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Greatest World XV Ever 'Past and Present'

Not a "greatest 15 ever" but a team of some my favourite players.

1. Olo Brown
2. Sean Fitzpatrick
3. Carl Hayman
4. John Eales
5. Victor Matfield
6. Michael Jones
7. Richie McCaw
8. Zinzan Brooke
9. George Gregan
10. Carlos Spencer
11. Jonah Lomu
12. Elton Flatley
13. Jamie Roberts
14. Rupeni Caucaunibuca
15. Christian Cullen

Matfield and Eales are same type of lock. Won't work. You need a ruck cleaner like Johnson, Botha etc etc
 
Gregan is famous for flipping Lomu at full speed...

he is famous for popping the ball out of Wilsons hand which won them the Bledisloe cup. I remember the 1999 Cup Tim Horan was at his best he ran through the whole Springbok defense only to come to Joost who smashed him.

Anyways how about this tackle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2dozu9rQ7c
 
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he is famous for popping the ball out of Wilsons hand which won them the Bledisloe cup. I remember the 1999 Cup Tim Horan was at his best he ran through the whole Springbok defense only to come to Joost who smashed him.

Anyways how about this tackle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2dozu9rQ7c

No Gregan is famous for that tackle because it was like his first game or something. He is also famous for taking Lomu's legs out non stop.
 
Absolutely agree, it's far, far too easy and "trendy" an argument to just merely dismiss Lomu as a giant among boys. Again, it was just yesterday he was bulldozing over every side's defenders, not the 60's. And even at the end of his career, he's doing that to England on that vid...it's fkn brutal. Fkn brutal. There's no way the Top World XV ever doesn't include Lomu at the wing, you're just kidding yourself if you don't put him there.

Maybe we South Africans tend to dismiss Lomu because he didn't carve us up like other teams. I have a much bigger fear for players like Mortlock, Wilson, Larkham etc who were super-effective against SA sides. Lomu never scored one single try against a Bok team. I tend to think of Lomu as a player that just takes forever to turn around if you put a kick over his head- not something you want in a winger.
 
^ didn't know that fact, but it's completely relative. The fact that he destroyed every other single side but happened to have had mediocre performances against just one particular team, partially a coincidence partially I'd imagine good defensive strategy focused on him...that's just a fun rugby fact, an impressive one but just one little aspect in Lomu's monstrous career.
 
No Gregan is famous for that tackle because it was like his first game or something. He is also famous for taking Lomu's legs out non stop.

No. Lomu ran over Latham who slowed him down where Gregan came from behind a grabbed a offloading Lomu's jersey for Alitini to score. Hardly facing Lomu rushing through a hole in midfield at pace head on and bringing him down... Like Joost did.

Gregan
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Joost
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Love the fact you are all bigging up players reps just because they managed to stop Lomu. Shows what a class act he was.
 
Love the fact you are all bigging up players reps just because they managed to stop Lomu. Shows what a class act he was.

he was a class act no doubt about that. The guy single handedly destroyed teams.
 
You mean the same Lomu who got cut down every single time against Ben Tune? one of the only players to have never missed a tackle on him?

He might've tackled Lomu (which is a good tackle in anyones book) but I dont think 'Go you good thing Ben' ever tackled Lomu the way Lomu smashed him in yoes video underneath..I think its the 3rd tackle NZ vs AUS..

just foh fun:



Lomu might've have not had big games against the 'Boks but with all respect I have seen him bulldoze South African players. Theres one where hes playing for the ABs against the 'Boks and he displays a rare demonstration where a winger bowls over a international level prop, I think thats just the beginning. Then theres the Super Rugby where again he bulldozes over South African teams. The 'Boks just looked after Lomu, similar to what tallshort was saying, when you put a lot of focus on one man ONE MAN, it shows the respect that team has for the man.
 
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^ didn't know that fact, but it's completely relative. The fact that he destroyed every other single side but happened to have had mediocre performances against just one particular team, partially a coincidence partially I'd imagine good defensive strategy focused on him...that's just a fun rugby fact, an impressive one but just one little aspect in Lomu's monstrous career.

Just because he didn't score against a particular team didn't necessarily mean he wasn't effective. As the big hit you vs SA showed, and of course the Boks focusing on him just opened up space for others. Anyway against South Africa he could still gain metres and go past the gainline and put some Boks on their behind, just like he did against other sides, just didn't score.

pwud.gif


Lomu didn't score against Wales either, but that doesn't mean he wasn't effective ...

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Just love it how he smashed Chester here
chester.gif

He didn't miss that tackle, that was Cullen's fault. He just missed a one on one there, surprisingly as Cullen was a very good defender.
 
Just because he didn't score against a particular team didn't necessarily mean he wasn't effective. As the big hit you vs SA showed, and of course the Boks focusing on him just opened up space for others. Anyway against South Africa he could still gain metres and go past the gainline and put some Boks on their behind, just like he did against other sides, just didn't score.

pwud.gif


Lomu didn't score against Wales either, but that doesn't mean he wasn't effective ...

<iframe width="400" height="225" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cGz3R6byk7g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>



He didn't miss that tackle, that was Cullen's fault. He just missed a one on one there, surprisingly as Cullen was a very good defender.

You miss the point. No player is perfect. The best ones have their faults. The one for Lomu was not his defense front on. Imgaine a car driving against a truck head on. Smash. Lomu had no problem doing that thanks to his size and meeting a guy who just received a hospital pass well you can imagine the frog and the sledgehammer lab experiment.

What they meant with Lomu's defense was the fact that he is a bit lazy tracking back to cover or once the play went past him. No it was not Cullens fault.

First off all they use the drift defense Cullen the sweeper. Because Chester was not the fastest Lomu can give him the outside and just drift to close him down. Habana and JP Pietersen do that a lot. But on that occasion he was caught in two minds. He should have drifted.

But the main point is of the lack of effort once Chester stepped Cullen. You will not see Lomu running back and make a last ditch tackle. And that was what people went on about. But he was not in the team for his defense.

Wales have never beaten NZ so can't really say who was effective or not and of course played a lot less games vs NZ. As a Saffer of course Lomu had a impact. Super Rugby he monstered us
lomu3.gif


I laugh everytime I see that one. Poor old Percy!
 
No it was not Cullens fault.

First off all they use the drift defense Cullen the sweeper. Because Chester was not the fastest Lomu can give him the outside and just drift to close him down. Habana and JP Pietersen do that a lot. But on that occasion he was caught in two minds. He should have drifted.

But the main point is of the lack of effort once Chester stepped Cullen. You will not see Lomu running back and make a last ditch tackle. And that was what people went on about. But he was not in the team for his defense.

Wales have never beaten NZ so can't really say who was effective or not and of course played a lot less games vs NZ. As a Saffer of course Lomu had a impact. Super Rugby he monstered us
lomu3.gif


I laugh everytime I see that one. Poor old Percy!

Cullen is possibly my favourite player of all time - but it was his fault. He got stepped. You can't blame Lomu for missing Chester when Lomu covered someone else in the line. He wasn't the best defender (in the sense that his positioning and urgency sometimes let him down) but that was a poor example - otherwise it's everyone in the teams fault for not tracking back fast enough...If Lomu was the last outside defender you may have more of a point, but he wasn't.

Wales have beaten New Zealand. Not since 1953 mind you, but still. It's ridiculious to say you don't know how effective he was cause Wales rarely lose anyway. That means no one can ever have a good game against Wales if your from New Zealand - because Wales would probably have lost anyway...
 
Cullen is possibly my favourite player of all time - but it was his fault. He got stepped. You can't blame Lomu for missing Chester when Lomu covered someone else in the line. He wasn't the best defender (in the sense that his positioning and urgency sometimes let him down) but that was a poor example - otherwise it's everyone in the teams fault for not tracking back fast enough...If Lomu was the last outside defender you may have more of a point, but he wasn't.

Wales have beaten New Zealand. Not since 1953 mind you, but still. It's ridiculious to say you don't know how effective he was cause Wales rarely lose anyway. That means no one can ever have a good game against Wales if your from New Zealand - because Wales would probably have lost anyway...
I think you missed the point as well. Its not who's fault it was for the try but just a example of Jonah's lazy back tracking.

I don't want to argue who's fault it but for interest sake look at the video again. But do not make the mistake most make and that is ball watching. Forget about Chester and his run and look for off the ball Sprinkbok runners. You will note what placed Lomu in 2 minds and how many guys Cullen were actually facing to stop that try.This in-to-out defence allows teams to recover. If you can hold the attacker and make him think, something the likes of Conrad Smith or the Stormers are particularly good at, then it buys time for others to get across and help out.

For Lomu against Wales. 3 games vs 12 of SA? Really huge difference.

Talking about teams that have beaten the AB. I think its a great honor to manage that and especially in SA it was a honor just facing them. That is what made the tours and test series so special. Especially for home unions to face NZ which was one of the highlights of NZ tours. Something lost in the modern day and something my kids will not experience sadly.

But coming to my point my province and the team I supported since I was 4 or 5 years old Western Province has done that no South African team has ever been able to match is the double victories over the All Blacks the first being (10-3) played on the 15th of August 1928 and again (12-11) on the 16th of July 1976, whilst several countries have never been able to beat the All Black team, Province managed this feat.

Kirkpatrick on left played in his 100th game in an All Black jersey.
76wptanenorton45.jpg

76wppope44.jpg
Chris Pope scoring the winning try in 76.

McLean wrote this about the game

Morné du Plessis had to be mad. Every time the All Blacks were penalized, and God knows that was often, he called Robbie Blair to take the kick. Every time Blair missed. Once, from only 16 meters and directly in front, he only managed to strike an upright.

So the time dragged on and with 19 minutes to play the All Blacks led 11-0. Not a change now, for Western Province to repeat that glorious deed against Maurice Brownlie's All Blacks of 1928 when, in the week before the final international, the famous "Umbrella test" at Newlands, they won decisively by 10 to 3.

Even after a most dubious penalty call against Stewart had been turned into a try by Bossie Clarke and Blair goaled, the game still seemed set for the All Blacks. After all, didn't Blair next miss a 43 m attempt at goal, his eight penalty for the game, and so leave the All Blacks sitting on a five-point lead with seven minutes to play?

Dawie Snyman, not quite the lightning genius of his reputation, picked-up a ball missed by Grant Batty, in the 79th minute and side stepped up the right hand touch line. When he was checked, du Plessis, a huge, towering figure, moved down the field like a runaway Eifel Tower. The All Blacks' defence was in agony. First-line and cover-defenders rushed across field. At the right moment, Du Plessis unloaded; and Pope, sniffing the tryline ahead, crashed over it by the corner-flag as 46 000 spectators went mad.

The moment, now, of truth, gospel truth for Robbie Blair. Certainly, because he was left-footed, this kick from the right flank naturally favoured his left-to-right flight. Still, hadn't he missed all those kicks beforehand? Hadn't he shown out a shaky nerve for all to see? By the law of averages, no change, now, for the All Blacks to lose.

But the moment the ball was struck, you knew it was a goal. Up in the air, sky-high, sky-high, the kick soared. The ball cleaved the uprights dead centre. Province were ahead, 12 to 11.

Other interesting fact not many knew is that Rhodesia today called Zimbabwe have beaten the AB once! Some teams still struggle today to do it but they have that honor.
 
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oh yeah, Sam Owen and psychic, you're right of course, nobody actually doubts that ANY TEAM would close down on Lomu as best they could.
Imagining a side; any side any era any planet; that doesn't respect Lomu is pure fiction, and beyond. Still the fact he never did score against SA, and it's not like he's played them just twice ever; is an interesting stat.

And I know nothing about SA'cans, but I can imagine they (fans, rugby scene) respected Lomu just as much as any other Rugby scene in the world...

There's a lot of talk about trying to downplay/downgrade Lomu anytime he's mentioned. It's obviously that there's a complex there...who the fk doubts Lomu's capabilities, just who the fk ?...
guy takes ball, runs, ppl fall over around him, guy scores try...what d'u want ?!
 
oh yeah, Sam Owen and psychic, you're right of course, nobody actually doubts that ANY TEAM would close down on Lomu as best they could.
Imagining a side; any side any era any planet; that doesn't respect Lomu is pure fiction, and beyond. Still the fact he never did score against SA, and it's not like he's played them just twice ever; is an interesting stat.

And I know nothing about SA'cans, but I can imagine they (fans, rugby scene) respected Lomu just as much as any other Rugby scene in the world...

There's a lot of talk about trying to downplay/downgrade Lomu anytime he's mentioned. It's obviously that there's a complex there...who the fk doubts Lomu's capabilities, just who the fk ?...
guy takes ball, runs, ppl fall over around him, guy scores try...what d'u want ?!
In 95 we use the blitz defense to close down the Kiwi's sa fast as possible. They did use Lomu as a decoy at times which were effective at times and Small was caught out a couple of times but they did scramble back very well.

As a Saffer we always respected the guy and we did not hate him at all. After all the guy married a Saffer woman and he ran over Michael Catt who is hated more than anything else here. He never scored but he did commit 3 or 4 defenders for others to score. The 55 - 35 game where we ended up with 14 men comes to mind.
 
^ well yes, anything from then on (and before this point actually) is just stating the obvious. It's just a hilarious concept to imagine a team that doesn't "respect" Lomu :lol:. Like, "nah, sorry, we're THAT good...don't care much for Lomu really..."

Back on to the point: clearly he's a lock for one of the wingers position for the GOAT XV.

Hey, can I stir that old crap again:
how many believe McCaw is the most efficient no.7 ? How unanimous is it ? Seems completely unanimous...not just on this forum, like, everywhere.
What place does Pocock have as an all-time no.6 ?
 

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