Get your bets in for the All Black Squad for the june tests

[Sneaki]

It's a shame that Andre Taylor missed out. But I'm happy to see they've picked Savea instead of similar players like Gear and Guildford.

Generally though there are plenty of new players there which is good to see. Although guys like Barrett, Kerr-Barlow, Shields and L Whitelock might be there more for the experience than anything else.

People will complain that they didn't drop Williams, Weepu or Nonu but Nonu and Williams especially haven't really performed over the last few years in Super rugby. Nonu was great last year for the ABs considering how poor he was for the Hurricanes. Weepu most likely has to be there for his goal kicking, since I don't think they really want to have to play Carter at 12 to accommodate a goal kicking 10. Barrett can also play fullback and do the goal kicking which could be something to consider.

 

[Rhyer]

Ben Smith should have been dropped for Andre Taylor. Overall not bad. Luke Whitelock? He's done nothing all season, maybe they are just thinking of the future. I can't believe Tom Taylor wasn't selected as well, been the most accurate goal kicker.

 

[Rhyer]

He is not a good enough cheater. The refs spot him quickly doing something illegal in the ruck. Not good enough for NZ

It's alright. We understand that some players are too clean for you and don't like to go around head butting and eye gouging everyone.

 

[bobbilycious]

Ben Smith should have been dropped for Andre Taylor. Overall not bad. Luke Whitelock? He's done nothing all season, maybe they are just thinking of the future. I can't believe Tom Taylor wasn't selected as well, been the most accurate goal kicker.

Taylor might be a decent goal kicker, but at this early stage, he has done nothing else. You need to be more than just a goal kicker to make the All Blacks.

 

[admartian]

Taylor might be a decent goal kicker, but at this early stage, he has done nothing else. You need to be more than just a goal kicker to make the All Blacks.

This.

He's solid and could probably pitch in for the ABs if we had to. But Cruden and Barrett are the players to cultivate.

It's alright. We understand that some players are too clean for you and don't like to go around head butting and eye gouging everyone.

Yeah, I thought Taylor did enough as well.

 

[lance2010]

Squad got announced, article here (squad at the bottom of the article).
No Messam, what does it take for him to get another chance? :s

Messam's too short and is not really another option in the lineout his height works against him at International level.

 

[lance2010]

to be honest he probably needs to loose a couple of years, Hansen looks to be looking at the next world cup already with some of these picks

In saying that Ellison got in and he's 28

not happy to see nonu, weepu and williams etc, this is the perfect time to cut them loose. I for one would rather loose the odd game now blooding a few guys rather than get to 2014 and realise we need someone new

Nonu and co are proven at the next level that's why there in the squad.Why is everyone always bagging Nonu? How many players are as loyal as Nonu considering what he's been through since 2003 he didn't pack his bags and go overseas he stayed through the good times and bad....People need to just leave him alone,the coaches see something in him and thats good enough...

 

[Larksea]

Backs: Israel Dagg, Ben Smith, Cory Jane, Julian Savea, Richard Kahui, Conrad Smith, Tamati Ellison, Ma'a Nonu, Sonny Bill Williams, Dan Carter, Aaron Cruden, Beauden Barrett, Piri Weepu, Andy Ellis, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Aaron Smith
Forwards: Kieran Read, Victor Vito, Luke Whitelock, Brad Shields, Richie McCaw, Sam Cane, Adam Thomson, Sam Whitelock, Ali Williams, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Wyatt Crockett, Tony Woodcock, Charlie Faumuina, Ben Tameifuna, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Keven Mealamu, Andrew Hore



I'm a bit shocked at this squad, I can understand why Andre taylor hasn't been selected. It's hard to look past Dagg and Ben Smith who both have already been selected and are both in good form I thought maybe all three would be seelected... But no Messam? He's been super impressive for the chiefs and on defense I think he's pretty much the best 6 in NZ right now and also i think he's the one 6 who can add that physical edge that will be missed without Kaino in the squad. And regularly makes big tackles that stop the attacking teams momentum and wins turnovers.

Squad doesn't seem to make much sense? They have picked a number of young guys obviously to devalop towards the future yet the only hookers are old war hourses Hore and Mealamu??? At the very least Hika Elliot is the best linout throwing in NZ and should be there and the best hooker under 30 years old. Even as a chiefs supporter I wouldn't pick barlow over Perenara. And I'd have leonard over both of them and Weepu leonard's only been back from injury for 3-4 weeks now - still looks in great form, very experienced and only 27.

Picking Savea over Gear is actually something I would do but I didn't expect it to happen, though Gear made a shocker against the sharks the other week, as good a ball runner as he is he's not test leve in terms of his defense.

Bit shocked to see Shields, Luke Whitelock, Sam Sane but no Matt Todd at all??? At the very least Matt Todd is a well above average super rugby player, I dont think Shields or Luke Whitelock have even proved they are regular super rugby players yet. And what does that say to Nasi Manu? Manu is surely the best #8 behind Read & Vito and he's only like 23-24? And he's been producing good stuff for what two years now?

No Zac Guildford - still paying for his poor off field work in 2011. Zac is a class act but I think he will have to play the house down to get re-selected, he will need to play so well the selectors have no other choice but to select him - not going to be easy to do with so much wing tallent around NZ rugby... and other players should look at his situation and think if they value their carriers they need to keep their noses clean.

I'm not sold on Luke Romano but I guess he is an option with Boric out injured. I gues he is still fairly young, does this mean it's now too late for Clarke, Eaton or Donnelly? Though I'll never be suprised no highlanders locks make the All Blacks while Adam Thomson takes all the lineout ball for them. I would have gone for Broadhurst who I think is a young lock with genuine test potential. Though he hasn't had the chance to prove it this ear.

Sure have their options open with 6 props in the squad... Each week that rolls by Ben Tameifuna looks the real deal...

interestingly, you take 5-6 clear top all blacks Like McCaw, Carter, Woodcock, Dagg, SBW, Sam Whitelock, Conrad out of that squad and make a team to play this one:

1, Toby Smith
2, Hika Elltiot
3, Ben May
4, Tom Donnelly
5, Jason Eaton
6, Liam Messam (C)
7, Matt Todd
8, Nasi Manu
9, Brendon Leonard/Perenara
10, Tom Taylor
11, Zac Guildford
12, Ryan Crotty
13, Robbie Fruen
14, Sean maitland
15, Andre Taylor

I think the above would give that squad minus the stars a real run, it would even be stronger in some areas, only maybe only weaker in midfield and tighthead prop.

may mean there are issues with the selections or maybe just that the depth in NZ is fricken awesome I think it's a bit of both.

Edit: Changed my missed out player mid field, now actually think it's stronger in every way to a team from the 35 man squad (minus some of the clear top players).

 

[donmcdazzle]

I hate the Steve Hansen era already.

So he takes some absolute bolters out of nowhere (Whitelock, Shields) and then some old and washed up guys to balance it out (Williams, Weepu). Why not pick the guys who are, you know, in form and not washed up??!! Messam must be furious, wouldn't blame the guy if he goes overseas now. Has been the pick of the loosies for me this season and Luke Whitelock gets a look in ahead of him (who hasn't even had one good game for the Crusaders and wasn't exactly a standout at ITM cup). Romano at least has looked good at ITM level, and has his moments for the Crusaders i suppose so I'm not as shocked by that one.

Shields at least has shown some flashes of class, but I hardly think he's done enough of it to get a training squad spot. Weird to try and justify Whitelock and Shields but then leave out Andre Taylor. It's like they applied different selection criteria all over the show. Some guys are there on reputation, some on potential of having potential, and then some guys on form. And yet some guys with potential and form (Taylor, Perenara) have been left out.. Such a mess. Head scratching really.

 

[Larksea]

Messam's too short and is not really another option in the lineout his height works against him at International level.

Messam not being a lineout option is a myth not fact, no he doesn't take most of the lineout ball like Thomson or Vito do for their teams but when Messam does get called it's usually for Must win ball like close to their own goal line and he nails it almost every time. He's fast and has great hands, and tall enough with lifters. The fact the chiefs lineout is one of if not the best in the comp is proof enough of that.

it is a factor, but it shouldn't be in my view. And I'm not suprised no locks made the all Black Squad from wither the Highlanders or Hurricanes. How can you select locks from those teams when Vito and Thomson take all the lineout ball??? What it also means is that after the lineout Thomson and Vito are going to be stuck in a Ruck/Maul and not be where they should be as "loose forwards". Look at Josh Bekhuis... He should have been an All Black by now, he came on the scene young and had all the attributes. Everyone in all sectors would say "it's only a matter of time" but the reality is he will never make the All Blacks as long as Thomson is at the highlanders and taking all the line out ball. he's fantastic in the lineout but he's not a lock and he scores a lot of trys out wide but he's not a wing

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Training Squad:

UT: R Kahui, T Ellison, B Barrett
OB: I Dagg, B Smith, C Jane, J Savea
CT: C Smith, M Nonu, S Williams
FH: D Carter, A Cruden
HB: A Ellis, P Weepu, A Smith, T Kerr-Barlow
LF: R McCaw, K Read, A Thomson, V Vito, S Cane, B Shields, L Whitelock
SR: A Williams, S Whitelock, L Romano, B Retalick
PR: O Franks, B Franks, T Woodcock, C Faumauina, B Tameifuna, W Crockett
HK: K Mealamu, A Hore

Major talking points are the omission of Guildford, Taylor, Perenara, Messam, Todd, Hoeata, Donnely, Elliot and Coles. Of those guys, I was almost 100% sure that Guildford and Elliot would be in the squad, and Taylor, Messam, Todd, and one of Donnely and Hoeata I was around 80% sure we'd see them. As this is a 35 man squad we can basically assume the the careers of the older international guys omitted are over (Messam, Donnely) unless there is an exceptional run of injuries.

I'll start with the loosies, as that's the largest part of the team at the moment. Whitelock and Shields haven't played much Super Rugby (Whitelock has had a few runs, primarily off the bench, and Shields has been injured for quite a period of time), so have obviously been selected on potential. I am a big fan of Shields, so it's nice to see him in there, he's big and powerful. I think Whitelock's presence probably doesn't bode too well for Vito, if Read is injured Vito will have to play out of his skin. Cane looks to have won the race to be McCaw's successor over Todd and Braid, at least for now. It's interesting because Cane is a very similar player to McCaw, less of a fetcher at 7 than guys like Gill, Pocock and Brussouw.

Not many outside backs have been selected, with only two specialist wings (Jane and Savea). Ellison will probably be included in the 30 man squad if Kahui is injured, he's played very well but isn't particularly young. I think all the backs selected, bar some halfbacks, will be in the 30 man squad. I thought Guildford would be selected, and Taylor had a good chance too. Both are reasonably young. Halfback will be interesting, as Hansen originally said there would only be two in the main squad - so Smith, Kerr-Barlow and Weepu will be fighting it out for the last spot. KB won't make it, so it's probably between Weepu and Smith. I know who I'd choose. With Barrett in the squad, you won't need a goal kicking halfback.

In the tight forwards there are few surprises. I didn't expect to see two new locks, but that looks to be where they've gone. Both Retalick and Romano are great prospects though. Crockett will probably make the final squad if Faumauina isn't over his injury, but otherwise the tight forward pick themselves. Tameifuna is one for the future, he won't be in there just yet. No third hooker is stupid in a squad of this size. I am very surprised to not see Elliot in there.

Assuming that only players from this 35 man squad are selected in the squad for the Ireland tour, the squad will probably end up as:

UT: B Barrett*, R Kahui + T Ellison
FB: I Dagg, B Smith
WG: C Jane, J Savea*
CT: C Smith, M Nonu, S Williams
FH: D Carter, A Cruden
HB: A Ellis, P Weepu, A Smith* (yes, I've gone for three)
LF: R McCaw, K Read, A Thomson, V Vito, B Shields*, S Cane* + L Whitelock*
SR: A Williams, S Whitelock, B Retalick*, L Romano*
PR: O Franks, B Franks, T Woodcock, C Faumauina* + W Crockett
HK: K Mealamu, A Hore

That's a 14/16 split for the backs and forwards, with three guys on call by for injuries to aforementioned players. Quite a few new caps(*).

 

[donmcdazzle]

Messam not being a lineout option is a myth not fact, no he doesn't take most of the lineout ball like Thomson or Vito do for their teams but when Messam does get called it's usually for Must win ball like close to their own goal line and he nails it almost every time. He's fast and has great hands, and tall enough with lifters. The fact the chiefs lineout is one of if not the best in the comp is proof enough of that.

it is a factor, but it shouldn't be in my view. And I'm not suprised no locks made the all Black Squad from wither the Highlanders or Hurricanes. How can you select locks from those teams when Vito and Thomson take all the lineout ball??? What it also means is that after the lineout Thomson and Vito are going to be stuck in a Ruck/Maul and not be where they should be as "loose forwards". Look at Josh Bekhuis... He should have been an All Black by now, he came on the scene young and had all the attributes. Everyone in all sectors would say "it's only a matter of time" but the reality is he will never make the All Blacks as long as Thomson is at the highlanders and taking all the line out ball. he's fantastic in the lineout but he's not a lock and he scores a lot of trys out wide but he's not a wing

And also, since when was Luke Whitelock a lineout option? I mean if that's the reason to justify leaving out Messam then can we apply the same logic to Whitelock? Such rubbish that he was even in the discussion of making the squad let alone actually making it. He's the same as George, just a journeyman player who was awesome at age grade cause he went through puberty at age 12 and was bigger than everyone.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Apparently Tameifuna is seen as a hooking option. Because that worked out so well with Afoa/de Malmanche.

 

[Larksea]

I've actually been impressed by Luke so far, good for a 20-21 year old but no way has he earned even a 35 man squad spot. On George.. he was actually super impressive in his first couple of seasons, as injury cover for McCaw at the crusaders he was so good they didn't even seem to miss McCaw but he couldn't maintain that level. Shame really he went from being clear the 2nd best 7h in NZ to maybe 5th best. Though there seems to be a curse for players that sit behind Carter and McCaw at the crusaders. They never really kick on though they look like they should.

Luke and Shields are obviously in the mix as potential future test players, but it's far too early to say that. Surely they wont make the 30... maybe Hansen is building towards the 2019 world cup???

I dont like these selections because of the message it sends. Players who play their guys out and become one of the clear best in their position in super rugby get left out and others get in just because they are young and had a couple of ok games? Maybe selected straight from U20's form?

So much of it doesn't make sense lol O_O /panic

 

[admartian]

Still remiss about the non-ANdre Tylor pick. Sad to see Todd and Perenara get a chance (though they're still young and have plenty of chances left). But Messam must be thinking offshore right about now.

Same maybe for Bekhuis?

 

[Larksea]

I'm trying to figure out what a scrum would look like with a 134kg hooker

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Still remiss about the non-ANdre Tylor pick. Sad to see Todd and Perenara get a chance (though they're still young and have plenty of chances left). But Messam must be thinking offshore right about now.

Same maybe for Bekhuis?

I'm pretty sure Messam has extended his contract recently.

Bekhuis won't get selected while he's at the Highlanders...

 

[admartian]

I'm pretty sure Messam has extended his contract recently.

Bekhuis won't get selected while he's at the Highlanders...

Has he? That's good then. Always wanted to see him or Latimer become core All Blacks.

True about Bekhuis. Maybe the Blues then?

Though McCartney can't throw...

 

[donmcdazzle]

Luke and Shields are obviously in the mix as potential future test players, but it's far too early to say that. Surely they wont make the 30... maybe Hansen is building towards the 2019 world cup???

I dont like these selections because of the message it sends. Players who play their guys out and become one of the clear best in their position in super rugby get left out and others get in just because they are young and had a couple of ok games? Maybe selected straight from U20's form?

So much of it doesn't make sense lol O_O /panic

And even then it is so inconsistent, Taylor has had 4 or 5 outstanding games and still can't get picked. If you are going to pick young guys at least pick the ones who have started every week and who have had standout games. Whitelock and Shields have done a combined total of crap-all at this level, despite the potential they may or may not have.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Just some notes from the Hansen interview (everything is straight from the horse's mouth):

- There's still a big chance players from outside the 35 could make the 30, due to injuries or otherwise.
- Kahui selected as a specialist wing.
- Only 5 loosies will be in the squad (only one of the U20 guys/Messam and Latimer [both those guys are brought up by Hansen specifically] will be in the squad, alongside McCaw, Read, Thomson, Vito).
- Whitelock etc. selected basically just to get him in the environment, though still has a chance to be in the 30 man squad.
- Tameifuna is NOT a back up hooker at this stage.
- Ali Williams basically selected because the other looks are inexperienced.
- Not 'weak' at hooker, but we have an ageing hooker population.
- Perenara/Leonard both close to making it (Hansen makes it sound like Leonard probably would've made it had he not been out injured), Perenara is still young though.
- No mention of how many half backs there'll be - interviewer said three, Hansen didn't confirm/deny.
- Savea is a 'very good tackler' and his 'high ball catching has improved immensely this year'.
- Savea headed Gear off, he is the future. Gear/Guildford could come back in with Kahui's injury.