Heineken Cup Final 2022/23: Leinster Rugby v Stade Rochelais

[Stade Rochelais]

We can say that Leinster is the new Clermont of the Champion Cup.
Three defeats in the final.

Clermont: 2013, 2015, 2017
Leinster: 2019, 2022, 2023.

 

[Smurfy]

Except that Leinster have won it four times and have been hanging around at the top of the competition for 20 years or more. So a little bit different to Clermont.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Shame about some of the stuff that has surrounded this. No idea whether anything Alldritt is saying has any validity, all I do know is that he's a hell of a player.

Not anti Leinster at all, they play some great rugby. Fully approved of their whole starting XV being Irish, but just wish though that for a club competition they weren't such a proxy for the national team. I reckon that 15 of the squad, were involved in the 6N final game v England, 11 as starters and Sexton wasn't involved at the weekend. I know we've been through this before and I'm not trying to start a ruck, just saying what my preference is.

 

[Stade Rochelais]

Shame about some of the stuff that has surrounded this. No idea whether anything Alldritt is saying has any validity, all I do know is that he's a hell of a player.

Not anti Leinster at all, they play some great rugby. Fully approved of their whole starting XV being Irish, but just wish though that for a club competition they weren't such a proxy for the national team. I reckon that 15 of the squad, were involved in the 6N final game v England, 11 as starters and Sexton wasn't involved at the weekend. I know we've been through this before and I'm not trying to start a ruck, just saying what my preference is.

I inquired, the organizers did their job badly.
The families of the players and the supporters of the La Rochelle stadium received insults in front of the entrance to the stadium and above all a lot of provocation.
They were mistreated by security, they were told they had to wait half an hour before they could enter the stadium.
It took the intervention of the president of the La Rochelle stadium to resolve the situation.
If the management office of the La Rochelle stadium has closed its eyes, it is because they have won the ***le.
It's really shameful to do that.

Something else Jonathan Sexton would have violently pushed Ronan O'gara, even on this incident, la rochelle did not want to file a complaint.

I am really disappointed with the behavior of Jonathan Sexton, he is a player who I appreciate terribly but not anymore.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[munstermuffin]

I think the big worry from Leinster here is (and possibly an issue for Ireland) is whatever you think of ROG and La Rochelle - They have mentally got to Leinster as a whole.
In some parts it is funny but in others it is scary.

On Joe Duffy, a radio whinging show in Ireland, they had a segment on Leinster fans genuinely ringing in close to tears that Munster fans mainly but also other provinces were at game in Munster jerseys etc and La Rochelle hats. Now personally I think I said it here during week I didn't care who won. ROG, Donnacha Ryan, Sean Dougall. Munster had a bigger connection to La Rochelle so I get that. On the other hand Leinster are Irish and in a twisted way we needed them to win to boost RWC hopes. So I get the mixed views from Munster. Equally Ultan Dillane is a cult hero in Connacht so I get alot up there rooted for him. And before people say Henshaw. Anyone knows that left a sour taste in some mouths up there. But firstly Leinster crying about that alone that effectively noone cheered with them is a worry to see. As in my opinion it shows a chink of weakness/vulnerability. Now I will say that wasn't the players/staff.

I don't visit myself but Babbling Brook but have heard over the last 2 games (Munster and La Rochelle) that alot have became very agressive and all I would say is as a fanbase Leinster would need to steady the ship and equally point out that it shouldn't let a minority ruin reputation of a majority.

On game parts. Just as I reading up on some more details now. Sean O'Brien was positioned at the refs door purposely as ROG had words with Wayne Barnes last year. Now in my opinion Leinster got sucked in and took the bait. The fact they tried to prevent ROG or whoever going n was a big error. It let La Rochelle believe they had Leinster on edge and equally distracted Leinster from their own plans.

On the coin toss. Again these comments let build and La Rochelle got the motivation off it where Leinster were kind of caught off guard but again I would argue it worked as Leinster got sucked in to distraction a bit (this was supposedly let known to Leinster on the toss at h/t shouting before people say it became known only post game)

Leinster lost 2 games by the minimum and in both games they were massively let down by game management. They can blame refs, fans, coin tosses or whatever they want. But this is fact. Leinster aren't just gone to **** all of a sudden and anyone who believes that is deluded.
But the biggest issue they have is mentally at the moment. I get it was 2 different games but for all the praise of Leinster in the 2 games they lost it came down to not been clinical or smart.

Few examples:
vs Munster
- Harry Byrne was good off tee yet they let Frawley hit a conversion and he missed it. Why??
- Pen with 10 minutes to go well within range. 2 ahead. They go to corner and then get overturned.
- After Munster get drop goal (with plenty of time) they make most basic errors to fluff the restart.

These are 3 errors I am flagging in this game for a reason.

vs La Rochelle
- 2 missed conversions were more should be scoring than iffy. If attitude of point 1 above is how kicking practice was for last few weeks then this was a mental errors. And I would ask if Sexton was there (even at practices) would the standards have been higher.
- The pen with few mins left (and no hooker on the field). Why not go for the 3. At worst you will receive a drop out or lineout as they would clear lines. My other gripe here is when they kicked it was noted that a lapse on there being no hooker was mentioned. Yes VDF can throw but still. Look back at lineout throw. It was crooked and everyone seemed to agree on that but they got away with it.
- On to DG. And I note point 2 above. Munster took the DG when available last week as rule 1 is secure game. Leinster in 1 week did not learn that after it happening. RB had plenty of chances. The 9 and 10 need to take control here and neither did. They tried to be smart or pass the pressure and it hurt.
- Now point 3 above reflects this the red card. It was stupidity of the highest order. Like can't really describe it any other way. But again it was a basic error that put them from having a chance in the game. Maybe they would have scored a try. Maybe not but regardless it moved from having a chance to effectively throwing the game away.

The mental side is where there needs to be big addressing.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Lol, Leinster fans getting criticised for being nasty sums up what a crock of **** this all is. We're notoriously soft as baby ****.

 

[munstermuffin]

Lol, Leinster fans getting criticised for being nasty sums up what a crock of **** this all is. We're notoriously soft as baby ****.

I wasn't hammering Leinster fans. But more Joe Duffy ???? Come on

 

[big ginger 8]

Joe Duffy is at least partially scripted and used to stir up controversy. Using it as anything approaching an actual reflection of reality is absurd.

 

[Stade Rochelais]

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Joe Duffy is at least partially scripted and used to stir up controversy. Using it as anything approaching an actual reflection of reality is absurd.

 

[munstermuffin]

Joe Duffy is at least partially scripted and used to stir up controversy. Using it as anything approaching an actual reflection of reality is absurd.

True. As I said just used it as a bit OTT of what happening up that way that they even found it worthy of giving air time, and seemed to have got legs as I see there a 2nd day or part on again per catch up description

I think we can all agree if nothing else we are getting a good few laughs and giggles out of some of the fallout from all sides.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I like the leinster fans tbh.

My grip is soley aimed at the Irish media honestly, which as I said before I think how people feel alot when it comes to the English.

 

[munstermuffin]

I like the leinster fans tbh.

My grip is soley aimed at the Irish media honestly, which as I said before I think how people feel alot when it comes to the English.

Have said it for years they have built up so many (not fans) through over hyping etc and well it meant the crash for some was going to be hard.

But I must state I know it a small minority but the last 2 weeks have been the funniest for whinging and refusal to accept loss I've ever seen/heard. Like if it was staged I think whoever scripted it deserves an award but encourage many to listen to Liveline podcast. Joe Duffy. Some lads are probably on watch and seem mpre concerned at people not liking/cheering for them as opposed to winning game.
Like the show has turned in to less the match and more the sideshow of ROG outfoxing Leinster and a minority making loud crying.

And I do go out of way to say minority as I have heard from many Leinster fans who gave excellent balanced views on games.
But for a neutral it has been very entertaining to follow.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

My unpopular opinion is that were a very mentally resilient squad and we'll bounce back from this again. The challenge of leadership is more of a tactical thing, when we meet a team that can hang with us, they know how to win a tight game and we've forgotten.

Brooks Koepka was clutch until he wasn't, messed up about 3 majors he could / should have won in recent years and now he's back. Loads of people hate him too, let's be Brooksy.

Got caught up on the reaction for the last few days but I'm over it. LaR are a better team than us but it's not unsurmountable, arguably within our control, and most non-Leinster Irish rugby fans care way more about us than we do them, Twitter jizzing itself over us losing has to be taken as nothing but a compliment.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

My unpopular opinion is that were a very mentally resilient squad and we'll bounce back from this again.

Absolutely will,
It was two games by one point,
Didn't watch the URC semi but the Champions cup had a couple of missed conversions

People love to get all hyperbolic because Leinster have been so successful in recent times, but realistically a moderate breeze and they'd be Champions cup champions and in the URC final

There was no suggestion of them fluffing their lines or collapsing under the pressure, just two tough games that could've gone either way

 

[munstermuffin]

My unpopular opinion is that were a very mentally resilient squad and we'll bounce back from this again. The challenge of leadership is more of a tactical thing, when we meet a team that can hang with us, they know how to win a tight game and we've forgotten.

Brooks Koepka was clutch until he wasn't, messed up about 3 majors he could / should have won in recent years and now he's back. Loads of people hate him too, let's be Brooksy.

Got caught up on the reaction for the last few days but I'm over it. LaR are a better team than us but it's not unsurmountable, arguably within our control, and most non-Leinster Irish rugby fans care way more about us than we do them, Twitter jizzing itself over us losing has to be taken as nothing but a compliment.

I think Joe Duffy and Babbling Brook would argue differently for that last end Munster haven't been in final in years and we getting as much mentions as Leinster from Leinster fans. ROG really did get in to some lads heads and seems they cantlet him out. Great craic though.

On top bit 100% agree. Leinster do still have tools and maybe it is a leadership thing but big issue will be settling on a 10 for next 2 or 3 years.
The pack all are relatively young and shouldn't be issue if all even 85% stay fit.
Many teams pray for good hooker Kelliher would be a star for 99% of teams but Sheehan is a generational hooker

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Absolutely will,
It was two games by one point,
Didn't watch the URC semi but the Champions cup had a couple of missed conversions

People love to get all hyperbolic because Leinster have been so successful in recent times, but realistically a moderate breeze and they'd be Champions cup champions and in the URC final

There was no suggestion of them fluffing their lines or collapsing under the pressure, just two tough games that could've gone either way

It was also 17 point lead after what 20 minutes or something at home.

It was only a 1 point loss but that 17 points will be in their head.

The big thing is they will have a new head coach who has won the RWC and I think he will be big with making sure those loses don't stay in their mind.

 

[corny]

My unpopular opinion is that were a very mentally resilient squad and we'll bounce back from this again. The challenge of leadership is more of a tactical thing, when we meet a team that can hang with us, they know how to win a tight game and we've forgotten.

Brooks Koepka was clutch until he wasn't, messed up about 3 majors he could / should have won in recent years and now he's back. Loads of people hate him too, let's be Brooksy.

Got caught up on the reaction for the last few days but I'm over it. LaR are a better team than us but it's not unsurmountable, arguably within our control, and most non-Leinster Irish rugby fans care way more about us than we do them, Twitter jizzing itself over us losing has to be taken as nothing but a compliment.

A very obvious example of this lack of leadership was Leinster's failure to challenge Skelton in the lineout. LaR became very predictable, throwing to Skelton at 2 and we basically watched them do it. It was sinful to not mix it up and challenge him at source.

 

[munstermuffin]

Just seen it will be made official during week but Sexton won't be punished. I think it looks likely both teams will get a tasty fine. No more.
Ala'alatoa looking at a mid range ban so probably miss first few weeks of next season.
And as already probably guessed. No citings.

Seen somewhere too that Ross Byrne had 0 passes in 1st half. That can't be right as I thought RTE were over exaggerating a pass of his for first try