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Heineken Cup talks "have now ended"

So, why has PRL gotten itself into a (now unfulfillable) contract to do exactly what you say you don't need!

They won't have any money from the ERC next year, plus the clubs that would have been involved will miss out on all the gates from 18+ home matches. That is a very significant portion of their annual revenue.

[TEXTAREA]England's top clubs, whose deal with UK broadcaster BT also presents a potential conflict with Sky's rights to show Heineken Cup matches, will now seek a way to fill the missing weekends, with games against South African sides being touted in the media as a possibility.[/TEXTAREA]

The Crusaders v Sharks match that was played at Twickenham a couple of seasons ago required the approval of the RFU, SARU and the iRB.

I cannot see filling the vacant weekends with matches against SA teams is going to get that approval for any of the above-mentioned bodies.

I understand what you mean . I dunno how to feel about it really . It's a shame I suppose but something had to be done to change things . I don't know how close they got to making a deal with the erc
 
With the advent of professional rugby the commercial pressure was inevitable. This business avarice is must to satisfy boards and, if only partially, to pay for new players. Big names in a side will sell tickets so the plug pulls out of the money bucket and you can only hope to fill it a bit quicker than it is running dry or get a sugar daddy. As for bringing new players through, well, this can prove a bit of a double edged sword as they are rarely satisfied with bench duty to start their career. As a Tigers fan I have seen to many do it, Ford 36 etc. But the likes of Salvi Goneva and Hamilton have been godsends to us. Its not good but that's the way it is so we have to make a fist of it and go forward.

You can use the same argument to justify cutting down the rain forests in Madagascar and it doesn't wash there either. We are all custodians of this sport and and we can do something about it, even if its voting with your feet and making your views public. Professionalism is not an excuse to **** on the players and the supporters from a great height. but that is what happened yesterday. They have a product and you are paying for it. You will still pay the same sky subscription next year despite no English club involvement in the euro cup. Is that a good product? No. So let find a new provider. English Regions. PRL think they can screw English rugby fans out of any involvement in the European cup because they are the only provider. That has to change now. Supply and demand folks, its time to get a new supplier.

quoting the words "Professional rugby" is not an excuse for sell crap to your consumers. You wanna buy turds then go right ahead but don't try to tell me that no one had a choice or a voice and that there shouldn't be any custodians for the game. The fact the there is no one standing up from the RFU and taking responsibility for the English game is an absolute disgrace. If this is what English rugby product is going to be next season then I'm not buying. Tickets or TV.
 
Its the English Referee rule interpretations that will hurt England. England needs exposure to the European cup and European referees just as much as Scotland and Italy do. Test matches are lost all the time because teams can't adapt to the referee.

For a bunch of rugby fans it amazes me just how low down on people's priorities the actual game on the pitch comes. Its no.1 for me. that's why I've been against PRL from the very start of this thread. Its certainly has nothing to do with loyalty to your club. Take responsibility as a custodian for the game and recognise your worth. We just got shafted. There's is no reason to just stand there bent over fishing in your pocket so you can pay them for the privilege.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/05/wales-regions-legal-action-against-board

#britishsolidarity #walesandenglandbestbuds4lyf #aintnopartylikeananglowelshparty


The regions are a f**king joke.

Forever gurning about the Pro12, about the WRU not giving them enough money, about not having a fair crack at the HEC.

They never looked in the mirror and wondered why they get **** poor attendance figures whenever they actively run down their main competition and insist they are never going to win the European one.

"The WRU, by telling us we have to play in the Heineken Cup with a more modest increase in funding than the other teams in the tournament at a time when we receive less centrally than any of them, are not allowing us to run our business properly," said one regional official. "It amounts to a restraint of trade. We believe we have the right to explore opportunities elsewhere, whether it is an Anglo-Welsh league or an alternative to the Heineken Cup. We are being squeezed by our own union to the point where they are telling our players not to sign contracts. This cannot go on."

The WRU are (largely) funding you f**king region you clown. If you want the money, do as they say.


The WRU would be better off dumping them and setting up their own. Whether that is from existing clubs or from new starts (again) is up to them. But, given the regions failure; existing clubs might be a better way to go.



Hypothetical scenario 1: Regions win their court case and can play "abroad". They then elect to play in the PRL. Due to no HEC, the PRL accept them. But, without WRU support, in both funding and goodwill, how long do they last before being relegated? One season? Two?

The WRU then set up their own superclubs, which are entered into the Pro12 (they'd actually have to do this as they have not indicated in due they would withdraw from the Pro12). With centrally contracted players and immediately appealing to the existing grassroots, these superclubs have decent (but not great attendance figures) and a rock-solid financial foundation. Which the WRU would seek to grow from over time.




Hypothetical scenario 2: The regions win their court case and can play "abroad". PRL don't accept them.

WRU set up superclubs and leave regions out. Regions wither and die.




Hypothetical scenario 3: Regions win their court case and can play "abroad". They then elect to play in the PRL. Due to no HEC, the PRL accept them. They somehow survive without any additional funding to become viable entrants into the PRL

The WRU then set up their own superclubs, which are entered into the Pro12 (they'd actually have to do this as they have not indicated in due they would withdraw from the Pro12). With centrally contracted players and immediately appealing to the existing grassroots, these superclubs have decent (but not great attendance figures) and a rock-solid financial foundation. Which the WRU would seek to grow from over time.

The two are in direct competition for the support base.

Which would win?



Hypothetical scenario 4: The regions lose their court case.

WRU are sick of them and set up superclubs anyway. Regions wither and die.




Hypothetical scenario 5: The regions lose their court case.

WRU stick with them and centrally contract players, reducing the financial power of the regions to a point where they can buy them out.





Any other likely scenarios I've missed out? [if it goes to court]
 
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Any other likely scenarios I've missed out? [if it goes to court]


How about this. They win their court case and join the English league. The league is expanded. After a few seasons what happens if the PRL/RRW want to join a European competition??? They're hardly going to keep a league of 16 teams in it. It'll have to be cut down a bit which means someone loses out.


Either way it all looks like a PRL way of getting back at the unions and an RRW way of getting back at the WRU.


To be honest the Welsh have been ***** talking about the celtic/magners/rabo league since they were in it. Not all but a loud section and it doesn't do the league much good. Every other country just gets on with it.
 
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How about Regions join the premiership, crowds flock to watch higher quality matches against the hated english opposition and extra revenue is brought in from an improved sponsorship and television deal?

Also unsure of whether WRU could afford to set up Super Clubs and pretty sure attendances would be worse than they are now unless they brought back the old clubs.
 
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Interesting that we could see anywhere between 4 - 8 (Im guessing) Welsh clubs next season if it goes down the WRU creating Super Clubs road. If the Welsh regions say viable in the Aviva, which is possible with the funding cut from BT, the Super Clubs could end up as nurseries for the rest of European rugby, not overly different from whats happening now... Could possibly work out ok for the national side, but could end up in the same position we were in when we had 9 pro teams and not enough money and fans to go round... Could return to the days of Ebbw Vale getting over 100 put on them in Europe...

That said, where would they create the Super Clubs, and where the hell would they play?! At a guess, I'd say RGC1404 would get fast tracked to the Pro12 and Pontypridd's hatred of the Blues region could be utilised to make another (the Valleys might finally get a tidy team for themselves!). However their stadium are both on the small scale for any Heineken Cup action
 
How about Regions join the premiership, crowds flock to watch higher quality matches against the hated english opposition and extra revenue is brought in from an improved sponsorship and television deal?

Also unsure of whether WRU could afford to set up Super Clubs and pretty sure attendances would be worse than they are now unless they brought back the old clubs.

Sorry mate although I agree with you, your not allowed to disagree with Amiga 500 on this tread.
 
How about Regions join the premiership, crowds flock to watch higher quality matches against the hated english opposition and extra revenue is brought in from an improved sponsorship and television deal?

Also unsure of whether WRU could afford to set up Super Clubs and pretty sure attendances would be worse than they are now unless they brought back the old clubs.


What about when the novelty wears off and the Welsh start losing a lot of games? Playing Heineken cup winners like Munster and Leinster never improved their figures so why would playing inferior teams do that? Just because theyre English means little, the regions need support first and foremost and that isn't coming quickly.
 
What about when the novelty wears off and the Welsh start losing a lot of games? Playing Heineken cup winners like Munster and Leinster never improved their figures so why would playing inferior teams do that? Just because theyre English means little, the regions need support first and foremost and that isn't coming quickly.

I agree the novelty could wear off but not quickly. But a year or two of high attendances with increased sponsorship and they should be able to develop their squads. I personally think there would be more interest in the teams in the Premiership than playing Munster and Leinster in Pro 12 games, especially the top 6. Also i think you underestimate Anglo-Welsh rivalry.
 
What about when the novelty wears off and the Welsh start losing a lot of games? Playing Heineken cup winners like Munster and Leinster never improved their figures so why would playing inferior teams do that? Just because theyre English means little, the regions need support first and foremost and that isn't coming quickly.

I'm not sure the English clubs are inferior either .......
Maybe Leinster have won more HC lately but Leicester Quins sarries Northampton are a match for them . Plus like the above quote says you are underestimating the power of the Anglo welsh rivalry . I for one would love to see them join our league .

The welsh love to hate us and love a bit of rivalry England vs wales had an audience of 1.1 million in wales alone
 
I think that too many people are looking at the Welsh joing the Aviva as a permanent situation which, with the new Cup that the English Clubs are determined and contracted to produce, would lead to a huge increase in the number of matches to be played in a season even without the LV Cup!

The enlarged league would mean that clubs could not rest their top players as they do in the LV Cup or would have to increase the size of their squads to cope with the extra games which would kinda negates the perceived increased revenues!

I think that the Aviva are only looking to the Welsh to join to cover the loss of the H Cup matches next seaso and bugger them after that,, they are that cynical!
 
From what I've seen, The Welsh regions joining the premiership would just be for one season, while they sort out the Rugby Champions Cup for the following year.
If this is the case, then I'm not sure whether the Regions would accept that deal as it'd burn bridges with the Rabo, as they'd have nowhere to return to the following year.
 
I think that too many people are looking at the Welsh joing the Aviva as a permanent situation which, with the new Cup that the English Clubs are determined and contracted to produce, would lead to a huge increase in the number of matches to be played in a season even without the LV Cup!

The enlarged league would mean that clubs could not rest their top players as they do in the LV Cup or would have to increase the size of their squads to cope with the extra games which would kinda negates the perceived increased revenues!

I think that the Aviva are only looking to the Welsh to join to cover the loss of the H Cup matches next seaso and bugger them after that,, they are that cynical!

I think you are being very negative about all this . It's happened .......

The welsh regions seem fed up with the WRU although I think they are both as bad as each other

Why do you say that they won't be able to rest players for the lv cup ?
 
I'm not sure the English clubs are inferior either .......
Maybe Leinster have won more HC lately but Leicester Quins sarries Northampton are a match for them . Plus like the above quote says you are underestimating the power of the Anglo welsh rivalry . I for one would love to see them join our league .

The welsh love to hate us and love a bit of rivalry England vs wales had an audience of 1.1 million in wales alone

I was comparing it to Leinster between 09-12 and Munster from 06-09, I think the Welsh regions are the bigger problem rather than who they are playing!
 
I was comparing it to Leinster between 09-12 and Munster from 06-09, I think the Welsh regions are the bigger problem rather than who they are playing!

Didn't wasps win the HC in 2007 ? :p

Joking aside I agree the regions are a pain in the arse but in a time where politics is taking over our game I'm thinking about 2 more Leicester vs ospreys games

I'm just trying to think about the rugby lol
 
Why do you say that they won't be able to rest players for the lv cup ?

APL + Welsh regions = 16 clubs = 30 matches + replacement HCup matches (now 6 + 3 play off) say 6 matches.....= 36 matches. No room for LV Cup with a Cup competition and even then more than most players can play in addition to Internationals etc!
 
APL + Welsh regions = 16 clubs = 30 matches + replacement HCup matches (now 6 + 3 play off) say 6 matches.....= 36 matches. No room for LV Cup with a Cup competition and even then more than most players can play in addition to Internationals etc!

I see what you mean . I miss read your first comment . Many apologies .
It's definitely something they are going to have to look at . I'm not sure how they will sort it tbh
 

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