Ireland stealing a Georgian prop

[TRF_Olyy]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Ranger is from NZ...

 

[Scan]

Here are some quotes from Irish fans on this forum just after Munster signed Borlase, in hindsight some of you got it right some got it terribly wrong ...

For the record I hadn't seen him play before he joined Munster, so I had no opinion on the matter in the first place.
Just saying.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I'll hold my hand up and say that I got things wrong. Not that I read Borlase was a good scrummager, I stand by that because it is what I read. What I got wrong was claiming "in Horan, Du Preez, Ryan, Hayes, Buckley and Borlase, Munster should have a decent rotation of props". Only Du Preez is a passable prop at this point!

One of the reasons for our problems is that we pick more mobile props because of the 1.5m limit on underage scrums.

Is that really true or is it just a cliche trotted out to try explain away Ireland's weakness in that area? The 1.5 metre rule applies to all countries unless I'm mistaken. Certainly from what I've seen, most Senior Cup teams picked fatties in the 1 and 3 shirt. Clongowes loosehead p) Edward Byrne for example is a fatty who just happens to be very mobile. Their tighthead looked to be very fond of pork pies too as did the Michael's front row and this Georgian prop.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I'll hold my hand up and say that I got things wrong. Not that I read Borlase was a good scrummager, I stand by that because it is what I read. What I got wrong was claiming "in Horan, Du Preez, Ryan, Hayes, Buckley and Borlase, Munster should have a decent rotation of props". Only Du Preez is a passable prop at this point!


Is that really true or is it just a cliche trotted out to try explain away Ireland's weakness in that area? The 1.5 metre rule applies to all countries unless I'm mistaken. Certainly from what I've seen, most Senior Cup teams picked fatties in the 1 and 3 shirt. Clongowes loosehead p) Edward Byrne for example is a fatty who just happens to be very mobile. Their tighthead looked to be very fond of pork pies too as did the Michael's front row and this Georgian prop.

Does at U16 - U19 level in Wales.

 

[Peat]

Steven Sykes was a project player too, which was just as stupid coz Ireland have great strength in depth in the second row.

Problem is, Leinster didn't, so they decided to chuck an NIQ at it. Similarly - I don't think Ireland really need another full-back, but Ulster did, so in came Jared Payne. Project players are picked according to provincial needs and budget, which is when you come down to it, a bit silly. You'd think the IRFU would be intervening and demanding on a certain level of quality, and dictating that project players be signed in places where Ireland are low on quality (7 and 9 spring to mind). But nope.

 

[Scan]

...I don't think Ireland really need another full-back, but Ulster did, so in came Jared Payne.

Payne's a project player?! Are you sure? He was a shoo-in for the All Blacks last season and I was surprised he left New Zealand in the first place.
I thought either Adam D'Arcy or Robbie Diack was the Ulster project player.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Presumably the paperwork says he is, whether or not he has any intention of playing for Ireland, as it'll get the IRFU off of their back

 

[Peat]

Payne's a project player?! Are you sure? He was a shoo-in for the All Blacks last season and I was surprised he left New Zealand in the first place.
I thought either Adam D'Arcy or Robbie Diack was the Ulster project player.

One hundred per cent. Robbie Diack was our project player but achieved qualification through residency last summer, while Adam D'Arcy has an Irish grandparent. Jared Payne is on a three year contract and is not tied to New Zealand, he is our contract player - and a bloody fine one he is too. Although his interviews seem somewhat ambivalent about actually putting on green.

 

[big ginger 8]

Is that really true or is it just a cliche trotted out to try explain away Ireland's weakness in that area? The 1.5 metre rule applies to all countries unless I'm mistaken. Certainly from what I've seen, most Senior Cup teams picked fatties in the 1 and 3 shirt. Clongowes loosehead p) Edward Byrne for example is a fatty who just happens to be very mobile. Their tighthead looked to be very fond of pork pies too as did the Michael's front row and this Georgian prop.

Trust me I'd say it's true from my own experience. Just cause they're fat doesn't mean they were good srummagers most were their more for carrying their weight often allows them to hold scrums without being technically good which gets them shown up at senior level. I know it's a rule in other countries but from coaching and selection here I'd say it is a concern.

I'm gonna ignore that jibe and remember him as a tighthead as I'm a year behind the times.

 

[big ginger 8]

Good article here.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0324/1224313818427.html

 

[big ginger 8]

Loughney, my word he is crap, came off worse with Joe Marler off all scrummagers, not seen much of Archer but heard from people here that he isn't great, not seen much of Macklin either, Hagan is decent though but not international standard yet

I bet Ireland end up bringing back Andress into the side from England, just like they did with Mike Ross

Yeah Loughney and Archer weren't good picks really. What you have to remember is that props take much longer generally to mature and getting their head put through their arse at a young age should help for further along the line. Unfortunately there is some players that never cop on to why it's happening i.e. Buckley.

 

[TPenn]

that article says that a tighthead prop is the most important scrummaging position

is that true?

Compare the performance of the Ospreys and Wales scrums with and without Adam.

 

[big ginger 8]

that article says that a tighthead prop is the most important scrummaging position

is that true?

Pretty much obviously everyone is important in the scrum but you need a tighthead to keep it steady or "lock it out" as it says tightheads are more for stabilizing the scrum while the loosehead is more for destructing the other teams. There's a reason that tightheads along with out halfs are the highest paid.

 

[lucky number 7]

I'd consider a good tight head the most valuable asset on a team

 

[cyRil]

I'd consider a good tight head the most valuable asset on a team

Adam Jones likes this.

 

[lucky number 7]

but then Italy have shown you can have a great pack ... but with a shocking fly half you still can't win

Good point , but look at Ireland , without a decent scrum you could have Sexton there and still get sausaged by an arguably less talented team

 

[Draggs]

Adam Jones likes this.

Cai Griffiths and Scott Andrews don't.

 

[Peat]

Good point , but look at Ireland , without a decent scrum you could have Sexton there and still get sausaged by an arguably less talented team

There are very few positions in rugby where, if providing some rough parity on the rest of the park, a marked inferiority doesn't result in a solid beating. Probably only the locks and back-three and even then, that's arguable. Actually, just the locks, and that's only because so much of what they do is hidden and difficult to judge.

That said, if you could pick five world class, five top international players, and five international journeymen to fill a team, you'd pretty much always stick a world class player at 10 and 3. The others are more arguable depending on preference, but I can't see too many people not prioritising those positions.

 

[lucky number 7]

There are very few positions in rugby where, if providing some rough parity on the rest of the park, a marked inferiority doesn't result in a solid beating. Probably only the locks and back-three and even then, that's arguable. Actually, just the locks, and that's only because so much of what they do is hidden and difficult to judge.

That said, if you could pick five world class, five top international players, and five international journeymen to fill a team, you'd pretty much always stick a world class player at 10 and 3. The others are more arguable depending on preference, but I can't see too many people not prioritising those positions.

But if you're going to try and compete at a world level class or even a high level a teem needs it's set piece to work like a well oiled machine. I team can function brilliantly playing with vastly inferior backs but having a solid 10 man game and being strong in tight. You will however rarely see a team win with marvelous backs and a pack getting whipped around the park.

If I were to pick 3 professional players to come to play J1 rugby and make the biggest impact to the strength of the side and the comfort with which it plays it would be a Loosehead , hooker and a tighthead. The impact that would have on a game is unbelievable. There is no way around a retreating scrum.