Get your bets in for the All Black Squad for the june tests

[TRF Mr Fish]

Faumauina sidelined for 4-6 weeks, so he's out of the tests.

 

[Tadginator]

Ridiculous squad. No consistency in selection criteria and reasoning. Messam is ten times the playe Luke whitleock will ever be. Savea deserves his spot but to only have two wingers is ridiculous in a squad of 35. Guildford should be in there.
Ali Williams has done nothing nor has Piri weepu. If you're picking on potential or form neither would be in there so he must be picking on history in which case why did he pick savea and Kerr Barlow. It is crazy and I don't like the look of this all blacks team

 

[Larksea]

Just some notes from the Hansen interview (everything is straight from the horse's mouth):

- There's still a big chance players from outside the 35 could make the 30, due to injuries or otherwise.
- Kahui selected as a specialist wing.
- Only 5 loosies will be in the squad (only one of the U20 guys/Messam and Latimer [both those guys are brought up by Hansen specifically] will be in the squad, alongside McCaw, Read, Thomson, Vito).
- Whitelock etc. selected basically just to get him in the environment, though still has a chance to be in the 30 man squad.
- Tameifuna is NOT a back up hooker at this stage.
- Ali Williams basically selected because the other looks are inexperienced.
- Not 'weak' at hooker, but we have an ageing hooker population.
- Perenara/Leonard both close to making it (Hansen makes it sound like Leonard probably would've made it had he not been out injured), Perenara is still young though.
- No mention of how many half backs there'll be - interviewer said three, Hansen didn't confirm/deny.
- Savea is a 'very good tackler' and his 'high ball catching has improved immensely this year'.
- Savea headed Gear off, he is the future. Gear/Guildford could come back in with Kahui's injury.

that has actually cleared things up, still a bit dodgy.
I knew Kahui was selected as a winger, with him being injured that will likely mean that Guildford gets the call up. Apparently Gear has signed to play overseas next year and that will have counted against him.
Shame about leonards injury, after the way he played in that first game of the year I knew an All Blacks recall was on the cards. Though I still think he should be there, he's put in more quality game time in just his ~4 games this season than Weepu has in all the games he has played combined. The Shame for Leonard and Messam is that the chiefs now have a Bye so they don't have a chance to come out and answer the selectors this weekend.

SBW situation gets interesting, it was the roosters who made him the big offer to return to the NRL but the roosters have recently signed two other fairly big names which may mean the SBW offer is off?? He's also got a massive offer from Japan but that will mostly take him off the radar in terms of world Rugby. The comp over there is obviously important to them but I don't think anyone else really takes it seriously. you Really need to be playing in Europe or Sanzar to be on the world stage and I don't think SBW will go for that. I think the more time drags on the more he is likely to stay. Winning the 12 jersey ahead of Nonu may seal the deal. Really on form it should be his.

 

[admartian]

Just some notes from the Hansen interview (everything is straight from the horse's mouth):

- There's still a big chance players from outside the 35 could make the 30, due to injuries or otherwise.
- Kahui selected as a specialist wing.
- Only 5 loosies will be in the squad (only one of the U20 guys/Messam and Latimer [both those guys are brought up by Hansen specifically] will be in the squad, alongside McCaw, Read, Thomson, Vito).
- Whitelock etc. selected basically just to get him in the environment, though still has a chance to be in the 30 man squad.
- Tameifuna is NOT a back up hooker at this stage.
- Ali Williams basically selected because the other looks are inexperienced.
- Not 'weak' at hooker, but we have an ageing hooker population.
- Perenara/Leonard both close to making it (Hansen makes it sound like Leonard probably would've made it had he not been out injured), Perenara is still young though.
- No mention of how many half backs there'll be - interviewer said three, Hansen didn't confirm/deny.
- Savea is a 'very good tackler' and his 'high ball catching has improved immensely this year'.
- Savea headed Gear off, he is the future. Gear/Guildford could come back in with Kahui's injury.

A couple of points, particularly the bolded ones:

- I think it's good that he's keeping his options open.
- Also, as we suspect, players like Whitelock etc are there for teh experience; and oldies/washed up are there for
- Weird that Temifuna is not considered at hooker yet there's no Elliot (but then again it's not like he's new to the AB environemtn therefore still has a chance to be picked based on the first point.
- The Savea pick (over Guildford, Gear, Wulf and potentially Taylor) was actually a good one. He shows the most X-factor out of all them and oozes potential. Plus picking wnigers early is not like picking 10s early.

Ridiculous squad. No consistency in selection criteria and reasoning. Messam is ten times the playe Luke whitleock will ever be. Savea deserves his spot but to only have two wingers is ridiculous in a squad of 35. Guildford should be in there.
Ali Williams has done nothing nor has Piri weepu. If you're picking on potential or form neither would be in there so he must be picking on history in which case why did he pick savea and Kerr Barlow. It is crazy and I don't like the look of this all blacks team

It's not actually as bad as it looks (not that it is horrible).

Again, more clarifications like the above posted will go even more towards getting the NZ public behind this squad.

that has actually cleared things up, still a bit dodgy.
I knew Kahui was selected as a winger, with him being injured that will likely mean that Guildford gets the call up. Apparently Gear has signed to play overseas next year and that will have counted against him.
Shame about leonards injury, after the way he played in that first game of the year I knew an All Blacks recall was on the cards. Though I still think he should be there, he's put in more quality game time in just his ~4 games this season than Weepu has in all the games he has played combined. The Shame for Leonard and Messam is that the chiefs now have a Bye so they don't have a chance to come out and answer the selectors this weekend.

SBW situation gets interesting, it was the roosters who made him the big offer to return to the NRL but the roosters have recently signed two other fairly big names which may mean the SBW offer is off?? He's also got a massive offer from Japan but that will mostly take him off the radar in terms of world Rugby. The comp over there is obviously important to them but I don't think anyone else really takes it seriously. you Really need to be playing in Europe or Sanzar to be on the world stage and I don't think SBW will go for that. I think the more time drags on the more he is likely to stay. Winning the 12 jersey ahead of Nonu may seal the deal. Really on form it should be his.

TBH, I think SBW is a good player - but nowehere NEAR close to the hype and how his fans see him.

But he is so concerned by being "popular" (World stage) which is what concerns his detractors (note, not haters - though that is ultimately what we get labelled as we don't hug his sacks).

If that's what he really wants, why doesn't he just go on the GC or the Kardashian show or something?

 

[nickdnz]

Not as annoyed by this squad as some, but there are aspects which annoy me. Leaving Andre Taylor I think is incredibly harsh. He's easily been the form fullback in my opinion and is still pretty young at 24. He must have no idea what he has to do to get in. Hope he has a blinding few Super Rugby games and NPC so he may make the EoYT.

As for some of the players selected, it does seem to be that it's a case of getting young players used to the enviroment early. Some players I think were ridiculious omissions such as Laim Messam, Andre Taylor, TJ Peranara, Jason Eaton/Tom Donnelly, Hika Elliot etc, but overall I don't mind the squad. I'll be more annoyed when they cut a crapload of these young new players, and only select out of form World Cup winners v Ireland. I'd love to see Savea, Cane, Tameifuna and Retallick make the final cut.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Nonu and co are proven at the next level that's why there in the squad.Why is everyone always bagging Nonu? How many players are as loyal as Nonu considering what he's been through since 2003 he didn't pack his bags and go overseas he stayed through the good times and bad....People need to just leave him alone,the coaches see something in him and thats good enough...

I'm not bagging them, I just think everyone needs to move on at some point and sometimes they hang around longer than they should do. Marshall hung around a season or two too long and kept getting picked on rep. All that does is **** of the next guy and stop them getting the experiece they need to step up when they have to.

Players international carrers should be managed by the coach and no the player, just because they are still eligible doesn't mean they should be there.

the way to insure the new world cup squad has the experience it needs to to get these guys out there now and i dont just mean for ten minutes here and there

 

[Dizzy]

I'm not bagging them, I just think everyone needs to move on at some point and sometimes they hang around longer than they should do. Marshall hung around a season or two too long and kept getting picked on rep. All that does is **** of the next guy and stop them getting the experiece they need to step up when they have to.

Players international carrers should be managed by the coach and no the player, just because they are still eligible doesn't mean they should be there.

the way to insure the new world cup squad has the experience it needs to to get these guys out there now and i dont just mean for ten minutes here and there

So with the omission of Ma'a Nonu, who would you have there? Jackson Willison?, Charlie Ngatai?, Robbie Fruean?

The All Blacks have always been about experience, which might be why we dominate world rugby on a consistant basis.

Ma'a Nonu has proved time and time again that he has the goods in an All Black jersey... But if you want to keep your opinion, then we wouldn't have had Cory Jane in the All Blacks for the World Cup because he had a crap Super Rugby season as did others.

These experienced players show exactly what they can do when they are in a Black jersey, and the inexperienced who have some outstanding performances at Super Rugby level usually falter in the All Black environment.

 

[admartian]

So with the omission of Ma'a Nonu, who would you have there? Jackson Willison?, Charlie Ngatai?, Robbie Fruean?

The All Blacks have always been about experience, which might be why we dominate world rugby on a consistant basis.

Ma'a Nonu has proved time and time again that he has the goods in an All Black jersey... But if you want to keep your opinion, then we wouldn't have had Cory Jane in the All Blacks for the World Cup because he had a crap Super Rugby season as did others.

These experienced players show exactly what they can do when they are in a Black jersey, and the inexperienced who have some outstanding performances at Super Rugby level usually falter in the All Black environment.

I'd actually give Fruean a go, but not dissappointed that he's been ommitted.

That's actually a good point drawing parallel to Jane regarding Nonu. While I DO buy into the fact that certain players are top notch when in the ABs despite poor form in Super Rugby or ITM; but I don't necessarily think Weepu can pull it off this year.

 

[Dizzy]

I'd actually give Fruean a go, but not dissappointed that he's been ommitted.

That's actually a good point drawing parallel to Jane regarding Nonu. While I DO buy into the fact that certain players are top notch when in the ABs despite poor form in Super Rugby or ITM; but I don't necessarily think Weepu can pull it off this year.

I'm all for giving Fruean a go as well, but not at the omission of Ma'a Nonu.
I think if Fruean had signed with the Blues instead of Nonu, he'd have a much harder time trying to get the ball rolling than Ma'a has so far. Nonu has a better all round game than most 12/13's going around NZ at the moment. Only problem is, he's in an unlucky environment right now. And I feel the same for Piri.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I'm all for giving Fruean a go as well, but not at the omission of Ma'a Nonu.
I think if Fruean had signed with the Blues instead of Nonu, he'd have a much harder time trying to get the ball rolling than Ma'a has so far. Nonu has a better all round game than most 12/13's going around NZ at the moment. Only problem is, he's in an unlucky environment right now. And I feel the same for Piri.

Nonu I can sort of sympathise with and I can see why they picked him, Weepu not so much.

 

[Dizzy]

Well in recent weeks I feel Weepu has shown glimpses of his old self. Surely it's not too hard to find it in yourselves to give the guy a break. Piri hasn't been THAT bad for the Blues.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Ma'a Nonu has proved time and time again that he has the goods in an All Black jersey... But if you want to keep your opinion, then we wouldn't have had Cory Jane in the All Blacks for the World Cup because he had a crap Super Rugby season as did others.

These experienced players show exactly what they can do when they are in a Black jersey, and the inexperienced who have some outstanding performances at Super Rugby level usually falter in the All Black environment.

and if we were playing a world cup this year then i would agree like i did when jane was selected last year....but we're not.

giving more caps to someone not in form and more than likely heading overseas before the next world cup is a waste

old dogs in form (Hore, C smith et al) great, use that experience

personally i would play one of our young first fives at second five outside Carter, thats how carter started and i think played a decent role in making him the player he is. Or Maybe Cruden 10 and carter 12, then with 30 left move carter in one and Barrett comes on at 12

 

[nickdnz]

and if we were playing a world cup this year then i would agree like i did when jane was selected last year....but we're not.

giving more caps to someone not in form and more than likely heading overseas before the next world cup is a waste

old dogs in form (Hore, C smith et al) great, use that experience

personally i would play one of our young first fives at second five outside Carter, thats how carter started and i think played a decent role in making him the player he is. Or Maybe Cruden 10 and carter 12, then with 30 left move carter in one and Barrett comes on at 12

I like the idea of chucking Cruden or even Barrett at 2nd 5/8th (like Carter was to Spencer and Mehrtens). I think people are waaaaay too quick to write off Daniel Carter. He's the best. Ever. He's still the best, and he's signed with us pretty much till the next World Cup when he'll be 33 (still young enough to play). Chucking Barrett or Cruden at 12 is fine with me, but Daniel Carter is not a great 12 anymore. He's got excellent vision, a great pass, can spot a gap and usually has a very reliable boot (though he's still recovering). There is no reason he can't be an amazing 10 for us for a few more years and he's earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

[donmcdazzle]

and if we were playing a world cup this year then i would agree like i did when jane was selected last year....but we're not.

giving more caps to someone not in form and more than likely heading overseas before the next world cup is a waste

old dogs in form (Hore, C smith et al) great, use that experience

personally i would play one of our young first fives at second five outside Carter, thats how carter started and i think played a decent role in making him the player he is. Or Maybe Cruden 10 and carter 12, then with 30 left move carter in one and Barrett comes on at 12

Barrett is so far away from being an international 12 it isn't funny. No, just no. His second position is fullback so put him there if you must but I would never want to see him playing at 12 at the moment. When he bulks up and sorts out his defence sure, but not now.

 

[Larksea]

I personally dont have much patients for weepu anymore. last year I saw him as a must have and critical to the All Blacks and for the most part he let me down.

Sure he was great against Argentina (we would have won anyway though) and he's had a few other great games over the last few years. He's the best 9 in the world when he's fit but we hardly ever see him fit.

and He almost lost us the world cup final. if it wasn't for the heroics of Donald and a few others that game could have been lost and I know I would have pointed the finger in weepu's direction. the goal kicks he missed and the poor general play... He was very very lucky. Honestly because of that I don't see him as an "automatic" selection anymore. And he hardly sets an example with his on and off fitness..... I dont understand what happened to his goal kicking after the Argentina game he was great then he couldn't hit one to save his life.

At best he's a special project because of his fitness and personality. I think in the past we have needed him. But now he's around the 4th/5th best 9 in NZ and we have awesome young talent coming through and a couple of other experienced harder working guys I just don't see a need for him anymore. I dont feel he's worth the extra attention.

I'd drop him and if he pull his finger out and set an awesome example and showed what he can actually do when he puts his mind and body to task I'd select him again later. But he needs to know the hard work comes before selection not after...

 

[nickdnz]

if it wasn't for the heroics of Donald and a few others

Oh ffs. Donald made a few tackles and got a relatively streight forward penalty. He did enough for us not to lose, but he was hardly exceptional.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Barrett is so far away from being an international 12 it isn't funny. No, just no. His second position is fullback so put him there if you must but I would never want to see him playing at 12 at the moment. When he bulks up and sorts out his defence sure, but not now.

thats the point though, its not about making him an international 12, its about making him (or someone else) a world beating 10, its about putting him in a position to see how its done and you cant do that from 15

you start them off when they have guys like smith and carter around them and then they move in one and you rebuild the centres.

 

[donmcdazzle]

thats the point though, its not about making him an international 12, its about making him (or someone else) a world beating 10, its about putting him in a position to see how its done and you cant do that from 15

you start them off when they have guys like smith and carter around them and then they move in one and you rebuild the centres.

Just because it worked with him I don't think that's the best way to develop our first five's. The only reason they did it with DC was cause he had fantastic defence so could handle it. Grant Fox, Mehrtens, Tony Brown, Carlos never played at 12. Barrett, at this point, would get shredded by someone like Jean DeVilliers or Adam Ashley Cooper/James O'Connor.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Oh ffs. Donald made a few tackles and got a relatively streight forward penalty. He did enough for us not to lose, but he was hardly exceptional.

to be fair that is pretty heroic for Donald!

 

[Gena_ZA]

Steve Hansen has named 11 uncapped players in his first squad as All Blacks rugby coach, favoring youth among 35 players who will attend training camps for June tests against Ireland.
Hansen, who succeeded Graham Henry as All Blacks coach after last year's Rugby World Cup, has included 21 Cup-winning players in the squad for the camps at Auckland from May 20 to 22 and Wellington from May 27-29.
The squad will be trimmed to 30 players on June 3, six days ahead of the first test of a three-match series against Ireland.
Hansen has named one of the youngest squads in recent All Blacks history as he seeks to rejuvenate the team after its World Cup victory. His squad includes six players who were members of last year's New Zealand under-20 team.
Several of the young players selected are in their first full seasons of Super 15 rugby.
They include 21-year-old Wellington Hurricanes flyhalf Beauden Barrett, who joins Dan Carter and Aaron Cruden among the squad's flyhalves; 20-year-old Waikato Chiefs flanker Sam Cane and 21-year-old Hurricanes backrower Brad Shields, 21-year-old Hurricanes winger Julian Savea - who has represented New Zealand at sevens - and 21-year-old Chiefs scrumhalf Tawera Kerr-Barlow.
Hansen has drafted a number of new tight forwards, including the Auckland Blues tighthead prop Charlie Faumuina, giant Chiefs prop Ben Tameifuna and locks Brodie Retallick of the Chiefs and Luke Romano of the Canterbury Crusaders.
Center Tamati Ellison has won a recall to the All Blacks squad after last playing for New Zealand in 2009. Ellison, who is the grandson of an All Black, returned to New Zealand to join to the Otago Highlanders this season after spending two years in Japan.
"We have two aims with the selection of the players for the camps," Hansen said.
"Our main aim is to begin to prepare a squad to win the series against Ireland and secondly, it gives us the opportunity to introduce and work with some younger, talented players in the All Blacks environment.
"In the wider training group we have a balance between proven test players, in-form Super Rugby players and some talented, young players.
"We will use the time in the camps to work on some of the protocols, expectations and disciplines that are needed to succeed in the All Blacks, plus it will also give us a little bit of training time to work on some new things which we hope to bring in for the tests against the Irish."
Hansen has retained confidence in World Cup All Blacks Piri Weepu, Keven Mealamu and Ali Williams despite their poor form for the Auckland Blues who are in 14th place after 12 rounds of the Super 15.
NEW ZEALAND SQUAD: Charlie Faumuina, Ma'a Nonu, Keven Mealamu, Piri Weepu, Ali Williams, Tony Woodcock; Sam Cane, Aaron Cruden, Richard Kahui, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Brodie Retallick, Ben Tameifuna, Sonny Bill Williams; Beauden Barrett, Cory Jane, Julian Savea, Brad Shields, Conrad Smith, Victor Vito; Daniel Carter, Wyatt Crockett, Israel Dagg, Andy Ellis, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Richie McCaw, Kieran Read, Luke Romano, Luke Whitelock, Samuel Whitelock; Tamati Ellison, Andrew Hore, Aaron Smith, Ben Smith, Adam Thomson.