If eddie gets sacked who should be the next England coach

[Wendigo7]

Robertson rumoured to have been contacted by the RFU.

Only a rumour at this stage though - probably nothing.

 

[Son of glyndwr]

Eddie Jones is not going to get sacked. OK, performances have been poor since the RWC, but it would be grossly unfair to sack a coach with his record, not to mention massively expensive. Given the RFU coffers have been decimated by COVID-19, that is a big factor.

Yes, I'd like to see us winning and playing more attractive rugby, but there seems to be a strange expectation that Eddie is underperforming unless we win every game. That's just not realistic.

IF it does happen, my choice would be Pat Lam every day of the week. Yes, Bristol have given him a fair bit of money to build their side, but he's done just as well with the unheralded signings like Randall or Thacker as he has with the star names and his achievements at Connacht show he's very good at getting the maximum out of his players which is key as an international coach IMO. He also has his teams playing attractive rugby and knows English rugby well. What's not to like?

Baxter has done a great job with Exeter and seems like a top bloke who is able to build a great playing culture. BUT, we see very little variation from the tried and tested gameplan and that worries me. We also haven't seen him outside of the Exeter environment. I'm sure he'd be able to replicate that success again, but we haven't seen him do it.

No he's as good as gone he originally picked a 28 man squad arrogant or what you finished 5th 5th I mean 5th lucky Italy were in it

 

[BPM]

He picked a 28 man squad because he had to under the COVID agreements with the clubs I believe ... nothing to do with arrogance.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

He picked a 28 man squad because he had to under the COVID agreements with the clubs I believe ... nothing to do with arrogance.

He picked a 28 man squad full of out of form players who hadn't played, the word is foolish or stupid.

 

[BPM]

That may be true to an extent, but I think it was a no-win situation. Had he not picked the Saracens players and gone for inexperienced alternatives, he would have been criticised for that too.

There were credible choices in some positions (we could have left out Daly relatively easily for example), but at lock we were already missing Kruis and Launchbury and lost Lawes very quickly, not having Itoje would have left us with Ewels and Hill starting ...

TBH, until you reminded me, I completely forgot that COVID, Saracens relegation and several natural disasters were all Eddie Jones' doing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Weird that you name drop Itoje, when he's the only Saracens player no one had/has an issue with playing

Naming the Saracens players was always a risk, especially as they all (bar Itoje) had middling-at-best autumn internationals and then no chance to play themselves into form with their clubs.

I understand Eddie's hands were somewhat tied by the 28man squad limit, once they showed early doors not to be up to standard this series, but he's had opportunity to bring in players to replace them when we've had injuries

 

[Reiser99]

Weird that you name drop Itoje, when he's the only Saracens player no one had/has an issue with playing

Naming the Saracens players was always a risk, especially as they all (bar Itoje) had middling-at-best autumn internationals and then no chance to play themselves into form with their clubs.

I understand Eddie's hands were somewhat tied by the 28man squad limit, once they showed early doors not to be up to standard this series, but he's had opportunity to bring in players to replace them when we've had injuries

I've said before. I can accept he took a gamble at the start, but once he saw the form he easily could have not brought in Mako, but he still did knowing he'd just come back from injury and was likely to be as out of form as the rest of the Sarries players.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Easy, he should have started them on the bench for the Scotland game. It was the obvious thing to do, it's what we do with every other player who hasn't played for a while.

We could of still put out a good 15 with a sarries bench but jones thought he knew better.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

"One of the things I learnt about that, I stayed too long. It was my fifth year. The thing I've learnt about international coaching, you do a good job for four years, you build the team up and then you give it to someone else to do".

Eddie Jones - 2016

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

"One of the things I learnt about that, I stayed too long. It was my fifth year. The thing I've learnt about international coaching, you do a good job for four years, you build the team up and then you give it to someone else to do".

Eddie Jones - 2016

"Let us not be down-hearted. One total catastrophe like this is just the beginning!"

- The People's Front of Judea, 33AD about lunch time.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

That may be true to an extent, but I think it was a no-win situation. Had he not picked the Saracens players and gone for inexperienced alternatives, he would have been criticised for that too.

Thing is, I really don't think he would.

It's not a state secret that you need to be match hardened and sharp to be at your best. It would have been entirely justifiable if he'd chosen not to pick some / all of the Sarries players for the squad / feed them in from the bench / have them as injury back ups. Most fans have been crying out for change, and I think the media would have been mostly supportive with any brickbats being fairly mild compared to what's going on now. The worst would have been that new players failed in which case we could always easily go back to the old guard. Another golden opportunity missed.

Instead we're left with crap results / performances, several reputations in tatters and are still none the wiser about potential replacements for Binny and Faz etc.

I admire the Sarries contingent's loyalty to their club. But Jones could also have made it clear beforehand that he would only pick players playing regularly so giving them the chance to find loan deals etc. He didn't, actively choosing to pick on reputation.

As a possible partial defence, we don't know what attitude the RFU took to all this, but I'd have thought Jones would have got his own way.

Players will be asked for their views as part of the review. I'd love to see Odogwu's questionnaire!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I admire the Sarries contingent's loyalty to their club. But Jones could also have made it clear beforehand that he would only pick players playing regularly so giving them the chance to find loan deals etc. He didn't, actively choosing to pick on reputation.

Yeah, I don't think anyone would've batted an eyelid (too hard, anyway) if EJ had said he was resting the Sarries lot for this 6N - especially as he was intending on resting a lot of his RWC starters in the Autumn anyway, but didn't

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

A coach will generally get a lot less flak for making changes after saying they would make changes and then failing than not making changes after saying they will make changes, picking players everyone knew would be out of form after dismissing other players who were in form, holding complete double standards in selection and then failing.

 

[BPM]

As far as Odogwu is concerned though, they may simply have decided he wasn't ready after having had a good look in training. He'd hardly be the first player (not just for England) to have not made the 23 on his first call in to the squad. If he's outraged by that, then he doesn't really belong there IMO.

As good as his form was, it's not as though he has been at that level for a sustained period and TBH, I wouldn't have called him up. If I had though, I would have given him a run against Italy, but I don't think it's the massive snub it's being made out to be.

Other players like Tom Dunn have had way worse treatment.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

As far as Odogwu is concerned though, they may simply have decided he wasn't ready after having had a good look in training. He'd hardly be the first player (not just for England) to have not made the 23 on his first call in to the squad. If he's outraged by that, then he doesn't really belong there IMO.

As good as his form was, it's not as though he has been at that level for a sustained period and TBH, I wouldn't have called him up. If I had though, I would have given him a run against Italy, but I don't think it's the massive snub it's being made out to be.

Other players like Tom Dunn have had way worse treatment.

The treatment of Dunn more than any other player makes me fume. It clearly means a lot to him and he has put in some fine shifts in an underperforming Bath. No caps at all would be better than the pitiful amount of times Jones threw his way. Plus he comes across as just a genuinely nice guy too.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I guess the thing is he treats most players like crap apart from his special few (who don't deserve it).

Burrell misses one tackle and he is subbed off and never seen again. Daly on the other hand is treated differently. Harrison got picked, looked a bit lost and subbed off early and never seen again. Hill on the other hand looked lost and given more chances while giving some dumb penalties away.

Ford and Farrell get treated differently, Billy gets played while not being fit yet other players are criticised over not being fit enough.

Then we can look at squad players, bench players etc. Eddie's man management is poor, no two ways about it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The Binny double standards annoy me,
Everyone says he trains poorly, but it doesn't matter because he turns it up on gameday (even though he doesn't do that anymore) - yet EJ is more than happy to dismiss multiple players based on what he sees in training, regardless of how well they perform at their clubs

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

As far as Odogwu is concerned though, they may simply have decided he wasn't ready after having had a good look in training. He'd hardly be the first player (not just for England) to have not made the 23 on his first call in to the squad. If he's outraged by that, then he doesn't really belong there IMO.

As good as his form was, it's not as though he has been at that level for a sustained period and TBH, I wouldn't have called him up. If I had though, I would have given him a run against Italy, but I don't think it's the massive snub it's being made out to be.

Other players like Tom Dunn have had way worse treatment.

No, but none of them will have had to hold tackle bags for 10 weeks solid either. After the initial thrill and learning you can't tell me that any professional sportsman worth his salt wouldn't have been dispirited by that.

 

[BPM]

I don't have a problem with him being 'dispirited' or frustrated. That would be entirely understandable and fair enough. However, if he went in expecting a guaranteed place in the 23 despite never having been involved with the senior squad in any capacity, that would have been very naive.

In fairness to him, we're only speculating on how he may feel. It's not like he's come out saying he expected to play and is hacked off. Lee Blackett's comment was entirely unhelpful though.

 

[Welsh Exile]

No Gatland option on the poll. I take it everyone would rather rub sand in their eyes than watch an England team coached by Gatland? What if you had him and Edwards?

If you had them 2 for 5 years I reckon they'd win a minimum of 2 grand slams and probably another championship or 2. You'd probably only have 1 or 2 years out of the 5 where you win nothing.