Greatest World XV Ever 'Past and Present'

[big ginger 8]

^ well yes, anything from then on (and before this point actually) is just stating the obvious. It's just a hilarious concept to imagine a team that doesn't "respect" Lomu :lol:. Like, "nah, sorry, we're THAT good...don't care much for Lomu really..."

Back on to the point: clearly he's a lock for one of the wingers position for the GOAT XV.

Hey, can I stir that old crap again:
how many believe McCaw is the most efficient no.7 ? How unanimous is it ? Seems completely unanimous...not just on this forum, like, everywhere.
What place does Pocock have as an all-time no.6 ?

Pocock is a 7...

 

[Tony Manx]

how many believe McCaw is the most efficient no.7 ? ?

Please could somebody put up an alternative 7 to young Richie as being a better no 7 of all time?

With my poor memory caused through old age and enormous amounts of cheap red wine and other alcoholic beverages over many years cannot think of one..............................

 

[big ginger 8]

Please could somebody put up an alternative 7 to young Richie as being a better no 7 of all time?

With my poor memory caused through old age and enormous amounts of cheap red wine and other alcoholic beverages over many years cannot think of one..............................

Michael Jones, Fergus Slattery, George Smith and Finaly Calder to throw some names out there.

 

[psychic duck]

Please could somebody put up an alternative 7 to young Richie as being a better no 7 of all time?

With my poor memory caused through old age and enormous amounts of cheap red wine and other alcoholic beverages over many years cannot think of one..............................

George Smith is for me on a level with McCaw. Pocock has potential to be a great if he can stay fit and achieve it.

 

[Tony Manx]

Michael Jones, Fergus Slattery, George Smith and Finaly Calder to throw some names out there.

George Smith is for me on a level with McCaw. Pocock has potential to be a great if he can stay fit and achieve it.

Not for me .....all greats in their own right (although Calder would not have been a name on the tip of my tongue) and watched them all over the years (mostly on TV), and Skrela, Slattery and Winterbottom were my favourites for many, many years, but still think McCaw....and hate to say it!!!.....has the beating of each of them overall to the no 7 shirt in the greatest team ever but it is only my opinion for what it is worth!

 

[Zed]

Cullen is possibly my favourite player of all time - but it was his fault. He got stepped. You can't blame Lomu for missing Chester when Lomu covered someone else in the line. He wasn't the best defender (in the sense that his positioning and urgency sometimes let him down) but that was a poor example - otherwise it's everyone in the teams fault for not tracking back fast enough...If Lomu was the last outside defender you may have more of a point, but he wasn't.

Sifplay is on the money -

Cullen had no choice. He was running flat out to get Chester and my gran could have stepped him, you can't suddenly stop or change direction when you're going that quick and someone steps you. Lomu f*cked up in this instance in that he should have stayed on his man - Chester Williams. Cullen was further infield and better placed to tackle the players Lomu initially went for, instead Lomu got sucked in and Cullen's work was cut out for him trying to get to the wing. Fullback takes last man outside of the 22 (usually), inside and it's man on man.

 

[Big Ewis]

Pocock is a 7...

hmmm...

EDIT: man, the work this man does....
haven't seen any of him in so long...so he's not playing in the 4N again, is he ?...ffs...



I dunno, his defense and ability to single-handedly alter breakdown sequences...doesn't he deserve a spot up there ? I know there are terrific flankers and all but...I dunno.

 

[sifplay]

George Smith is for me on a level with McCaw. Pocock has potential to be a great if he can stay fit and achieve it.

I am sorry but todays flankers got it soft and are nowhere near the guys like Michael Jones, Rob Louw, Josh Kronfeldt, Neil Back etc etc. Ask one self the following. How effective would they have been when rucking wasn't punished by a suspension? You lay on the wrong side or put your hands where it doesn't belong and you get a size 11 boot and tiger stripes. A back line player would not dare to come and join a rug like the you get today. Probably that is why the midfield is so clogged up as well

 

[sifplay]

^ well yes, anything from then on (and before this point actually) is just stating the obvious. It's just a hilarious concept to imagine a team that doesn't "respect" Lomu :lol:. Like, "nah, sorry, we're THAT good...don't care much for Lomu really..."

Back on to the point: clearly he's a lock for one of the wingers position for the GOAT XV.

Hey, can I stir that old crap again:
how many believe McCaw is the most efficient no.7 ? How unanimous is it ? Seems completely unanimous...not just on this forum, like, everywhere.
What place does Pocock have as an all-time no.6 ?

Depends which country you are referring to as SA 6 is others 7 vice versa

 

[Big Ewis]

I must say, based on all the matches+clips etc... I've seen from McCaw, he does seem a little overrated. Before anybody gets a raging hard-on...well, on...I'm saying this with zero bias. I neither like nor dislike the guy. He's tough and all, plays his role but...nobody can deny the dirtiness of the guy just all-around and consistently, and as fans themselves admit it, not the biggest, not the fastest ("but the best", is how the finish it off).
With aaaaaaaall the flankers out there these days, and in the past (some I've never even heard of), McCaw is really THE best no. 7 ?

I'm just hoping for some honest, un-biased replies here. That's why I signed up on a forum rather than read YT comments...anybody has convincing arguments about why it's unanimous he's the best ? I'm all ears (well, eyes actually) but I need smt to finally convince me. Something significant and substantial, not a poem, but just, good solid arguments.
I see the guy's quality, but apparently not all of it. Or, I'm right, and there ISN'T that much to him and he's overrated, despite being an excellent flanker nonetheless.

 

[psychic duck]

I must say, based on all the matches+clips etc... I've seen from McCaw, he does seem a little overrated. Before anybody gets a raging hard-on...well, on...I'm saying this with zero bias. I neither like nor dislike the guy. He's tough and all, plays his role but...nobody can deny the dirtiness of the guy just all-around and consistently, and as fans themselves admit it, not the biggest, not the fastest ("but the best", is how the finish it off).
With aaaaaaaall the flankers out there these days, and in the past (some I've never even heard of), McCaw is really THE best no. 7 ?

I'm just hoping for some honest, un-biased replies here. That's why I signed up on a forum rather than read YT comments...anybody has convincing arguments about why it's unanimous he's the best ? I'm all ears (well, eyes actually) but I need smt to finally convince me. Something significant and substantial, not a poem, but just, good solid arguments.
I see the guy's quality, but apparently not all of it. Or, I'm right, and there ISN'T that much to him and he's overrated, despite being an excellent flanker nonetheless.

I would rate George Smith, David Pocock (who completely outplayed Warburton last June) and Neil Back at their best are on a level with him.

George Smith actually outplayed McCaw and got the better of him in the 2003 RWC semi final (Dusautoir also has had a knack of doing well up against him and got the better of him in both the 2007 and 2011 RWC matches also interestingly), and they had many battles over the years. McCaw certainly isn't indisputably the best of the pro era as some make out. He is in the group of the greatest, but on a level with the others not far ahead.

 

[nickdnz]

I would rate George Smith, David Pocock (who completely outplayed Warburton last June) and Neil Back at their best are on a level with him.

George Smith actually outplayed McCaw and got the better of him in the 2003 RWC semi final (Dusautoir also has had a knack of doing well up against him and got the better of him in both the 2007 and 2011 RWC matches also interestingly), and they had many battles over the years. McCaw certainly isn't indisputably the best of the pro era as some make out. He is in the group of the greatest, but on a level with the others not far ahead.

I tend to disagree. No other openside has been as consistently world class as Richie McCaw, and only Heinrich Brussouw has a winning record against him. Keeping in mind he captained a team to a World Cup victory, is NZ's most capped player of all time, most NZ matches as captain, 3 time IRB Player of the Year (whether everyone agrees or not) + all the millions of indiivual success he's had in domestic and super rugby...

I like George Smith, would rate him as the recond best openside of the decade - but no one else even comes close. Sadly McCaw's best days are now probably behind him - but from 2004-2008 or so he was a machine.

 

[sifplay]

I tend to disagree. No other openside has been as consistently world class as Richie McCaw, and only Heinrich Brussouw has a winning record against him. Keeping in mind he captained a team to a World Cup victory, is NZ's most capped player of all time, most NZ matches as captain, 3 time IRB Player of the Year (whether everyone agrees or not) + all the millions of indiivual success he's had in domestic and super rugby...

I like George Smith, would rate him as the recond best openside of the decade - but no one else even comes close. Sadly McCaw's best days are now probably behind him - but from 2004-2008 or so he was a machine.

you forgot the most punched as well...
Maybe because they play more rugby these days than past All Blacks and that he is the best of the best of cheaters. When I say cheaters I mean flankers of the modern era because that is what they do these days. See what rules you can break on purpose and get away with. Everything is made so much easier when they took rucking away as the fear of getting trampled on is not there anymore. I bet you almost the same time as some cheaters start to rise.

 

[Big Ewis]

I would rate George Smith, David Pocock (who completely outplayed Warburton last June) and Neil Back at their best are on a level with him.

George Smith actually outplayed McCaw and got the better of him in the 2003 RWC semi final (Dusautoir also has had a knack of doing well up against him and got the better of him in both the 2007 and 2011 RWC matches also interestingly), and they had many battles over the years. McCaw certainly isn't indisputably the best of the pro era as some make out. He is in the group of the greatest, but on a level with the others not far ahead.

Well that's specific, and thx for the input, but you know what I mean when I say that generally speaking he doesn't come through (to me) as unanimously THA BEST. Like, you watch Dan Carter at FH and it's obvious he's hands down way past any competition. With McCaw, I'm almost a little surprised with the praise and definitely SHOCKED with how many ppl won't even hesitate to say he's the best ever. And that's some serious assessment. I mean he gets player of the year like it's bread n butter.
I understand he's a backbone to the best side in the world. I understand the amount of work he puts into the matches. He's strong, can finish off a play and score when his team is within a few meters of the try line with force. He's a fine defender, good in the rucks - but he's also extremely crafty, gets away with a ton of **** and by no means is *impressive*. He gets the job done, for sure, unimpressively but surely - but with all the other more athletic and defensively more gifted guys I mean...
Like, if I had to pick a team to save my life, I'd go with Pocock at 7. I haven't seen McCaw put in THAT kind of performance in the rucks and on defense...

Anyone think this is wrong ? What am I missing here about McCaw ?

 

[nickdnz]

Well that's specific, and thx for the input, but you know what I mean when I say that generally speaking he doesn't come through (to me) as unanimously THA BEST. Like, you watch Dan Carter at FH and it's obvious he's hands down way past any competition. With McCaw, I'm almost a little surprised with the praise and definitely SHOCKED with how many ppl won't even hesitate to say he's the best ever. And that's some serious assessment. I mean he gets player of the year like it's bread n butter.
I understand he's a backbone to the best side in the world. I understand the amount of work he puts into the matches. He's strong, can finish off a play and score when his team is within a few meters of the try line with force. He's a fine defender, good in the rucks - but he's also extremely crafty, gets away with a ton of **** and by no means is *impressive*. He gets the job done, for sure, unimpressively but surely - but with all the other more athletic and defensively more gifted guys I mean...
Like, if I had to pick a team to save my life, I'd go with Pocock at 7. I haven't seen McCaw put in THAT kind of performance in the rucks and on defense...

Anyone think this is wrong ? What am I missing here about McCaw ?

Check out 11:13.

 

[Big Ewis]

^ I appreciate a reply, but I mean that's a neat trick, it really is, but I dunno I'm waiting for a big reason to start thinking he's rated just the way he should be/isn't overrated. Again, I understand the commitment on defense and all but I've seen more impressive defense and breakdown action from a number of flankers who can do it quite consistently...surely I'm missing something, or he just IS overrated, bottom line.

EDIT:

like, I can only imagine the crazy childish arguments this must've created between kiwis and Ozzies throughout the years, but what would you say are the main reasons McCaw is a better flanker than Pocock for e.g. ? Not saying I think Pocock's better, but just the main points so I can clearly see whether I've in deed missed smt the whole time, or whether I'm on par with reality.

 

[O'Panta]

01. Martin Castrogiovanni
02. Andrew Hore
03. John Hayes
04. Donncha O'Callaghan
05. Paul O'Connell
06. Stephen Ferris
07. Richie McCaw
08. Jamie Heaslip
09. George Gregan
10. Ronan O'Gara
11. Bryan Habana
12. Tana Umaga
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Jason Robinson

 

[big ginger 8]

Ah love it.

 

[nickdnz]

01. Martin Castrogiovanni
02. Andrew Hore
03. John Hayes
04. Donncha O'Callaghan
05. Paul O'Connell
06. Stephen Ferris
07. Richie McCaw
08. Jamie Heaslip
09. George Gregan
10. Ronan O'Gara
11. Bryan Habana
12. Tana Umaga
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Jason Robinson

If they are in te best XV ever, Ireland has reeeeaaaalllly under achieved. Only O'Driscoll seems like a decent pick in my opinion..

 

[Feicarsinn]

If they are in te best XV ever, Ireland has reeeeaaaalllly under achieved. Only O'Driscoll seems like a decent pick in my opinion..