Greatest World XV Ever 'Past and Present'

[-InvIctus-]

OFF TOPIC

"-InvIctus-"

Its a bit off stealing someone else's username by making minor changes (adding preceding & following dashes).

The "Real" Invictus is a user who joined about six years ago (around the same time as me)

Oh. I'm sorry, but i wrote it like that straight away because that's the way I write my tag....

 

[Larksea]

If I was to pick any players in history in their prime, to play today's game, it would be -

1. Os du Randt - Won 2 RWC medals 12 years a part. Was a very good scrummager and a real character of the Bok team.
2. Keith Wood - Best Forward out of Ireland. Lead from the front.
3. Carl Hayman - Best scrummager of the modern game. Absolute machine.
4. John Eales - The novelty of a lock goal kicking wore off quick, but he won 2 RWC medals, and captained the Wallabies to one of them, so he gets this spot.
5. Victory Matfield - Best lineout opperator in the modern game.
6. Jerry Collins - Greatest hitter in world rugby. Richard Hill and Michael Jones were different types of players, but Jerry Collins will always be the greatest hitter and hard man in rugby history.
7. Richie McCaw - Most capped All Black and AB captain, most influential openside in history.
8. Zinzan Brooke - Defines what the modern loose forward should be. All the skills of a back with the toughness of a forward.
9. George Gregan - 139 test caps. Most annoying **** in rugby history. Best halfback.
10. Daniel Carter - Highest test point scorer. Most tries for a fly half. Averages most points for a Fly half. Andrew Mehrtens, John Barry and Grant Fox have all said they think he's the best, and I agree.
11. Jonah Lomu - No winger was more influential on his day. Never has a 120kg guy run so quickly. Absolute machine.
12. Tana Umaga - Because BOD couldn't play 12. Hard hitter, great passer, great captain, great try scorer. Did it all.
13. Brian O'Driscol - Very skilled player and a good captain. Probably Ireland's best ever back.
14. Jeff Wilson - Really hard choice. People love Campese, and yes he's scored the most tries for a 1st tier country, but he did it in 101 caps. Had Lomu, Cullen, Howlett, Williams and Rokocoko played as many tests, they would have prabably scored more. Wilson scored 44 test tries in 60 tests, while setting up many of Cullen's and Lomu's tries. He had all the skills.
15. Christian Cullen - No player could do what he could do. 46 tries in 58 tests. Highest Tri Nations try scorer. He was brilliant, and he finished at only 26 years old, imagine if he played a few more years injury free.

16. Sean Fitzpatrick - Very good captain. John Smit comes close, but I'd give it to Fitzy.
17. Olo Brown - Pillar of consistancy.
18. Martin Johnson - Captained England to win the RWC, and did it leading from the front
19. Michael Jones - Toss up between him and Richard Hill. Both had an amazing work rate and a real grunt attitude, but Jones was the better ball carrier.
20. Matt Dawson - Was the creativity behind the Wilkinson. I love Kelleher, Pichot and Marshall, but Dawson was the second best scrum half in my opinion.
21. Andrew Mehrtens - Avarages the second most points for a fly half. best passer and kicker I've ever seen. Could run a game like a general and is a real character. 70 caps and 967 test points (more than Stephen Jones and Percy Montgomery has got in 101 caps and 102!)
22. Joe Rokocoko - Not the highest point scorer, and the longer he plays, perhaps the less his legacy will last. But 17 tries in a season, most of which were amazing. Was New Zealand's go to man, and in his prime was something to behold. Howlett, Williams, Campese, Underwood have scored more, but Rokocoko's tries were all ludacris.

People like George Nepia, Collin Meads, John Barry etc have all been ruled out. Yes they were good for the time, but the game is professional now, and the rules have changed. Collin Meads is regarded in NZ as the godfather of rugby, but for a lock he was only 6'2''. I'm taller than him. Ian Jones, Robin Brooke, Martin Johnson and John Eales all had to adapt to lifters in lineouts. They're more worthy in my mind than lock from 1960's, and they'd be better suited for todays game. Campese, Kirwan, Frasier, Stu Wilson were great wings for their time, but if you watch them in todays game, they'd get absolutely burned by players like Habana, Rokocoko and Ngwenya. The game has changed, and you can't realistically predict the potential of past players, and compare them to todays. It wasn't uncommon for a flanker test flanker to be 80kgs as early as 30 years ago. Props would be considered huge at 100kgs 50 years ago. Gareth Edwards was a very good halfback (Sid Going was better), but would he be as good today? Who knows? The role of the Halfback has changed. George Gregan was criticized early in his career for stepping away from the ruck before delivering to the fly half. That has now lead to fly halfs being expected to play a sniping role around the fringes, as apposed to just being crisp passers.

Anyway, that is why I've just chosen players from 95+, as the game and positions have changed in the professional era, to an extent we can't judge accurately on players prior to that.

great list

Mehrtens used to blow my mind with what he could do.

I remember one game he had a penalty kick for touch inside his own 22 and he took it quickley and unleashed a crazy punt that bounced out into touch well into the opposition 22 but the ref called it back maybe because it was not from the mark. At that point the ref made some comment like "wow, I bet you can't do that again" so what happens?... with the popsition team set this time he kicks it past the set opposition and bounces the ball out in their 22 AGAIN. Only time I've see a ref in shock from amazement on the field.

That makes him pretty unique because I don't think anyone else could ever do that.

Actually one of the most memorable things I've seen in a game of rugby. Dont ask me what game it was or even who the opposition were because it's the only thing I remember from the game

 

[Sam Brown]

1-Tendai "Beast" Mtawarira
2-Andrew Hore
3-Jan Nathaniel du Plessis
4-Bakkies Botha
5-Victor Matfeild (C)
6-Shulk Burger
7-Riche Mcaw
8-Jerry Collins
9-George Gregan
10-Andrew Mertins
11-Lote Tuqiri
12-Danial Carter
13-Tana Umaga
14-Bryan Habana
15-Chris Latham
16-Anton Oliver
17-Greg Sommerville
18-Robbin Brook
19-Georg Smith
20-Byron Kelleher
21-Sonny Bill Williams
22-Jona Lomu
Coach-Jake White

I made this team on rugby challenge 2. I had a hard time twicking there skills/attribute points to closely resemble there actuall abillities. Ball winners and ball runners with the abitlity to run it wide is what Iv gone for as well as combinations. Sure there may be better players but I reckon this is the team to beat all teams

 

[Sam Brown]

By the way. I also took into account rule changes. Lifters, coming in from the gate. I'ld say this team could play in any era

 

[JacHanson]

Definatly disagree with most of this!
1. Leonard
2. Fitzpatrick
3. Tom Smith (sco)
4. Matfield
5. Martin Johnson
6. Francois Pienaar (George Smith)
7. Mcaw
8. Dallaglio
9. Gareth Edwards
10. Jonny
11. Lomu without a doubt
12. Phillippe Sellar
13. BOD
14. Jason Robinson
15. Serge Blanco
16. Os Du randt
17. Keith Wood
18. Andrew Sheridan (would take hayman to pieces and was strongest man in world rugby)
19. John E
20. ZinZan
21. Gregan
22. Carter (Bennett)
23. Campese

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Tom Smith was a loose head prop. I don't think he ever played on the tight head side; certainly not for the Lions or Scotland.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

1: Os du Ran
2: Keith Wood
3: Carl Hayman
4: Chris Jack
5: Victor Matfield
6: Todd Blackadder
7: Richie McCaw
8: Lawrence Dallaglio
9: Gareth Edwards
10: Andrew Mertins
11: Jonah Lomu
12: Brian Lima
13: Brian O'Driscoll
14: David Campese
15: Serge Blanco

i will though give a mention to Gavin Hastings definitely one off the lions and scotlands greatest fullbacks.

 

[SimonG]

I find it much harder to choose anyone in an all time World XV in Rugby as opposed to an all time best XI in football as there are almost no guaranteed starters in Rugby. Gareth Edwards is possibly the closest thing to a certainty as you can get but that's about it. Rugby is that bit less individualistic so its harder to stand out. What also makes it hard is the sport is so different now to just 20 years ago. Martin Johnson and Victor Matfield would dwarf Colin Meads. It would be a mismatch. You would best be picking separate teams...amateur era, pro era.

My personal choice of backs would be, Edwards, Carter, Campese, Sella, O'Driscoll, Lomu, JPR Williams

Van Der Westhuizen would be first reserve.

 

[Big Ewis]

God, I just spent half an hour reading up on this thread...thanks for the uh BUMP there.

 

[sharkfan]

Forget about Philippe Sella, forget about Brian O' Driscoll. If you never heard of a guy called Danie Gerber, then look him up on youtube. Unfortunately due to isolation, he could not play that many games for the boks, but when he did play he tore the opposition defences into shreds. The NZ Cavaliers know all about him..lol! I will put him in my greatest all time fifteen

 

[Joe Goodman]

So close but maybe missing a couple...

Sir BOD
M. JOHNSON
C. CULLEN
J. ROBINSON
V. MATTFIELD Possibly?

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[Jack Reacher]

I think were all kidding ourselves picking players from before the 80's. Different game, different attitudes etc. Yes, we can't deny the legends of that era but even people around at that time usually only saw highlights or newspaper reports of matches. So I think to keep it straight forward its the professional era World XV plus the 80's;
1. Os Du Randt
2. Fitzpatrick
3. Haymen
4. Johnson
5. Matfield
6. M Jones
7. McCaw
8. Brooke
9. Gregan
10. Carter
11. Lomu
12. Horan
13. O'Driscoll
14. Campese
15. Cullen

 

[Imagine]

1. Os Du Randt
2. John Smit
3. Phil Vickery
4. Brad Thorn
5. Victor Matfield
6. Schalk Burger
7. Richie McCaw
8. Zinzan Brooke
9. Fourie du Preez
10. Jonny Wilkinson
11. Bryan Habana
12. Sonny Bill Williams
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Rupeni Caucaunibuca
15. Israel Folau

 

[Bull]

1. Os Du Randt
2. Fitzpatrick
3. Haymen
4. Johnson
5. Matfield
6. M Jones
7. McCaw
8. Brooke
9. Joost
10. Wilkinson
11. Lomu
12. Horan
13. O'Driscoll
14. Campese
15. Cullen

 

[Canuck]

First time posting here, this is probably how I would rate my all time XV of the professional era

1 Os du Randt
2 Sean Fitzpatrick
3 Paul Wallace (not really sure about this one, Hayman was so powerful when he play for the ABs, Vickery terrific in open play and Patricio Noriega was excellent at scrummaging)
4 Victor Matfield
5 John Eales (by just a notch over Martin Johnson)
6 Richard Hill (my heart tells me Andre Venter but I'm trying to ignore my SA bias)
7 Richie McCaw
8 Zinzan Brooke
9 Joost van der Westhuizen (edges Gregan and Fourie du Preez)
10 Dan Carter (had the running and passing ability of Larkham with the tackling and kicking of Wilkinson)
11 Jonah Lomu
12 Tim Horan
13 Brian O'Driscoll
14 Bryan Habana
15 Christian Cullen

And my greatest XV of the amateur era (happy to say that I've seen full matches of most of these guys thanks to youtube and ESPN)

1 Fran Cotton (played well at either side of the scrum)
2 Peter Wheeler
3 Graham Price
4 Colin Meads
5 Frik du Preez (Willie John McBride just misses out)
6 Theuns Stofberg (often forgotten about by those outside SA, a legend on the blindside who had the size and strength to play in the modern game)
7 Michael Jones (bridged the amateur and pro eras but his form in the early 90s was sublime)
8 Buck Shelford (a difficult choice over Morne du Plessis and Mervyn Davies)
9 Gareth Edwards
10 Hugo Porta
11 David Campese (his career ended in the professional era but I feel his risky style of play was better suited to the amateur game)
12 Mike Gibson
13 Danie Gerber (IMO a notch better than the fantastic Philippe Sella)
14 Ian Smith (played a very, very long time ago but a legend who's 24 tries for Scotland is still the standard)
15 Serge Blanco (thought about JPR for a while but decided on the Frenchman)

 

[Phil davies]

1. Faulkner
2. Windsor
3- price(despite what many belive on here the pontypool front row would easily deal with modern front row IMO as they were a unit an scrims were much harder in those days also Windsor was hard as nails!)
4. Eales( as they said Mr. nobody cos nobody perfect)
5. johnson(c)( a leader of men and a monster of a man)
6. Jerry collins( awesome tackler)
7. McCaw
8. Zinzan Brook

9. Gareth Edwards ( how anybody can leave him out is ludicrous is often voted as they greatest player of all time!)
10. Carter
11. Lomu( oh how I loved watching this man play)
12. Umanga
13. BOD
14. Shane Williams ( it baffles me how few are picking him he's te leading try scorer for a a top tier nation was an absolute magican and turned defenders inside out!)
15. JPR Williams what a player best defensive fullback ever IMO

so that's

6 welsh
6 New Zealanders
1 Irish , English and Autralian

 

[sharkfan]

1. Os Du Randt(Pieter Du Randt's nickname 'Os' is Afrikaans for OX. I don't think we have to figure out where he got his nickname from.)
2. Sean Fitzpatrick(Led from the front, became the first ever All Black captain to lead his side to a series win over the Boks in South Africa)
3. Jason Leonard(Most capped English player of all time)
4. Martin Johnson(Another captain leading by example, became the first ever English captain to lead his side to world cup glory)
5. Victor Matfield(Most capped Bok player of all time. Absolute genius in the line-outs)
6. Michael Jones(Legend in his time with the All Blacks during the late 80's early 90's)
7. Richie McCaw(Most capped All Black of all time and a real genius in stealing the ball from the opposition)
8. Zinzan Brooke(Show me another nr 8 that could kick a drop kick as well as he did, to seal the deal for the All Blacks in 1996. Otherwise a great player.)
9. Gareth Edwards(Cannot leave the Welsh legend out. Still regarded as the best player ever long after he retired from the game.)
10. Johnny Wilkinson(For all his brilliance Daniel Carter lacked one thing....the drop kick. Wilkinson was the full package)
11. Jonah Lomu(This guy was the talking point of every discussion on the streets, in the bar, around the barbecue, about how on earth to stop him. Never before has the game seen such a freak of nature)
12. Tim Horan(Always kept the opposition guessing on the attack, was a great defender and also quick)
13. Danie Gerber(Look him up on youtube, and you will be baffled at what he could do. It's a shame that he never could show his true potential on the international stage due to political reasons)
14. David Campese(Absolute magician on the attack, a very intelligent and skillful player.)
15. Christian Cullen(If you gave the man a inch of space, he was gone. The opposing players knew he was going to counter attack, and still they couldn't stop him!)

 

[KAPman]

My greatest 15:

15: Serge Blanco - Quite simply the most gifted full back to have ever played the game. Typified everything splendid about French rugby. Fantastic with ball in hand, great runner, great boot, solid under high balls. Great player to watch, always played with guile and freedom.
14: David Campese - Fantasic runner, lethal try scorer, and like Blanco played with such freedom and confidence, and with a bit more arrogance, which he mostly used in an advantagous way.
13: Brian O'Driscoll - Possibly the most complete centre ever to have played rugby i think, what seperates him from other greats like Phillipe Sella, Tana Umaga, Frank Bunce etc, was not only his ability as a 13 but also his fantasic work rate around the breakdowns, was like an extra flanker at times.
12: Tim Horan - Solid defender, fantasic runner with ball in hand, solid kicker and always exciting to watch whenever he was in space or managed to create space.
11: Julien Savea - Sorry Jonah Lomu fans, whilst Lomu was as every says 'A rugby freak', this guys Savea might be one of the most complete wingers ever to have played the game. Power, pace, good side step, and a better defender than Lomu was.
10: Dan Carter - Don't think there has been a more complete 10 ever to have played the game. Carter has everything in his locker when at his best. hope he can stay fit and get himself into for for this upcoming world cup.
9: Joost Van der Westuizen - The best sniping scrum half ever to have played the game, and possibly the best defensive one too. He had a great knack of tackling well above his weight, and when in possesion or the springboks on the break was lethal. Could create and score tries from almost anything. Upsetting the way MND has taken its toll on him now, but still mentality shows the strength and courage that helped make him a formidable force on the pitch.
1: Os du Randt - An absolute beast of a prop both as a ball carrier and a scrummager. Possibly the best loosehead scrummager of the mid to late 90s.
2: Keith Wood - Pips Sean Fitzpatrick to the best hooker birth. Wood was not just great at what he did in the tight, but was the best hooker in the loose I've ever seen. Rampaged around the field like there was no tomorrow, had a very handy boot when he needed to use it, don't see many hooker with the ability to kick the ball 60 metres, and with the pace he had.
3: Carl Hayman - the best tighthead scrummager of his generation, think it was silly of him to cut his all black career short to go to Newcastle in 2007, but wins the tighthead spot.
4: Martin Johnson - A candidate for greatest English forward of all time. colossal workrate, brutal ball carrying, good in the line-out and charismatic fantastic leadership johnson had them all.
5: Victor Matfield - As much as I'm a big John Eales fan, im gonna go for Victor Matfield because of his line-out play, the best lock forward I've ever seen both on offensive and defensive lineout ball.
6: Richard Hill - Fantasic forward he was, don't remember him ever having a bad game at 6 for England, and was immense at 7 in the 97 lions tour. Never flashy, did the forward donkey work, but was one of the best at it.
7: Richie McCaw - Rated the greatest All Black ever by many, and withoutu doubt the best openside I've ever seen, gets around the field superbly both as a ball carrying. and as a supporting runner, but without doubt his best abilties are at the breakdown where he is the biggest nuisance imaginable and though he does often push the boundaries of rules he does it very astutely.
8: Zinzan Brooke - Fantastic ball carrying 8, and along with that a great footballer, and a decent drop goal on him too.

 

[Lomu]

Firstly you can't put someone in a line up for greatest ever 15 if they've never reached their potential (Danie Gerber)
No mention of Grant Fox, Samoas Tuilagi, castrogiovanni, will genia, Michael lynagh, Gavin Hastings, ieuan Evans, JPR Williams, Francois pienaar, joost van der westhuizen, Gavin Henson??? Threw that last one in to annoy all home nations inc welsh...

- - - Updated - - -

I think the only player who can categorically be put into a world 15 without anyone in the room complaining would be Jonah Lomu. Still watch his clips now, what a talent.... Greatest player (in his position) of all time!

- - - Updated - - -

I think the only player who can categorically be put into a world 15 without anyone in the room complaining would be Jonah Lomu. Still watch his clips now, what a talent.... Greatest player (in his position) of all time!

- - - Updated - - -

Just seen above post, van der westhuizen check...

 

[goodNumber10]

Firstly you can't put someone in a line up for greatest ever 15 if they've never reached their potential (Danie Gerber)

I think the point with Gerber is that he wasn't allowed to for political reasons yet is still revered and was inducted in the the Hall of Fame, you don't' play 115 games for Eastern P without being special - he's hands down one of the best outside center I've ever seen play the game.

Interesting no one (recent) has included Meades, or McBride, or a bunch of other golden era players