Ireland v England, 10/02/13

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's really not, Ireland have some of the greatest attacking talent in the tournament, but I don't feel Ireland play in the most free way. Kidney emphasis winning quck ball, and very skillful backs who can put the ball through the hands. It just so happens that Ireland also have very creative players who I really rate. But do you think that's being fully utilised under Kidney? I don't, but maybe you disagree. To spell it out, that first try against Wales was brilliant, and in it Sexton and BOD showed they are the most skillful in their position in the Northern hem... but does it make it creative? Apart from Bod's lovely pass, not really, its precise execution.

But you've just contradicted yourself, you said Ireland require Mechanical precision and you go on to mention BO'D's spur of the moment, very creative piece of play. If Ireland required on mechanical precision, they would most likely not have won last week because they were creative in all of their tries, they also showed a bit of it today, using broken play to set Earls through on 30-40 metre breaks on a couple of occasions. I agree that if Ireland had a more creative coach then Kidney they could do damage (unfortunately we missed our chance wasting our best ever group of players with Eddie O'Sullivan and Deccie) but to call them prosaic is ridiculous

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Stick around - best place to talk <STRIKE> about rugby </STRIKE> shite on tinternet!

And Ginger8, please say what you were going to say. I don't want my posts to seem like unqualified criticisms of Ireland, they need to be seen in terms of the way I feel Ireland should play

 

[big ginger 8]

And Ginger8, please say what you were going to say. I don't want my posts to seem like unqualified criticisms of Ireland, they need to be seen in terms of the way I feel Ireland should play

My post wasn't going to be with anything you had to say. I'll wait a day before I say anything and maybe watch the game again then try and say it more eloquently.

I do have one thing to say for people in general Healey is the Leicster ESPN guy Healy is the Irish prop.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

But you've just contradicted yourself, you said Ireland require Mechanical precision and you go on to mention BO'D's spur of the moment, very creative piece of play. If Ireland required on mechanical precision, they would most likely not have won last week because they were creative in all of their tries, they also showed a bit of it today, using broken play to set Earls through on 30-40 metre breaks on a couple of occasions. I agree that if Ireland had a more creative coach then Kidney they could do damage (unfortunately we missed our chance wasting our best ever group of players with Eddie O'Sullivan and Deccie) but to call them prosaic is ridiculous

I don't see how that's a contradiction...when I say mechanical precision, I mean in terms of skills. If you're telling me that Zabo's flick and Best's lovely pass were creative rather than skillful, I'd say you were looking at the wrong entry in the dictionary. Brian's set-up to Zebo was very creative, but what made it possible was Sextons perfect pass which gave BOD the line he had to run... that doesn't detract from Brians skills on that occasion, but I think it illustrates that it's not creative in the sense of something from nothing, from your own half, its quality skills laying the basis for something more.

To sum up what I think, Ireland look dangerous and skilfull, I've never said otherwise, but I'd like to see them turn that into creativity in the sense of attacking prowess where THE OTHER PARTS OF THE MACHINE don't need be functioning in order to produce results. And granted, its a big ask, because arguably only the southern hemipsheres and ocassionally France can turn it on like that, but I don't feel its unrealistic

 

[Big Ewis]

nosevi: again, thanks for all the details there. So you're saying England are cunning and calculating, I agree with that man !! ;p

HenryChinaski:
* noooooooooo, I'm not saying England is the 4th best team lol, that's stupid. I mean in terms of TALENT, I think there's more talent collectively in the French, Irish n Welsh teams. I mean guys like BOD, Kearney, Bowe (who isn't here...), Zebo, Gilroy, Sexton...etc for Ireland; that's a lot of talented fellas, I don't think individually England had as much talent, but they certainly were the best team tonight.
* I wasn't being confrontational, just throwing the "mate" back at him I thought it had resentment to it.
* I'm 26, and Rugby is all about fun for me. If it gets all tactical and shyt, I'd rather watch a documentary. The reason I watch is because it's exciting, just like the NBA. I won't watch baseball or cricket. It's got nothing to do with a lack of intellect or what have you, just, as unsubtle as it sounds I need some good action watching sports or else I'm going right back to my philosophy books if I'm going to use my brain, might as well use it in smt that really matters, actual knowledge and analysis...
To me, clearly, I get bored faster than I'd want to watching certain teams play. And it goes straight back to my first point. England don't have as much "talent", they play well as a team, have a big scrum and strong forwards, and that does look cool to watch; but then watching Farrell piling up those points, the predictable passing down the lane...
Like, I'd rather watch Australia play a good game and lose than England play a good game and win. I think only the English enjoy watching their team play, not that it's terrible, but there's all these other teams with an exciting game. And granted England's changed, they've got more excitement now.

And with all the terrible affected ways of the French, personally (I'm NOT saying we're better or anything like that) I at least will always be proud of that expansive game we can play...I love watching the top14 for a reason, not just coz it's French.



And about England winning: like any team, if it's at a minimum pretty, and convincing - I'm all for it. May the best man/team win. But what is "the best" ? What does it mean ? To you it's just simply the team with the highest score after 80min, no matter the means ?...it's fine, it wins games; but srsly it's just....
ahhhh well, anyways what can I say, I hope for your sake England succeeds and for mine France succeeds...we'll just throw back the same arguments at one another.

- Winning is tactical
- Yes but those tactics are boring !
- Boring isn't the point, winning is !
- Yes but at least play the sport in its fullest way, not just scrum and kick !
- Well "scrum n kick" is better than your pretty expansive game isn't it, look at my team's record !
- yeh true but........
etc etc etc etc

 

[coonor]

Well done England! They managed the game well and ultimately controlled the match throughout.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't see how that's a contradiction...when I say mechanical precision, I mean in terms of skills. If you're telling me that Zabo's flick and Best's lovely pass were creative rather than skillful, I'd say you were looking at the wrong entry in the dictionary. Brian's set-up to Zebo was ery creative, but what made it possible was Sextons perfect pass which gave BOD the line he had to run... that doesn't detract from Brians skills on that occasion, but I think it illustrates that it's not creative i the sense of something from nothing, from your own half, its quality skills laying the basis for something more.

Best's pass and Zebo's flick were both making something from nothing, Best had the skill to make the pass but that means nothing if he can't see the pass and Zebo's flick, I think the a lot of rugby players could do that but very few could think to attempt it even in Irelands third try O'Driscoll sucked about 4 Welsh players on his own from 10 meters out to allow Kearney to get within inches of the line.

Look by no means am I saying I'm content with Ireland's performance today, in my view ,and I think I'll get hammered for saying this,we lost to a well drilled, well disciplined but ultimately an average England side playing ok and Kidney is completely to blame, you're also right in saying we don't use our players well enough and there restricted in why they're allowed to do, just look at Leinster last year compared to them, but when Ireland score tries it is usually due to one of the players creating it it is very rare that we suck players in and get a one two man overlap to score like England did last week, honestly I wish we could do it more and I think that had O'Gara to come on and we could have created a chance like that with Sexton we could have got a try that would have won the game.

 

[nosevi]

As we're sort of talking about coaching styles, or at least styles of play, it might be apt to say something that I've noticed. Watch any of the England team being interviewed at the moment and they'll all say one thing - Stuart Lancaster is giving them a "Frame work" within which to play. Clearly a buzz word at the moment as they're all saying it but it does tell you something about what he's doing. He's not telling them completely how to play, but giving them guide lines within which to play. I remember watching a documentary following the 2003 England Squad and it was exactly the same, all the players were involved with talking tactics in the team room and everyone was given a voice. It was not all top down, they were encouraged to take ownership of their own team.

At the end of the day we're generally talking about guys who have played this game all their lives and yet from what you often hear many coaches totally dictate how a team is going to play on the day. Personally, and I could be wrong, I think that's largely responsible for the change we're seeing in England - they're being given the freedom to play the game.

 

[nosevi]

Yoe, cheers for the reply. Mate wasn't confrontational, honest. I just call people mate in a friendly way, called my cat mate a minute ago, just the way I talk. If anything it's the opposite, was being friendly.

 

[Jbobo]

Be fair......he is talking about the French team and I for one firmly believe that they can turn the disasterous performances of the last two weeks into a world class performance the week after next IF PSA becomes a normal person and selects people on form in their rightful positions..................

Rightly put. I agree that France are due a big turnaround and it will come, that i have little doubt of. Sort out your selection and play your players in proper position then they will do much better. I was opposing the view that Wales are not in contention, which was implied. From my point of view, if Wales play to their potential or to the level which they have shown in the relatively recent past, then they are still probably the most formidable team in the NH, thus they have just as much chance of beating England than France regardless of form. But we will have to wait and see i guess. I'll be supporting the French team against England and Ireland regardless (for selfish reasons ofcourse)

 

[coonor]

Ireland need to just have a look at what players offer to the team. Healy had a bad game today, in terms of indiscipline, and he should be disappointed with that. A ban should be in order but he's still the Lions best choice and actually held the scrum well on his side. Heaslip had a bad game, end of but we have to back our captain. The bench proved everyone apart from Kidney right. ROG shouldn't be near the squad and Earls is a winger.

 

[Saintjay]

Ireland had the best of the stats it would seem. It was the handling that cost them and given the conditions you can only coach so much of that. It was more the players that caused the errors for me. Not catching high balls with the elbows in etc. Every coach at early age grade teaches that, it is up to the players to do it.

 

[nosevi]

Sorry, quick question if that's ok. Seemed to get a couple of messages to do with 'reputation' or something pop up. Are they to do with the little green marks under your name on the left hand side? Anyway, didn't get to read them as the page reloaded but can't find them in my inbox or anywhere else. Any tips on where to find them? (sorry - newbie)

 

[Big Ewis]

Yoe, cheers for the reply. Mate wasn't confrontational, honest. I just call people mate in a friendly way, called my cat mate a minute ago, just the way I talk. If anything it's the opposite, was being friendly.

well I thought you were being nice overall, it's just that word..."mate". It can be a friendly "listen, man" or an aggressive "listen, pal !"...I didn't think you were being aggressive, no worries.

But yehhhhhh...let me say, when November started I thought England was mediocre. I was amazed at how they got 2nd place last year with so little on the team (then again, a healthy Croft, Tuilagi etc....), but still they looked a little "thin". Then the big win against the AB, despite the "special" circumstances which weren't an excuse, as much as it sounds like it...a good win at home now against Scotland and then this, ridding themselves of the old Aviva demons...
England looks like a team perhaps lacking big names but that just play such realistic, pragmatic rugby...they may get away with (and probably will in fact) a tournament victory !!...
It's just a funny, strange feeling...because you look at those other teams with bigger names, loaded with talent and...they're not the ones winning right now !!

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Sorry, quick question if that's ok. Seemed to get a couple of messages to do with 'reputation' or something pop up. Are they to do with the little green marks under your name on the left hand side? Anyway, didn't get to read them as the page reloaded but can't find them in my inbox or anywhere else. Any tips on where to find them? (sorry - newbie)

Yeah when you make a good, helpful, or sometimes funny comment people well add rep to you (it's the little star on the bottom left) or sometimes take it away - but that rarely happens and only if you're a complete twat, which I'm sure you're not.
It seems you've made an impression on people here already.

& just click settings at the top and it will show you the recent ones .

Edit: I got a grey rep comment earlier and I have no idea what that means..

 

[big ginger 8]

Edit: I got a grey rep comment earlier and I have no idea what that means..

Believe it's someone reps you who doesn't have enough rep to make a difference.

 

[nosevi]

Yeah when you make a good, helpful, or sometimes funny comment people well add rep to you (it's the little star on the bottom left) or sometimes take it away - but that rarely happens and only if you're a complete twat, which I'm sure you're not.
It seems you've made an impression on people here already.

& just click settings at the top and it will show you the recent ones .

Edit: I got a grey rep comment earlier and I have no idea what that means..

Thanks, appreciated.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Edit: I got a grey rep comment earlier and I have no idea what that means..

That's all I've been getting lately, you ******** don't realise how awesome I am. cough cough.... rep me.... cough cough.

 

[big ginger 8]

That's all I've been getting lately, you ******** don't realise how awesome I am. cough cough.... rep me.... cough cough.

Not this again.

 

[Teh Mite]

The unwritten law of TRF means a request for rep should automatically assign you negative rep from every member of this fine forum...