HEC: Northampton Saints - Llanelli Scarlets (18-11-2011, 20:00)

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Franklin's Gardens, Northampton (18-11-2011, 20:00)

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[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR][TD] Northampton Saints [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] Llanelli Scarlets [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Ben Foden [/TD][TD] 15 [/TD][TD] Liam Williams [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Chris Ashton [/TD][TD] 14 [/TD][TD] George North [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Jon Clarke [/TD][TD] 13 [/TD][TD] Scott Williams [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] James Downey [/TD][TD] 12 [/TD][TD] Jonathan Davies [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Vasily Artemyev [/TD][TD] 11 [/TD][TD] Sean Lamont [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Ryan Lamb [/TD][TD] 10 [/TD][TD] Rhys Priestland [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Lee Dickson [/TD][TD] 9 [/TD][TD] Gareth Davies [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Roger Wilson [/TD][TD] 8 [/TD][TD] Ben Morgan [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Tom Wood [/TD][TD] 7 [/TD][TD] Jon Edwards [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Calum Clark [/TD][TD] 6 [/TD][TD] Aaron Shingler [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Mark Sorenson [/TD][TD] 5 [/TD][TD] Damian Welch [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Courtney Lawes [/TD][TD] 4 [/TD][TD] Sione Timani [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Brian Mujati [/TD][TD] 3 [/TD][TD] Rhys Thomas [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Dylan Hartley [/TD][TD] 2 [/TD][TD] Matthew Rees [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Soane Tonga'uiha [/TD][TD] 1 [/TD][TD] Iesteyn Thomas [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Mikey Haywood [/TD][TD] 16 [/TD][TD] Ken Owens [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Alex Waller [/TD][TD] 17 [/TD][TD] Phil John [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Paul Doran-Jones [/TD][TD] 18 [/TD][TD] Rhodri Jones [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Samu Manoa [/TD][TD] 19 [/TD][TD] Lou Reed [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Phil Dowson [/TD][TD] 20 [/TD][TD] Matt Gilbert [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Martin Roberts [/TD][TD] 21 [/TD][TD] Rhodri Williams [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Steve Myler [/TD][TD] 22 [/TD][TD] Stephen Jones [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] George Pisi [/TD][TD] 23 [/TD][TD] Daniel Evans [/TD][/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Me 1]

A lot of injuries in the pack, and it's not that strong anyway...........

 

[Draggs]

How long is McCusker out for? Shingler has done a good job on the blindside, and Johnathan Edwards is a decent openside, so they should provide adequate cover.
Pre-injury (2010) McCusker was looking very good indeed. Hope he is eventually able to recapture that form.

 

[profitius]

Scarlets chief Nigel Davies accuses Heineken Cup opponents Northampton of illegal scrummaging


Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbyn...gal-scrummaging-91466-29772191/#ixzz1e0TTFygH

SCARLETS coach Nigel Davies has stirred the pot ahead of Friday's Heineken Cup showdown with Northampton by accusing the Saints of illegal scrummaging.

Davies is to seek a meeting with ERC referees chief Donal Courtney this week to raise his concerns over the English club's tactics in the tight.

His comments are an echo of those made by Dai Young a year ago, with the then-Blues boss having questioned the legality of the Saints' scrum ahead of the Euro double header between the sides.

Young's words enraged Northampton, who proceeded to win both matches with their scrummaging power proving a key factor, so it will be interesting to see how Davies' comments go down.

Looking ahead to Friday's clash at Franklin's Gardens, Davies said: "The scrum area is going to be interesting. I think they are illegal in that area to be honest and I think that needs to be looked at.

"It's an area I want clarity on before we go into the game. I will speak to Donal Courtney this week. I just want clarification.

"Northampton will look to put pressure on us in that area. If they keep on coming up in the scrum and that's not going to be refereed, then you are not going to have a fair contest at the scrum. We will see how that pans out. It's an area we've got to get right as well."

Adding his thoughts, Scarlets No.8 Ben Morgan said: "Obviously Northampton are a team that relies heavily on their pack so it's going to be a physical battle.

"With guys like Courtney Lawes, Tonga'uiha and Mujati playing for them, they are really forward dominant.

"I think it's going to be a great game but ultimately it's going to start with that battle up front.

"They are going to want to try and bully us, but we've got to try and overcome that.

"We have got to go tight as a team and keep that positive mentality.

"We gave gone through some heavy packs and Northampton are going to be no different."

The Scarlets will hope to have back rower Rob McCusker (sprained foot) available for the trip to the east Midlands, but lock Dominic Day will be out for around a month after suffering a calf tear in Saturday's victory over Castres.



Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbyn...gal-scrummaging-91466-29772191/#ixzz1e0TOYbI5

Interesting comments about Northamptons illegal scrummaging. I found this post on munsterfans.

They are very strong men in a very strong unit but a lot of what they do is illegal. If you notice, the vast majority of their scrum penalties come from going up on their loosehead side with the oppostion 'apparently' trying to walk round them and/or detaching(i'll come back to the detaching bit) but Northampton are the ones that actually induce this by their tactics.

Step 1; The set-up. In the perfect world the 2 front rows would set up straight against each-other with the hookers literally toe-2-toe, they both start with their right feet forward. But Saints are cute enough in this regard in that a lot of the time they set-up second so that the opposition are in position then Hartley walks in and eeks out a few inches to his left so that he's more in line with the oppo tighthead than the hooker(he leaves the hooker to his tighthead).

Step 2 - Now you might say that Hartley stepping to the left will push Tonga'uiha out beyond his opponent but he can counter this by simply tucking his shoulder in behind Hartley so that he can stay in on his opponent for long enough. A lot of the time it actaully isn't that obvious that by Tonga'uiha though and you just have to accept that he's a beast.

Step 3 - Step 3 with Hartley gone across to the tighthead his own tighthead will, by simply staying bound to him, without even cheating and tucking his shoulder in, end up in on the oppo hooker leaving the oppo loosehead no-one to scrummage against.

Thats just the set-up of the scrum before it evens comes to pushing. I'm sure many will figure out how the physics of it all will go from here.

Your perfect world scrum is even destined to wheel as the two masses(think the hookers Spines) are offset from eachother,

Northampton enhance this even further. With their front row shifted across they aim to get the oppo tighthead going backwards,(here comes the most annoying bit for me) once it get towards 90degrees tonga'uiha then bails out and breaks his bind with his opponent(Breaking your bind is illegal), as they've got the oppo front row looking more towards the touchline than tryline, and he starts to step sideways pulling Hartley with him who's still pointing up the field but now driving across the tighthead and popping him up. Hartley in turn is also pulling Mujati sideways who's driving across ala Hartley on the tighthead.

From refereeing perspective its clouded by the fact that most refs will consider the team thats going forward to be the stronger scrummagers and therefore they must be better and the oppo must be cheating to try to defend them. Refs continually say before matches that positive scrummaging will be rewarded and negative scrummaging will be penalised, by this they mean that the team that committs to the pushing contest is in their eyes being more positive and that the one that looks like its trying to wheel or step round and drive across is being negative. Its a misguided directive. Northampton induce the opposition into whats looks like a step round to defend and thus milk penalties.

 

[CJL]

You would have to fancy Northamton here, i thought they were very impressive last week. Foden and Ashton together looked lethal. Ashtons work-rate for his try was top class and Foden was also on top of his game and put his body on the line at times too when he was clearly struggling with a rib injury. Northamton by 12 i'd say.

On the scrumaging; firstly I am no expert, not by any means. I do remember two years ago that Paul O'Connell had a huge arguement with the ref over Northamton's scrumagaing techniques. i don't remember the specifics but POC certainly wasn't happy...Poite(the ref on the day) was having none of it though.

 

[Teh Mite]

Paul O'Connell arguing with a ref? That must be a first....

 

[CJL]

Paul O'Connell arguing with a ref? That must be a first....

haha, ya...it wasnt the run of the mill arguement...he was trying to explain what Northamton were doing illegally at scrum time and was particularly upset about it....however it also might have been because him and Poite don't exactly see eye to eye.

 

[dullonien]

The Scarlets simply have to compete up front to stand a chance. Rhys Thomas has got a big job to do in the scrum, but he's got two good players alongside him in that front-row. Northampton will get a few penalties here I'm sure, but the Scarlets have to make sure they don't get completely mullered like the Blues did last season.

If they can gain some kind of parity though, I fancy the Scarlets midfield to get on top. Priestland, Davies and Williams are all better than their counterparts, and North causes havock, even on his bad days. Of course, with Ashton and Foden, Northampton have some flair aswell.

I'm hoping for a good game, but I am a little worried that the Scarlets' pack simply won't be able to live with their opposition.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Didn't the Blues coach say something similar last year?
Was going on about how Saints illegally scrum blah blah blah we'll target their weaknesses blah blah blah then Blues got battered and he shut up

Think Gatland is having too much of an effect on other coaches

 

[Draggs]

Think Gatland is having too much of an effect on other coaches

Yeah, winning is an odd thing

 

[TRF_Olyy]

One too many 'N's, and you're missing a 'H' there too

 

[scarlets-fan]

Rhys Thomas does have a big job on his hands, but also Gareth Davies. It's all on him to get the ball to the backs, if he doesn't we might get a hammering.

 

[Saintjay]

Yeah, winning is an odd thing

It is for Gatland, RWC played 7 lost 3, just over a 50% win ratio, take that into the 6N's youre doomed

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Wow. Opening minutes aren't Nhamptons friend, great try though.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

C'mon Scarlets!

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Go Scarlets!!! Man, Saints are not the team they were last season...

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Is Wilson playing 8 for saints? Great work at the breakdown from him. And that was very offisde at the second try

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

in fact, 3 things there. 1: offside at kickoff. 2: he pushed the ball forward with his hand. 3) shingler was ahead of the guy who had pushed it forward...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

4. The ref put his arm in the air and blew his whistle

That's all that matters at the end of the day

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

What the hell happened to Priestland this Summer he's a machine best 10 in Europe, along with Sexton, but he can play for his Country too.