Heineken Cup talks "have now ended"

[smartcooky]

IRB Statement: http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediaz...9956.html#irb+statement+european+competitions

This bit reads like a line on the ground that they will not allow to be crossed....

[TEXTAREA]"In the interests of the global Game, the IRB reaffirms that it will not support any cross border competitions that are not approved by the Unions of any participating clubs, Rugby bodies and host countries in full accordance with IRB Regulations and Bye-Laws."[/TEXTAREA]

To me, that means no referees or officials will be supplied, and that organising rugby bodies that go ahead without the approval of all National Unions involved will be in breach of iRB Regulations and liable to sanctions.

 

[Rumpi]

So STILL no agreement on governance of the HEC next year, this is ridiculous.

 

[Tony Manx]

Interesting for proponents of an enlarged Aviva to include the Welsh.....a crucial H Cup match being played between the ospreys and Saints and the ground seems to be less than half full?

They cannot all be in church?!!

 

[j'nuh]

Interesting for proponents of an enlarged Aviva to include the Welsh.....a crucial H Cup match being played between the ospreys and Saints and the ground seems to be less than half full?

They cannot all be in church?!!

It's a dead rubber match. Ospreys are at home and cannot hope to progress at this stage. Not sold on a season ticket, so why bother going?

On that note, that's another reason why I don't enjoy the Heineken Cup as much as a lot of people. Same teams at the top every year. The richest French clubs, and the Irish regions which have half a squad paid for by the IRFU. The rest don't have the resources to compete. Occasionally an English team is so good that they'll get out of the group stages. But the teams manage this are often accused of breaking the salary cap in their country, so....

That's why I want an Anglo-Welsh league. Would be way more competitive. Welsh teams might have slightly fewer resources than the English, but they'll also get their internationals for cheaper, so it evens out a bit.

 

[Tony Manx]

It's a dead rubber match. .

Tell that to Tandy who is quoted as saying pre match that he believes a win here and in Dublin next week will make qualification possible, or the Ospreys team who are playing as if their lives rely on a win, or the Saints who are second in the Aviva, are playing their best team and for who a bonus point win is essential......I am afraid your arguments is danglybits!!

A dead rubber is where both sides have nothing to win.....................if any erstwhile Osprey supporter really wanted to go to the ground and watch their team play a top Aviva team with something to play for, this was their chance!

 

[j'nuh]

Not a chance were the Ospreys ever going to qualify. The point at which you've lost 3 games, and the top team has already won 3 games, you might as well give up. Ospreys would have had to relied on picking up bonus point wins and expect Leinster to have lost twice, picking up no bonus points. Ospreys never had a chance of qualifying.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Lol

https://twitter.com/andymcgeady

"Dress Up As A Plastic Seat Day" is big success for today's big Anglo-Welsh derby. pic.twitter.com/8ZUCBf5znN

 

[munstermuffin]

Instead of *****ing and moaning why don't regions fans try compete. In my eyes people like Alun-Wyn Jones deserve better backing. It's never dead rubber but fans are sick of the rich French and Irish on top???
What exactly will be different in Aviva Prem?

 

[j'nuh]

Instead of *****ing and moaning why don't regions fans try compete. In my eyes people like Alun-Wyn Jones deserve better backing. It's never dead rubber but fans are sick of the rich French and Irish on top???
What exactly will be different in Aviva Prem?

In the Aviva Prem, the Welsh sides will be facing teams with a salary cap of £4.5m. In the HC, they'll be facing teams with wage bills of £6-10m.

Look at which teams are progressing automatically in the HC this year. Clermont, Toulon, Toulouse, Leinster, Munster and probably Ulster and Leicester. Anyone surprised that basically the richest are going through?

I feel really ambivalent about the HC. On the one hand, you get some cracking games for the neutral since the intensity is higher than the Premiership. On the other hand, you feel disconnected from the tournament when you feel that it would be a major result for your club to do well enough to drop down into the Amlin.

 

[psychic duck]

Instead of *****ing and moaning why don't regions fans try compete. In my eyes people like Alun-Wyn Jones deserve better backing. It's never dead rubber but fans are sick of the rich French and Irish on top???
What exactly will be different in Aviva Prem?

Tell that to the WRU who are trying to run down the regions into their control.

 

[Tony Manx]

In the Aviva Prem, the Welsh sides will be facing teams with a salary cap of £4.5m...........

..............and go broke cos no fans turn up to play at the gates nor buy enough mechandise!!

 

[munstermuffin]

In the Aviva Prem, the Welsh sides will be facing teams with a salary cap of £4.5m. In the HC, they'll be facing teams with wage bills of £6-10m.

Look at which teams are progressing automatically in the HC this year. Clermont, Toulon, Toulouse, Leinster, Munster and probably Ulster and Leicester. Anyone surprised that basically the richest are going through?

I feel really ambivalent about the HC. On the one hand, you get some cracking games for the neutral since the intensity is higher than the Premiership. On the other hand, you feel disconnected from the tournament when you feel that it would be a major result for your club to do well enough to drop down into the Amlin.

Then if the Euro Champions Cup thing they wanted with French was to occur then what would Welsh do?

I understand WRU need to buck up and between the regions and union they should have something similar to Ireland regarding contracts. But I'd say Munster for certain are nowhere near rich and either are Leinster. Ulster get helping hand from McIllroy but if you look at provinces they're all driven by homegrown talent. Ulster have Ruan but I'd argue apart from him the heart of rest is homegrown. Just I think joking this new league is just avoiding problem for further year or 2 but when it comes again they'll have less protection by breaking away from union unless they declare as English and answer to RFU. And I struggle to see theory that joining new league will bring in fans. Ospreys game today against a high flying English team with the best 11 in world (who's Welsh) and we still see embarrassingly an empty stadium. And Osprey could've still got an Amlin spot had they won today and next week

 

[ratsapprentice]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...-doubt-Italy-threaten-pull-Treviso-Zebre.html

 

[Rumpi]

In the Aviva Prem, the Welsh sides will be facing teams with a salary cap of £4.5m. In the HC, they'll be facing teams with wage bills of £6-10m.

Look at which teams are progressing automatically in the HC this year. Clermont, Toulon, Toulouse, Leinster, Munster and probably Ulster and Leicester. Anyone surprised that basically the richest are going through?

I feel really ambivalent about the HC. On the one hand, you get some cracking games for the neutral since the intensity is higher than the Premiership. On the other hand, you feel disconnected from the tournament when you feel that it would be a major result for your club to do well enough to drop down into the Amlin.

Entirely understandable to be fair. You essentially have traditional clubs up against Union funded Irish provinces and cash rich French clubs. Leinster and Munster are essentially the Irish squad spread over two teams. If they didn't do well in a club competition you'd have to really worry. Then you have some lads on here denying that we have any advantage, trying to play down our funding and gloating that our semi-internationals provinces beat your clubs.

Meanwhile the Irish rugby media still can't quite figure out why the national team doesn't do as well as the provinces and call the English clubs greedy for looking for a fair distribution of funding from European competition. Has to be said the Standard of rugby reporting over here is dire, they just cheer-lead like fans rather then honestly appraising where Irish rugby stands, the bandwagon lap it up thinking we are gods gift to rugby when in actual fact our international record over the last 10 years is pretty woeful, grand slam yea apart of course. But yea, we have no advantage in the ERC, do we, It's all [insert managers fault] for not getting team Ireland playing as well as the provinces.

 

[Rumpi]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...-doubt-Italy-threaten-pull-Treviso-Zebre.html

Had heard that alright, not good news but to be honest they don't bring much to the table. i wonder what they mean when they say they aren't treated as equals?

 

[munstermuffin]

Had heard that alright, not good news but to be honest they don't bring much to the table. i wonder what they mean when they say they aren't treated as equals?

If this happens I'd hope 1 team is allowed in HEC and then cut 1 from each of Rabo, Top 14 and AP. There is the 20 team format and well that way you will always guarantee at least 1 from every nation represented. And make it 5 winners plus 3 best runners up will maintain that a almost every group will be alive until last weekend

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

How to we solve this impasse? I think there's a solution if everybody stops throwing their toys out of the pram and accepts that we are where we are. This is where we have to move on from, not the situation as it was 2 or 3 years ago.

1. The BT broadcast deal was for the English rights so the rights in the other nations are up for discussion.
2. Sky have a contract with ERC.
3. ERC is dissolved and Sky sign the rights for Welsh, Scottish and Irish teams home games. To placate Sky, the Pro 12 is broadcast exclusively live on Sky Sports. BT have the rights to English teams home games.
4. France sell their rights to whoever they want as do Italy.
5. The Top 14 and Premiership remain intact while there are discussions on the makeup of the Pro 12 (fewer games, Italy in or out etc).
6. PRL get close to the deal they wanted, the Celtic nations future is safeguarded.
7. Governance is an issue with ERC being dissolved and France not accepting rule by the 6 Nations. A compromise arrangement is reached whereby it's co-chaired by the 6 Nations and a FIRA member.

 

[McTallshort]

Entirely understandable to be fair. You essentially have traditional clubs up against Union funded Irish provinces and cash rich French clubs. Leinster and Munster are essentially the Irish squad spread over two teams. If they didn't do well in a club competition you'd have to really worry. Then you have some lads on here denying that we have any advantage, trying to play down our funding and gloating that our semi-internationals provinces beat your clubs.

Meanwhile the Irish rugby media still can't quite figure out why the national team doesn't do as well as the provinces and call the English clubs greedy for looking for a fair distribution of funding from European competition. Has to be said the Standard of rugby reporting over here is dire, they just cheer-lead like fans rather then honestly appraising where Irish rugby stands, the bandwagon lap it up thinking we are gods gift to rugby when in actual fact our international record over the last 10 years is pretty woeful, grand slam yea apart of course. But yea, we have no advantage in the ERC, do we, It's all [insert managers fault] for not getting team Ireland playing as well as the provinces.

Mate there is an angry mob led by Amiga and Smart cookey on its way to your door right now!

 

[McTallshort]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...-doubt-Italy-threaten-pull-Treviso-Zebre.html

That makes a lot of sense, moving the very substantial cost of running 2 franchises to developing a good domestic league with academies could have real benefits for Italian rugby because even the most one eyed pro 12 evangelist knows Italian rugby has not developed under the pro 12. It could be a model that other Unions follow including Scotland who would benefit greatly having a league that represents clubs in its true heart land the Borders instead of the soulless franchises they have in the big population centers.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Or if we re-arranged the NH calendar they would follow the SH system of having a true domestic league and franchises/regions competing in Europe.