland playing badly and decided to contain and it worked but had the game been going slightly differently, maybe with Zebo and Sexton still on the pitch would they have employed the same tactics? probably I don't think they would have anticipated those two injuries. Would it have had the same result? maybe, although Sexton is more of a leader in the current Ireland set up than RO'G and the game would have been different. What I'm trying to say is that I wasn't overly impressed with England, I don't think they came to Dublin and beat Ireland, I think Ireland threw the game away. Maybe I'm just one eyed and bitter about the whole game and the way it panned out but I think that if this were a team that could go and win a grand slam they'd have put Ireland out of sight at the 60 minute mark considering there was only a 10 minute period which Ireland were on top.

No, they would have changed tactics, and they'd have probably done fairly well at it based on the current track record of changing tactics/going for points during a game. Maybe it would have backfired in the wet, maybe Sexton would have conjured something up if fit - but containment was a fairly sound strategy given the weather conditions anyway. Remember, we weren't just playing 15 guys in green, we were trying to keep a massive crowd of Irish quiet. Ireland did throw the game away a fair amount, yeah. But England did what they had to do well and critically, the mentality on display was very impressive. As I said - you shouldn't judge us by that one game, it was not representative of everything we have, particularly when we spent a large amount of time without the ball. Let's not forget, Wales beat you in the QF in 2011 on a slender amount of possession, then went and won a Grand Slam next year. Letting a kidneyball attack knock pointlessly on your door isn't a sign of weakness, it's a sign of smartness

 

[Aristodemus]

It seems to me that anti-English sentiment (whatever it is that makes England the one to win in the 6N) takes over a little when trying to assess quality. So England win as a team? Well they are a relatively young side and apart from France all the other nations have the advantage of less clubs and therefore better integration with the elite players. No, they win because England have a QUALITY XV. Perhaps we are just stronger than the others with less skill? No, I am not having that, sure some players are ridiculously strong such as Lawes but strength is not why we win. So England win because we play boring rugby, and don't care to entertain? Every team plays to win first, with perhaps the exception of Pacific Islanders (Btw Yoe, Tuilagi has played all his rugby in England and therefore has an English style). I would say that England were boring under CW but that is a long time ago now, anyone who watched England play recently knows that is not the case now.
As for an Irish/English combined XV, this would be mine. Healy, Best, Cole, Launchbury, Lawes, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan, Youngs, Sexton, Zebo, BOD, Tuilagi, Ashton, Foden. So you were right, it is a 10-5 split Not to mention that the strength in depth of England is vastly superior. If we were comparing with France they would have more but the original point was that England lack the quality of Wales and Ireland, which if I may steal a phrase, is a load of ********.

 

[Big Ewis]

Only if you believe that there's no talent involved in being a defensive organiser, solid scrummager, lineout jumper, reader of a game, thumping tackler etc... I'll leave you to your own thoughts.

As an aside, that's a blatant insult? Do we really live in a world full of left wing pussys now?

There are a few things wrong with your post.
* First, I'm not left wing...at all. Being respectful has nothing to do with that, even though I see where you're coming from. And again, what if I were left wing ? You'd just insult me yet again for a second straight uncalled for time, there's something very wrong about that. You just don't go on insulting ppl friend, wtf is that ?? Calling my entire post "bullshyt" or wtvr term is the biggest insult you can give someone on a forum, you're insulting the one output I'm giving here, you don't know anything about me but what I post, that's all you have on me, and you take that and insult it...there are other ways you know: e.g.: "say dude, you're wrong here..." not "bullshyt".
Like, I come here on the forum and I see shyt like that I'm like, "where'd that come from ?!!" a guy calling my posts bullshyt like that !! It really is strange in hindsight if you think about it...
anyways.
* someone started a post by saying "screw the semantics". I agree. "Talent" turns out to be a bit of an ambiguous term. And I'm NOT saying England doesn't have talent, I'm not saying you suck, I'm not saying you're in the "wrong" anywhere; but you're soooo defensive you're not seeing my very clear point.
England's the best team in the tournament atm. Clear ?
...and now I repeat eeeevvverything I've said before...no. It's useless. I've given theory, examples, everything...I think you're disagreeing with something I'm not even saying. But it's clear, clear, clear...

I'm going to repeat one last example, and then that's it for my part: Ben Morgan is a good example. He's BIG, he's actually overweight a little. But that's something that works for no.8. He's big, fat and strong; takes at least 2 guys to take down, he can break through tackles etc...good use at no.8, job well done in certain matches. But he's certainly not talented. BUT he's still a GOOD no.8, despite the lack of talent.
Okay, this is as clear as it's going to get, ever: YOU CAN BE GOOD AT YOUR POSITION DESPITE NOT BEING TALENTED.
Not all positions require talent, some require hustle/energy/physical strength etc...

It's not a talent to play rugby team defense, it's cerebral, you set your mind to it, that's not a fkng talent ! :lol: It's not a talent ! You concentrate really hard, and utilize your skills and experience. Unless you have crazy timing, like off the charts, see things 10 moves before they happen etc...you've got this special defensive talent. But the regular bloke tackling is just playing standard team defense, it's concentration (with a tad bit of skill at times) and a lot of energy. A guy super high on energy, a strong body but with zero talent can tackle.

Let's see here: if talent is simply being big and fat and strong, then alright let's massage the truth, play the rhetorical semantics and shape word definitions into what we want; Ben Morgan is talented.

I don't think you're being fully honest, and I think you're too biased w/o even noticing I'm not bragging about other sides, bashing England or anything like that. AGAIN: just a mere remark that needs to be said that it's remarkable, isn't it,...that England are the best team in the tournament while other sides have such athleticism, creativity potential on attack etc...and it isn't the first time, but it's still a funny thing.

If we were comparing with France they would have more but the original point was that England lack the quality of Wales and Ireland, which if I may steal a phrase, is a load of ********.

You realize you're making this even more confusing with a new word like "quality", surely ?
Nobody on this thread has said that.
My point certainly isn't England don't have the QUALITY of other sides.

 

[Teh Mite]

There are a few things wrong with your post.
* First, I'm not left wing...at all. Being respectful has nothing to do with that, even though I see where you're coming from. And again, what if I were left wing ? You'd just insult me yet again for a second straight uncalled for time, there's something very wrong about that. You just don't go on insulting ppl friend, wtf is that ?? Calling my entire post "bullshyt" or wtvr term is the biggest insult you can give someone on a forum, you're insulting the one output I'm giving here, you don't know anything about me but what I post, that's all you have on me, and you take that and insult it...there are other ways you know: e.g.: "say dude, you're wrong here..." not "bullshyt".
Like, I come here on the forum and I see shyt like that I'm like, "where'd that come from ?!!" a guy calling my posts bullshyt like that !! It really is strange in hindsight if you think about it...
anyways.
* someone started a post by saying "screw the semantics". I agree. "Talent" turns out to be a bit of an ambiguous term. And I'm NOT saying England doesn't have talent, I'm not saying you suck, I'm not saying you're in the "wrong" anywhere; but you're soooo defensive you're not seeing my very clear point.
England's the best team in the tournament atm. Clear ?
...and now I repeat eeeevvverything I've said before...no. It's useless. I've given theory, examples, everything...I think you're disagreeing with something I'm not even saying. But it's clear, clear, clear...

I'm going to repeat one last example, and then that's it for my part: Ben Morgan is a good example. He's BIG, he's actually overweight a little. But that's something that works for no.8. He's big, fat and strong; takes at least 2 guys to take down, he can break through tackles etc...good use at no.8, job well done in certain matches. But he's certainly not talented. BUT he's still a GOOD no.8, despite the lack of talent.
Let's see here: if talent is simply being big and fat and strong, then alright let's massage the truth, play the rhetorical semantics and shape word definitions into what we want; Ben Morgan is talented.

I don't think you're being fully honest, and I think you're too biased w/o even noticing I'm not bragging about other sides, bashing England or anything like that. AGAIN: just a mere remark that needs to be said that it's remarkable, isn't it,...that England are the best team in the tournament while other sides have such athleticism, creativity potential on attack etc...and it isn't the first time, but it's still a funny thing.

I never said bullshit. I said ********.

Because you were making a song and dance about talent when you really mean this mythical "it-factor" (or whatever journalists love to call it), that same thing which separate Mesi & Ronaldo from other soccerites or Vettel from Button.

Talent (in this instance) is the natural ability to play the game. "Screw the scemantics" is not the point - you were bastardising the English language, air-go talking ******** - not because the point was invalid!

 

[Big Ewis]

I never said bullshit. I said ********.

Because you were making a song and dance about talent when you really mean this mythical "it-factor" (or whatever journalists love to call it), that same thing which separate Mesi & Ronaldo from other soccerites or Vettel from Button.

Talent (in this instance) is the natural ability to play the game. "Screw the scemantics" is not the point - you were bastardising the English language, air-go talking ******** - not because the point was invalid!

My bad, terribly sorry, you said "bullocks".
The English language already is bastardized ! :lol: kidding kidding !!!!!
"air-go"

 

[Teh Mite]

my bad, terribly sorry, you said "bullocks".
The english language already is bastardized ! :lol: Kidding kidding !!!!!
"air-go"

bollocks!

Edit: Air-Go should be "ergo".... Stupid mobile phone predictive text killing my point... <_<

 

[Big Ewis]

bollocks!

Edit: Air-Go should be "ergo".... Stupid mobile phone predictive text killing my point... <_<

OH MY GOD !!!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME !!!! :lol:
********....terribly sorry about that one !!!...

Well I got the air-go jk, no worries !

Anyways: Grand Slam this year Mite ?

 

[nickdnz]

I think I'm ganna bake myself a little cake when England lose a game, because terms like "progessed as a team", "playing clever rugby", "winning ugly" and the mention of the 2003 team (which I'll add was a decade ago), will swiftly be replaced with "poor coaching decisions", "playing the same old style", "same old 10 man rugby". It's marvalous how winning three games in a row makes the English superior to everyone - but one loss makes them the worst team ever.

Not saying this about every Englishmen to be fair, some a very level headed - but there are plenty which seem to get a bit ahead of themselves. It was only a few months ago that the English were saying Robshaw was a terrible captain who made stupid choices, Farrell was a guy who was only in the team cause of his dad, Ashton couldn't tackle a paraplegic on stilts, Youngs was the worst halfback in the Premiership, Farrell had no attacking game, Tuilagi can't pass the ball, Alex Goode only has a kicking game, Brown can't defend on the wing etc, etc, etc. Now they're the team everyone in Europe should aspire to be.

 

[Teh Mite]

I think I'm ganna bake myself a little cake when England lose a game, because terms like "progessed as a team", "playing clever rugby", "winning ugly" and the mention of the 2003 team (which I'll add was a decade ago), will swiftly be replaced with "poor coaching decisions", "playing the same old style", "same old 10 man rugby". It's marvalous how winning three games in a row makes the English superior to everyone - but one loss makes them the worst team ever.

Not saying this about every Englishmen to be fair, some a very level headed - but there are plenty which seem to get a bit ahead of themselves. It was only a few months ago that the English were saying Robshaw was a terrible captain who made stupid choices, Farrell was a guy who was only in the team cause of his dad, Ashton couldn't tackle a paraplegic on stilts, Youngs was the worst halfback in the Premiership, Farrell had no attacking game, Tuilagi can't pass the ball, Alex Goode only has a kicking game, Brown can't defend on the wing etc, etc, etc. Now they're the team everyone in Europe should aspire to be.

Excluding the Exeter troll and Osulli Mi playing, who's said any of that?

 

[Big Ewis]

Eyyy !! Teh Mite !! Just keepin me hangin here, huh ?!
Your take on the possibility of a Grand Slam ?

 

[nosevi]

I think I'm ganna bake myself a little cake when England lose a game, because terms like "progessed as a team", "playing clever rugby", "winning ugly" and the mention of the 2003 team (which I'll add was a decade ago), will swiftly be replaced with "poor coaching decisions", "playing the same old style", "same old 10 man rugby". It's marvalous how winning three games in a row makes the English superior to everyone - but one loss makes them the worst team ever.

Not saying this about every Englishmen to be fair, some a very level headed - but there are plenty which seem to get a bit ahead of themselves. It was only a few months ago that the English were saying Robshaw was a terrible captain who made stupid choices, Farrell was a guy who was only in the team cause of his dad, Ashton couldn't tackle a paraplegic on stilts, Youngs was the worst halfback in the Premiership, Farrell had no attacking game, Tuilagi can't pass the ball, Alex Goode only has a kicking game, Brown can't defend on the wing etc, etc, etc. Now they're the team everyone in Europe should aspire to be.

No, and I'll say this patiently, but that is not it at all, all the English were not saying anything of the sort. England are a team that individually were very good at club level and are stating to put that all together as a team. I've said, and I think other English supporters will agree, that I'd be awfully surprised if they don't trip up at some point. They're a young squad with little experience and they are building on it. I've said I think they've come forward in the last year, disagree? I've also said I think the likes of France and Wales have gone backwards - comments? It's not that England are a 'super team' now it's just that so far they're playing better rugby, given what's in front of them on the day, than the other teams in the 6 nations.

if you're ganna bake a little cake when England loose, no matter who to or how they play, crack on but that just shows you as a very narrow minded, petty individual, most unlike any of your compatriots who I know.